FM Synthesis (techniques, anecdotes)

[Lucas]

me too but I don't have Max. Should run on Max Runtime though?

[kanarie]

ok TX81Z should arrive today. started to do my homework yesterday and went through the manual before to go to bed. Still need to find a good programmer program. The TX81Z programmer looks good but I didn't see you have to pay after one month (not a lot though, 20$). There's also Ctrlr which looks good, but not dedicated to the synth.

Good news, congrats!

 

I could pm you a link to my (free but wonky) sequencer/ tx81z editor if you like.

[Lucas]

I'd be glad to give it a try kanarie, thanks for proposing!

[Guest skibby]

editor for TG77?

 

have soundiver, it doesnt want to recognise the midi interface.

[Guest skibby]

editor for TG77?

 

have soundiver, it doesnt want to recognise the midi interface.

 

forgot to try restarting soundiver... it found my equipment.

[Lucas]

weren't you involved in some tweaks on the Ctrlr panel for TX81Z Skibby? I think I recognized your previous WATMM avatar on the forum. This editor lacks some features (and also tends to overload the MIDI buffers of the synth very quickly) but it's nice to have it anyway. The TX81Z Editor for which I already provided a link seems great but it just works for 30 days before you have to pay, which I really don't want to right now.

 

@ Mesh Gear Fox : couldn't get your editor working so far because Midi Yoke ports doesn't show up in Max Runtime. I don't understand why but I'll try to fix that.

[Lucas]

@ Mesh Gear Fox : I solved the problem with MIDI Yoke (by installing another program of this kind because there seem to be problems with MIDI yoke on Windows 7) and I'm currently trying your Max editor. I think I like it even more than the Ctrlr programmer, which has a weird interface. Yours is compact and transparent. If I still were into Max I might want to make some personal tweaks on it. I might ask one of my roommates if he happens to have a version "lying around" on his hard drive if I continue to use your patch and care enough to improve it. Thanks a lot anyway!

[Guest skibby]

weren't you involved in some tweaks on the Ctrlr panel for TX81Z Skibby? I think I recognized your previous WATMM avatar on the forum. This editor lacks some features (and also tends to overload the MIDI buffers of the synth very quickly) but it's nice to have it anyway. The TX81Z Editor for which I already provided a link seems great but it just works for 30 days before you have to pay, which I really don't want to right now.

 

@ Mesh Gear Fox : couldn't get your editor working so far because Midi Yoke ports doesn't show up in Max Runtime. I don't understand why but I'll try to fix that.

 

yeah i went on the ctrlr forum and raised hell cause the panel didnt work :) then i changed the dropdown menu colors to look like the real display, and got rid of the chorus, which doesnt exist, and moved the algorithms over to that section. the trouble is a few different users did some tweaks and now theres sort of a fork for that panel. i guess Atom is the only developer over there. I've been trying to find a solution for the midi buffer problem, the problem does not exist on the (other, shareware) Tx81z Editor Program, so I know theres a way to throttle the amount of messages that end up being a deluge for the tx81z. As for ctrlr, Atom seems super cool and reasonable. I asked for a close tab button on the panels and he added it like a champ. I think what's really needed is some more documentation so there can be some more community contribution.

Edited November 30, 2014 by skibby

[chim]

I am a hopeless addict now

 

stumbling into big fucking ambient drones/chords/sounds like this is a religious experience

 

[Guest skibby]

i need some support about these god forsaken multistage envelopes. they make no sense at all.

[awepittance]

has anyone managed to send CC values to the knobs in Ctrlr? i tried it the easy way in Ableton using the configuration mode where it automatically duplicates an Ableton style knob on the panel, but i couldn't get it to work. I also tried just manually assigning CCs using the way it instructs you to on the ctrlr website, no luck either.

[kausto]

i need some support about these god forsaken multistage envelopes. they make no sense at all.

 

welcome!

you have to learn to navigate by ear

also, you can do, for example, claps and so on with such envelopes

i don't like them too, btw

[Guest skibby]

what i need to know is the speed of the envelope sections. and why for example, does the sustain have a 'rate' and how such a rate could possibly influence whats going on with sustain, which to me means 'holding down the key' or 'note is currently on.' the TG envelope appears to change rate when you change the level of the 3rd or so breakpoint, so the graphical representation at least in the case of the TG77 is a bit rough around the edges since changing a level shouldn't change a rate, but it appears to.

 

also to rephrase my earlier question, why does the sustain stage have a rate in Yamaha FM synths? does not compute.

