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2020 US Election (vote biden pls ffs)


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Of course you can, silly.

Also, I hope you realize that if Bernie will be the next president, he won't be able to do all (or even any) of the stuff he says he likes to do. This is not a democratic process to elect a new dictator. You get that, right?

Btw, I trust on the primaries producing the best candidate to run against Trump. Simply because it's a numbers game. The one who convinced the most people to support him/her, is the best. Biggest support in the primaries will likely lead to the biggest support in the general. Sure, there are always black swan scenarios. But I'm really not interested in getting my head around all possible and unlikely scenarios. 

And when it comes to policies... no need to explain the current state of Washington. The less you expect, the better your prediction of the outcome. Who or what will break the Washington deadlock... beats me. I don't expect a change in 2020, tbh. 

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I don't know what you're all complaining about . Under Trump we have had ten hours of studio releases from Ae and something like 30 hours of soundboards, as well as the best aphex music since the

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You can't argue against any of these points and neither can anyone else.

do you have polling data and all the issues you named? preferably on state level, as opposed to national level. without knowing the data, i can be fairly sure there's a lot of variation. implying there's plenty people arguing against. you might disagree with their reasoning. but that doesn't really matter here, does it?

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afterburner: but i do agree with you if you really meant to say that nobody could change your opinions on these issues. yeah, that's true i guess.

 

?

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Somehow you responded to my post twice and both times responded to something I never said, and also didn't actually answer the question implied by "please proceed"

Anyway, if you're going to personally attack me and pretend like I don't change my mind on issues, you're wrong because I really want you to try to change my mind.  If I'm wrong, I want to know it.  But I ain't

Edited by Zeffolia
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Things that sound great (Bernie's many ideas) are less popular with real voters than social media makes it seem. He really made things awkward for the dems by using the word "socialism". A really stupid idea, even. 

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Yeah. If Biden keeps his head cool while other candidates keep on attacking him, I'll give him the best chance of winning the primaries and the election. I'm assuming a large part of the electorate just want the hysteric nonsense to stop. Whether it's Trump creating chaos, or a bunch of progressives calling for the proverbial revolution. Even if bigger and bigger crowds are drawn towards the extremes nowadays. I still believe in a silent majority with a more moderate outlook on life.

Haven't seen last nights debate, but the first headlines I've seen seem to give Biden positive marks when it comes to dealing with all the attacks. To me, that will be the key to victory.

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3 hours ago, Candiru said:

Things that sound great (Bernie's many ideas) are less popular with real voters than social media makes it seem. He really made things awkward for the dems by using the word "socialism". A really stupid idea, even. 

Agree that introducing the term "socialism" was wrong, especially as what Bernie Sanders talks about is social democracy, not socialism. Every political scientist would agree on that

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As an ignorant outsider I just can't see any reality where Trump doesn't get reelected. Maybe it's because I watched The Great Hack recently and it made me really cynical about elections but from here I can't see a credible opposition candidate. How's it feel over the pond? Does it seem realistic that Trump will get ousted?

I feel like his rise and presidency has brought together so many toxic elements of American society (and abroad) that the stink of his reign won't be gone for a good while after he goes anyway.

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1 hour ago, Blir said:

How's it feel over the pond? Does it seem realistic that Trump will get ousted?

 

Grim, it feels fucking grim. Just the fact that we even have to worry that he's going to get re-elected is troubling enough. Realistically, he should be polling closer to 0%. No one with a lick of goddamn sense should be voting for this guy. But nope, there's 40% or so of our 'merican brothers that have been tricked into thinking he's the answer to all their problems...

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1 hour ago, Blir said:

I feel like his rise and presidency has brought together so many toxic elements of American society (and abroad) that the stink of his reign won't be gone for a good while after he goes anyway.

That's the thing, the stink was always there, he just lifted the lid and kept it open. There's going to have to be a reckoning with a lot of major tenants of American society: the military industrial complex, the prison industry and police state, corporate hegemony, complete lack of comprehensive and feasible social safety nets. You know how people point out that before Reagan the US had capital gains taxes up to 70% and even 90% under Eisenhower - that's not so much a plea to more compassionate neoliberal polices under moderate Republicans and Democrats as it is a reality check of just how much even flawed institutions of the past have been completely gutted.

