spring reverb tanks

[joshuatxuk]

For the most part I'm someone very much satisfied with software and digital solutions for effects, but there are a couple exceptions with hardware I want to eventually acquire, and both are quite expensive and/or rare. One is a Roland Space Echo tape delay unit, the other is a vintage spring reverb, specifically a Fisher SpaceXpander K10, a tube-driven unit which King Tubby made famous. It produces a long, spacey, almost water-drop sounding delay to percussion hits that is understandably hard to emulate with digital effects. I've also gathered this is something of an ironically unintended sound of early reverb units.

 

Here's a spacexpander in action:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOi4hPvjYr0

 

Anyway, in the meantime...I seem to be hitting on a couple alternatives:

 

1. A company called Accutronics makes fairly inexpensive replacement tanks for guitar amps with spring reverb units. They have 3+ springs and single RCA jacks in and out. Has anyone every messed with these or built their own? I'm wondering if I can route one in and out with my audio interface alone (and back into my DAW). Or, as I am assuming, is some sort of amplifier/power source needed in-between or a custom unit to control the parameters or the signal? (If I keep typing speculative questions about electronics I'll just spew more ignorance...halp!)

 

2. I find a good VST in the meantime - looking here and elsewhere turned up kind of dry (pun intended) - dead links, unsatisfactory plugins or reaktor patches I can't use.

 

3. I use an cheap vintage 60s or 70s mixer with a built-in spring reverb. I've seen a couple on craigslist and ebay, might be the easiest solution as they are powered and have 1/4 jacks. Another more roundabout solution is finding a stereo component called a "reverberation amplifier" from the 60s or 70s, a Sansui RA-500 being an example.

 

Welcome to any suggestions and insights!

[SCONES TO DIE FOR]

I bought one of these for $60. It's a Tapco (later became Mackie).

 

Kinda noisy which is to be expected. Sounds great with a tube amplifier.

 

 

 

It's probably not too hard to find a standalone spring reverb unit on craigslist or somewhere. I saw this one the other day:

 

http://eugene.craigslist.org/msg/3330034939.html

 

I used to have one kind of like that in the '90s but lent it to someone and never got it back.

[DerWaschbar]

I see those Fisher units sell fairly regularly on ebay for around $200, not sure how that works with your wallet.

 

I'm pretty sure you'd need something to drive the signal into those Accutronics tanks, but I'm no expert. Maybe the old mixer is the way to go? Often you can find old spring reverbs gutted from organs and etc. for not too crazy a price.

[kakapo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHoFHoUb980

 

Doepfer also do a spring reverb module.

[Guest chunky]

got a fostex and i really like it, though it aint a dub type of reverb

i always wanted the squarepusher type of reverb but i couldnt find the right gadget

these days i record stuff dry

if you buy one of those old reverbs you probably want to check it aint rusted and shitty inside and out

akg reverbs are supposed to be fragile

there are tonnes of websitesthat say how to make diy spring/plate reverbs

wonder why nobody's started a company making custom reverbs? cant be that expensive to make................

[DerWaschbar]

Zerotronics makes some nice looking ones, with options for different springs/lengths of decay. Not unreasonable prices, but not cheap either.

 

I've got the first gen Vermona Retubeverb, which is pretty nice. It took me a little while to get to know it, but now I love it.

[ZoeB]

1. A company called Accutronics makes fairly inexpensive replacement tanks for guitar amps with spring reverb units. They have 3+ springs and single RCA jacks in and out. Has anyone every messed with these or built their own? I'm wondering if I can route one in and out with my audio interface alone (and back into my DAW). Or, as I am assuming, is some sort of amplifier/power source needed in-between or a custom unit to control the parameters or the signal? (If I keep typing speculative questions about electronics I'll just spew more ignorance...halp!)

 

Accutronics was bought out by Belton in 2009. Belton also make spring reverbs, including the tank used by the Doepfer A-199 module. (As you point out, this has three springs and standard RCA / phono jacks.) You probably would want to buy or make some kind of electronics board that does what the non-tank part of the A-199 does, amplifying the signal, controlling the feedback loop (even letting you insert arbitrary effects into it), and adding a filter to compensate for the mids being not too well represented by the springs. So yes, you'll probably need a power source. The springs are very quiet as they're relying on (invisibly small) physical movement to reverberate the sound.