 

if i knew what the envelope breakpoints and durations were, then i would be able to use the envelope, but right now, its like im practicing voodoo because the envelope shape does not marry what is being represented and what is being experienced as sound over time.

Edited December 6, 2014 by skibby

[Guest skibby]

i just want to know how much time is elapsing between breakpoints, minimums and maximums in milliseconds. can't find useful documentation of that. so i guess i need to perform all those tests.

 

here's the data i want: "the value of 63 in the envelope rate corresponds to (x)milliseconds"

Edited December 6, 2014 by skibby

[th555]

I am a hopeless addict now

 

stumbling into big fucking ambient drones/chords/sounds like this is a religious experience

 

What synth is this?

[chim]

FM8

[rst]

i just want to know how much time is elapsing between breakpoints, minimums and maximums in milliseconds. can't find useful documentation of that. so i guess i need to perform all those tests.

 

here's the data i want: "the value of 63 in the envelope rate corresponds to (x)milliseconds"

 

you can't, bc "rate" in yamaha speak is a unit of speed, not duration. look a few pages back.

[b born droid]

I am a hopeless addict now

 

stumbling into big fucking ambient drones/chords/sounds like this is a religious experience

 

What are the amp (or filter) envelopes on that bad boy?

[Guest fiznuthian]

 

I am a hopeless addict now

 

stumbling into big fucking ambient drones/chords/sounds like this is a religious experience

 

What are the amp (or filter) envelopes on that bad boy?

 

 

haha, i'm glad you asked this.. I was considering punching in the patch and seeing what it sounds like. Damnit chim, you tease!

[psn]

https://yamahasynth.com/index.php?option=com_easydiscuss&view=post&id=573&Itemid=851

 

[Guest fiznuthian]

Oh my god! That looks awesome! I like that Yamaha has a forum and is engaging with their customers too..

I'm considering maybe entering the world of hardware synths, and while subtractive is cool there's more mystery to FM so it'd be nice just to get one right out the gate.

[chim]

 

I am a hopeless addict now

 

stumbling into big fucking ambient drones/chords/sounds like this is a religious experience

 

What are the amp (or filter) envelopes on that bad boy?

 

 

glad you asked

 

at a mate's place but i will post as soon as i get home

[Guest skibby]

skibs - patience! no hardware synth of that time is going to give you envelopes is ms, imagine all the button pushing that would take.

 

it's not important anyway, use your ears to get a feel for the speeds

 

and the rate probably only seems like it is changing with the breakpoint cus you alter the angle of the envelope making it more or less steep. consider drawing a line from 1 (max) to 0.2 and then to 0 with 200ms between each point. now change that .2 to .8 with the same time. it'll sound like it is taking longer to decay but really only the shape of the decay has changed

 

as for the 'sustain rate' thing you are taking about, it really means how long it will take to get from the previous breakpoint to the sustain one.

 

does this help?

 

every little bit helps. its just a tedious process to edit the envelopes from the beginning if i dont know what all the different loads of various stages of the envelope are for. i can only understand adsr right now, i haven't a clue why someone would need a hadxysr1r2, and those extra breakpoints are in the way of my creating basic shapes i want. i just want a sound to start and either fade out or not fade out. i do understand the tg77 having loop points which is cool but its hard to understand. i'm trying to learn the tg77 at this time. i do have this problem where i can hear the first release, but i dont hear the second release. i have no idea why there are two separate releases in the tg77, that just seems evil.

 

 

 

https://yamahasynth.com/index.php?option=com_easydiscuss&view=post&id=573&Itemid=851

 

 

i would like that very much, although i havent jumped on the minibrute bandwagon so to speak. i'd be happy with an fs1r mk2.

Edited December 7, 2014 by skibby

[sweepstakes]

Free-point envelopes are frigging brilliant and are one of my fave things about FM7/FM8. Being able to loop between arbitrary points is like having a drawable LFO, and being able to automate points individually is also a great avenue for expression and experimentation. These features in an envelope make it almost like a built-in sequencer with slides, if that gives you some clues on uses for it. For example, you can create polyrhythms by making envelopes for each operator with different lengths of the same multiple.

[sweepstakes]

This does take away some of the immediate tweakability, although it adds more of a different variety. As always, there are workarounds - maybe try crossfading between 2 modulators with different envelope settings. In Max, you can actually crossfade between different settings of the curve~ object which is pretty sexy for this kind of thing.