prdctvsm Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 31 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said: china is capiutalist" "china is socialist" "china is communist" is liberal idealism China is capitalist is not idealism, it describes their means of production. They lifted millions of people out of starvation level poverty by servicing capitalist nations and becoming more capitalist themselves. Their current economic concerns are increasing domestic consumption, as iterated by Xi in the last plenary of the CCP. 33 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said: it has not had centuries of headstart building on top of slavery and imperialism like the US. yet somehow they avoid starting tons of wars All this tells me is you know nothing of Chinese history. 34 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said: this is why things like jack ma being controlled by the state rather than the state controlling him are so optimistic This tells me you have a tenuous grasp of the English language, since those two clauses mean the same thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 34 minutes ago, prdctvsm said: 32 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said: Yea, both of those posts illustrate what happens when the environment is ignored in pursuit of economic gain. The difference that China is like that everywhere, all year round, and it has been like that for a long time. The wildfires in California and the PNW are becoming annual, but they are limited in geography by comparison, and the government makes efforts to repair the damage (whereas in China it is left to people and the community). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, chenGOD said: China is capitalist is not idealism, it describes their means of production. They lifted millions of people out of starvation level poverty by servicing capitalist nations and becoming more capitalist themselves. Their current economic concerns are increasing domestic consumption, as iterated by Xi in the last plenary of the CCP. All this tells me is you know nothing of Chinese history. This tells me you have a tenuous grasp of the English language, since those two clauses mean the same thing. china is being led by their communist party, in that way they are socialist even if they have not achieved socialism yet. the US clearly had a head start on industrialization and modernization. and that last part is very clearly a typo not a tenuous grasp of the English language. such ungracious readings suggest a lack of attempts to read and comprehend on your part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 31 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said: china is being led by their communist party, in that way they are socialist 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braintree Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 I, for one, rip on Biden and US policy pretty frequently. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, chenGOD said: Yea, both of those posts illustrate what happens when the environment is ignored in pursuit of economic gain. The difference that China is like that everywhere, all year round, and it has been like that for a long time. The wildfires in California and the PNW are becoming annual, but they are limited in geography by comparison, and the government makes efforts to repair the damage (whereas in China it is left to people and the community). Indeed given that they are net exporters it is no surprise that such issues occur. The anti-China rhetoric of western media and this thread as one example is so imbalanced and lacking material analysis of global economics that crosses the border into pure anti-communist propaganda and needs some counterbalancing. If China became the dominant economic power and offshored its manufacturing to the US, the US would suffer from such problems and worse. Those problems have less to do with China in particular but rather industrial imperialist capitalism, a world economic system china claims to be attempting to transcend while the US is by its own admission wanting to maintain. how can china escape? socialism and communism. if this thread is merely shitting on china it's completely useless and pure propaganda am I a china shill? no. but in comparison to this thread and dominant western narratives it appears that way Edited March 31, 2021 by cyanobacteria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braintree Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 I'm sorry dude, but you have no goddamn clue what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, Braintree said: I'm sorry dude, but you have no goddamn clue what you're talking about. if you have enough time to write that post you have enough time to write a post saying the correct truth then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braintree Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said: if you have enough time to write that post you have enough time to write a post saying the correct truth then It's already been said in this thread. You just don't want to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 2 hours ago, cyanobacteria said: Indeed given that they are net exporters it is no surprise that such issues occur. No, it’s because China, despite having the advantage of industrializing after others, continued to use coal to fuel their industrialization when they could have been using nuclear and then more renewables. But coal is cheap... 2 hours ago, cyanobacteria said: am I a china shill? no Considering the material you’ve posted in this thread, this is gross and insulting. Im on my phone and don’t feel like putting too much into this, but let’s take some quotes from Xi’s major speeches (from Xinhua, which is a state-run media outlet, so you shouldn’t have any issues with me using them). Xi on democracy: Quote We must expand people's democracy by improving democratic systems, enriching forms of democracy, and creating more channels for the practice of democracy, and enabling broader, orderly political participation of citizens at all levels and in all domains. The reality: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/3/30/china-approves-overhaul-of-hong-kongs-political-system-reports Quote China has approved a sweeping and controversial overhaul to Hong Kong’s political system that will cut the number of directly elected seats in the territory’s mini-parliament and create a vett Xi on the environment: Quote Economic development should not be achieved at the cost of the ecology. The ecological environment itself is the economy. Protecting the environment is developing productivity. -- We shall protect ecosystems as preciously as we protect our eyes, and cherish them as dearly as we cherish our lives. The reality: https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/chinas-new-coal-power-plant-capacity-in-2020-more-than-3-times-rest-of-worlds-study Quote China put 38.4 gigawatts (GW) of new coal-fired power capacity into operation in 2020, according to new international research, more than three times the amount built elsewhere around the world and potentially undermining its short-term climate goals. Etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, chenGOD said: No, it’s because China, despite having the advantage of industrializing after others, continued