Democracy is fragile and the US has been unique in the fact that despite it's storied history of injustices and a civil war we've never had a military coup, revolution, a dictatorship or authoritarian take power indefinitely via state of emergency or some other major constitutional failing. But that system has been eroded greatly and Trump could very well be the prototypical authoritarian right in the US would gladly usher in, because corporations literally have no qualms with such a regime. They don't in China, Turkey, UAE, Brazil, Thailand, etc. 

Perhaps it's more apt for Dems to harden at 2024 with clear leftist policies but regardless I feel like Biden and many other moderates are handicapping themselves too much by walking on eggshells rhetorically and proposing weak centrist policies. I know Sanders won't actually be able to implement medicare for all as soon as he gets in office but it's much more likely he'd be able to compromise on something from that position versus literally proposing what are essentially moderate GOP policies. Obama tried to work from the middle and they called him a socialist and opposed everything he did anyway. It's not naivety that draws people to Sanders, it's his overt honestly and boldness to point out how much Republicans, establishment Dems, and corporate interests work against the 99% of this country. 

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5 hours ago, Candiru said:

Things that sound great (Bernie's many ideas) are less popular with real voters than social media makes it seem. He really made things awkward for the dems by using the word "socialism". A really stupid idea, even. 

I think they need to just sell it better, and not just pointing to Scandinavia. Australia has social democratic programs. Israel was a full blown socialist democracy and had hard left factions for decades. Literally every other country in the world has universal health care. Universal Basic Income (UBI) is actually touted by libertarians and leftists alike, albeit for different reasons. The US is crippled by it's historic efforts to misunderstand socialism.

Socialist efforts in the US literally gave us the majority of our labor rights. The biggest armed resurrection in US history after the civil war was literally made up of self-described redneck miners against corporate shrill law enforcement entities in West Virginia. Socialism was not always a dirty word in the US. In fact during WW2 communism wasn't either, out of propaganda necessity. Decades long misinformation post-Red Scare by Dems and the GOP alike have completely warped political terms and basic ideological understanding in the US. Hell, even I was not fully aware of the basic history of Marxism and the varied and nuanced differences within leftist ideologies until late high school and college. I remember being embarrassed along with fellow undergraduates in a upper division class when our TA asked us if we knew the difference between communism and socialism and none of us could articulate what they were.

The Dems also need to stop fucking pandering to CNN and MSNBC which banks off enlightened centrist horseshit and still, STILL gives Trump and the GOP too much "fair time" in terms of coverage. Even NPR is normalizing the administration. They're not calling out far-right shootings out of caution. They're playing into the "what about Anitifa" bullshit so much so that the FBI and other law enforcement agencies are training for hypothetical "Antifa terrorism" despite the fact that overt fascist, neo-Nazis, and right-wing zealots are perpetrating virtually all domestic terrorist attacks.  

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42 minutes ago, zero said:

Grim, it feels fucking grim. Just the fact that we even have to worry that he's going to get re-elected is troubling enough. Realistically, he should be polling closer to 0%. No one with a lick of goddamn sense should be voting for this guy. But nope, there's 40% or so of our 'merican brothers that have been tricked into thinking he's the answer to all their problems...

Yah, pretty much this. My fear is two-sided:

1) Trump loses the election, a Dem gets in office, is unable to really get anything done d/t makeup of Senate/House, but the economy starts to tank (d/t policies being implemented now) which causes massive distrust/a hard swing to the right in 2024 OR
2) Trump wins the election, continues to implement policies damaging to our nation as a whole. We continue our slide into a fascist state. 

Wife just drew my attention to the fact that the Trump administration quietly moved to roll back definitions of domestic violence to 1970's era definitions earlier this year. For no stated reason. They just did it. I don't even want to understand why you would do that because it seems like then I have to believe that some people are just fucking evil. 

Think I mentioned it here earlier but there was a Trump rally in my town last month (this is where the "send them home" chant came from). The vehemence is frightening (particularly as a minority). What was more frightening was the atmosphere around here in the weeks following. It was like people were emboldened to be just a little more open about their feeling about "(fill in the blank)s". 

Trying hard to take a long view and realize that worst case scenario is still ok (we descend into a fascist state where millions toil away in a 1984-esque dystopian wasteland leading into an inevitable implosion as a species|it's fine, we weren't that important in the grand scheme of the universe anyway).

In the moment tho, pretty, yeah, grim.

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I'm seeing a trend in this thread that a lot of you think that Trump will win because the "common American" is more right leaning than most. Let me remind you guys that HRC won the popular vote in 2016. Trump won because of gerrymandering and how the electoral college works. His base is not the "common American."

Democrats took the house back last year, and I think there's a lot of momentum there. As long as Democrats show up to vote, we have a good chance at winning.

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Democrats took the house because they went a bit more centrist in the right areas.

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However you view them on the political spectrum is irrelevant. The fact is that they're incensed and getting involved.

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No I’m talking about the party’s overall strategy for the midterms. Most of the candidates they put out there were not like AOC. 

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I think you both make a good point.

Getting people involved and voting was key. But also the sensitivity of the different candidates towards their local electorate. Where they were on the political spectrum. Or rather, where they were on local issues. 

In the run-up to the midterms I remember dems having discussions about their strategy in terms of "should we broaden the tent and allow for more conservative voices ( eg in the context of social issues), or should we stick to our principles and keep certain ideas out of our party?".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember they choose to broaden the "democratic tent" to also allow candidates with less common (conservative) ideas if it would help getting more democratic seats. And the focus was put on local issues instead on the larger national themes. With healthcare being an important exception, btw. That's basically the one issue which plays out similarly in a local and a national setting. But that local focus was important to get people to vote back then. If I remember correctly. 

So my guess is, they both went hand in hand.

And the strategy which should work on a national stage is a difficult one. As the part of the electorate which could be considered more on the extremes of the political spectrum tends to be more actively involved, I believe. But the difference will be made in getting the center to be involved as well. That's where the swing voters are. But if you go for the middle, you will lose the extremes.

This might be mitigated by candidates pairing up during the general election however. Like a Biden/Warren ticket. Or a Harris/ Sanders ticket.

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4 hours ago, zero said:

Grim, it feels fucking grim. Just the fact that we even have to worry that he's going to get re-elected is troubling enough. Realistically, he should be polling closer to 0%. No one with a lick of goddamn sense should be voting for this guy. But nope, there's 40% or so of our 'merican brothers that have been tricked into thinking he's the answer to all their problems...

kinda reminds me of the tower of babylon and how everyone was trying to build this tower to reach up to heaven then suddenly everyone spoke a different language and couldn't communicate what to do so the project was abandoned.

in a similar fashion- this is where we are as a country (perhaps even world) with so-many different opinions and divisions we can no longer even agree on a simple objective: is trump better or worse for us as a society? do we impeach him or not? do we build a wall or not? did russia interfere with our elections or no? can transgender people use the bathroom of the gender they identify with or not? are you racist if you wear a MAGA hat or just a god-loving patriot?

one thing you can bet your bottom dollar on though is that in america, you can just be hanging out in a diner and "someone could just walk past you while behind you a guy has his arm around his wife while another guy is wearing suspenders. "

 

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So as I mentioned in the other thread. What would happen if Trump loses but he refuses to accept the count and his whole team just straight up refuse to leave the Whitehouse?

@joshuatxuk I feel you might know what the real procedure might be to a POTUS that refuses to give up power.

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There is no procedure.  Procedure wasn't created because it hasn't happened yet.  The executive branch would have to decide where its allegiance sits, the constitution or the President.  The constitution says the allegiance should be with the constitution not the President, so if they didn't remove him from office they would be failing to act upon their constitutional duty.  In practice it's all based on physical force at that point and the Trump administration would have to be arrested.

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12 minutes ago, hello spiral said:

Yeah those were my thoughts. But my guess is the police force *and* the army probably have more pro-Trump peeps than anti...

This might be a reason more liberals should be in favor of the 2nd Amendment.  I've been warming up to it lately.  It's the only way to defend yourself against a rogue executive branch.  Even the legislature + judiciary can't overpower the executive, so citizens would have to in that scenario and it would be their constitutional duty to do so

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8 hours ago, Candiru said:

Democrats took the house because they went a bit more centrist in the right areas.

True, but they also went more left in others and those centrist pick ups were often in GOP held districts. AOC replaced a old school established Dem in her district. Soc Dems won local and municipality districts including a few in Houston, TX. I do buck with a hardline leftists and think there is merit in moderate Dems running in strategic places. Sinema, Tester, and Jones in the Senate are good examples.

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  • chenGOD changed the title to 2020 US Election
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