to use coal to fuel their industrialization when they could have been using nuclear and then more renewables. But coal is cheap... is that true? about having options other than coal? i'm thinking of the 70s on and wondering if they had options for nuclear beyond paying a foreign country to build some nuclear power plants for them. i don't know what investing in china was like then. i'm sure they could've sorted getting a few nuclear power plants built but 50 or however many they'd need, would've been a tall order. i do know there were many engineering problems in china for very common things. things like brand new buildings with no elevators but with elevator shafts. lot's of anecdotes like this exist. people in the US were going to china back then on tours with groups etc. my dad helped put a couple together and showed us epic slide shows as kids. he said, back then, you'd fly into hong kong then on to mainland china. once you left hong kong your opportunity for any kind of western comfort food etc was done. it really was behind the curve. thinking about it now it's obvious they were only just starting to industrialize. back then.. if it wasn't 'made in USA' it was 'made in taiwan'. it wasn't for quite a while until 'made in china' started showing up. i wonder how much choice they had w/paths to take for energy. considering so many cities were full of the old china neighborhoods until very recently (some cities still have those older small ramshackle looking stretches of low rise buildings) anyway.. they all were heated with coal in old coal fired little furnaces and also they cooked with coal. i suspect there were turning points here and there for them to choose a different way though. once they got going and really generating wealth.. they were also spending like a $250 billion a year on infrastructure.. who knows what they spend now.. coal certainly was cheap. the pics of the coal fields are daunting. so huge. they go to the horizon. they seem to be investing massively in solar and renewables now though. more than anyone i think. they did go full industrial revolution though. i mean.. looked like turn of the century skies over london or east coast usa steel plants and shit. i think china will end up making the turn towards sustainability in a shorter overall time than the usa which has been gobbling up resources and shitting into the atmosphere for a hundred years. coincidentally.. bill gates' nuclear power start up that is aiming to build modern nuclear plants with multiple redundant safety systems and molten salt cores or whatever.. they were on track to build one in china when trump became president. one of the casualties of the trump trade war and derailing regulations etc was killing that nuclear power plant build by gates company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 hour ago, ignatius said: s that true? about having options other than coal? i'm thinking of the 70s on and wondering if they had options for nuclear beyond paying a foreign country to build some nuclear power plants for them. Yes, and the option was exactly that. Paying foreign countries to build them nuclear power plants. Canada built two for them which were up and running in 2002. I think the contract was signed in the early 1990s. China could have easily accessed loans from the world bank or IMF in the 80’s, or even earlier from the USSR to develop nuclear capacity. 1 hour ago, ignatius said: I think china will end up making the turn towards sustainability in a shorter overall time than the usa which has been gobbling up resources and shitting into the atmosphere for a hundred years Maybe. Time will tell, but they continue to build more coal plants than the rest of the world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 the country manufacturing most of the world's shit has high emissions, what a surprise. track the supply chains and instead determine the root source of the capital causing them to be generated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Little Helper Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 Zeff, thought of moving to China? Why don't you just go live there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said: the country manufacturing most of the world's shit has high emissions, what a surprise. track the supply chains and instead determine the root source of the capital causing them to be generated no one put china over their knee and said make factories. china is equally complicit in this relationship with the world.. to their benefit. china made itself what it is very consciously. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 26 minutes ago, chenGOD said: Yes, and the option was exactly that. Paying foreign countries to build them nuclear power plants. Canada built two for them which were up and running in 2002. I think the contract was signed in the early 1990s. China could have easily accessed loans from the world bank or IMF in the 80’s, or even earlier from the USSR to develop nuclear capacity. i know they had some nuclear plants.. i just wonder if they could've gotten enough up and running in time to meet the rising demand. coal was going to be part of the equation regardless. it was a different world then for sure. to be a fly on the wall and know why they went one way or another would interesting. those people who made a lot of those decisions then are dead for sure. i didn't know they were still building so many coal plants. that's fucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limo Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 hour ago, ignatius said: i didn't know they were still building so many coal plants. that's fucked. Yeah, same here. At the same time they're outlawing use of small coal furnaces and heaters in homes because they cause too much pollution. Must be two different departments or something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) edit: wrong thread Edited March 31, 2021 by cyanobacteria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 Unusual: Official Chinese television has invented a fake French journalist defending the regime against allegations of genocide against the Uyghurshttps://newsbeezer.com/argentinaeng/unusual-official-chinese-television-has-invented-a-fake-french-journalist-defending-the-regime-against-allegations-of-genocide-against-the-uyghurs/Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 (edited) interdasting Edited April 3, 2021 by cyanobacteria 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milkface Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 (edited) off the topic of china here, and in response to the above post: anti-communism is purveyed by fascists????? colour me shocked i wonder what adrian zenz thinks about jewish people.... https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1292893910973452289?lang=en Edited April 3, 2021 by milkface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 9 minutes ago, milkface said: off the topic of china here, and in response to the above post: anti-communism is purveyed by fascists????? colour me shocked i wonder what adrian zenz thinks about jewish people.... https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1292893910973452289?lang=en it would be funny if it wasnt real 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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