[ryancolecreate]

A preamp + a matrix mixer ought to do it right? I really want to build a matrix mixer. It would be such a sweet ambient tool. For those unfamiliar: http://sound.westhost.com/project129.htm

 

Seems like one would be right at home in a modular setup. You can even alter that schematic to be DC offset for cv signals! :D

[Guest chunky]

vermona retube verb, is that what you used on the soundcloud tracks?

[DerWaschbar]

vermona retube verb, is that what you used on the soundcloud tracks?

Yeah, I think it's on all of them. I usually just use it on lead sounds though. If you want I can dig around on my old computer and export some isolated examples of it...

[Amen Warrior]

Hi,

I picked up a reverb/digital delay rack unit for £15 a couple of years ago. Didn't realise it was spring until i got it home and tried it out. Google doesn't return anything about it really, which is why i think i got it so cheap. From the mid 80s i think, a company called JSH (not familiar with them). Anyway its noisy, dirty, unsubtle and sounds absolutely beautiful :) i use it every single time i make music.

My point is you can get some massive bargains, just keep your eyes peeled and dont be tempted to drop loads of cash on the 'legendary' models. There are loads out there.

 

This tune has some 202 and 303 going through it from 1.127

http://soundcloud.com/nathan_firman/charlies-theme

Quite poorly mixed but you get the point. I think 202 / 101 sounds lovely through a spring.

[ganus]

I have a Conn organ (analog) that has a spring reverb that sounds pretty damn similar to the one in the first post, but for some reason the line-in modification I tried to do with it failed, and it still only works with the sounds generated by the organ. I'll have to give it another shot, because I am dying for some real reverb on my tracks (other than the occasional bit of room reverb that I use)

[LimpyLoo]

I have an old Sunn 4-channel mixer...it has spring reverb

 

 

I have big big plans for it...it's gonna get sidechained via FMR RNC and have its very own channel on all of my future Tascam 388 recordings

[psn]

A few more options:

http://www.musictoyz...dals/vanamp.php

 

 

 

http://www.soundonso...everbulator.htm

 

http://www.effectsda...del/demeter/rv1

[LimpyLoo]

So what I meant to say in my previous post (but didn't, making it look like a weird brag) is that you should just drop $40 on an old mixer.

[theburglar]

If you own a cabinet w/ a PSU you should look into the doepfer a-199.

[Guest kokeboka]

I was going to go to guitar land and mention van amps and demeter, but psn beat me to it. I haven't tried one of those but much like the Fulltone Tape Echo (which is crazy expensive), the build quality is said to be outstanding. There's some variety in guitar pedals for both reverb and delay emulation - you can pick an Electroharmonix Holy Grail reverb for about $90 or a Danelectro Spring King for about the same amount, which is an unexpensive option (especially if you go 2nd hand).

 

I use a Holy Grail (digital) and a Deluxe Memory Man (a analog bucket brigade delay with built in chorus and vibrato) in my guitar pedalboard. I like to use the delay for mixing purposes as well because it sounds lush, but I wouldn't use reverb guitar pedals in general for mixing. They're designed to work with an amplifier so I'd probably put a cheapo small guitar amp after it, and mic it up for a grittier, more lo-fi sound. My guess is that a decent old spring tank from ebay will sound better than this, though.

 

The VST I use for spring reverb emulation in mixing is from Softube - it's convincing and it gives you some interesting controls, but it lacks that element of outrageousness you get from the real deal.

[joshuatxuk]

Thanks so much for all the feedback and ideas! I feel like replying to all 16 posts personally, each one has been helpful. Lot of clarification on the accutronics/belton tanks and how they are used, and likewise I now see I have quite a few "new" hardware options. I've seen older units like the Furman RV-1 and Roland spring reverb racks on ebay and they are sold fairly often. Sure enough a Fisher went on ebay a couple days ago, it's already up to 150+ w/ shipping. Honestly, I also feel like I need hash out more music before feel like I "deserve" one. I have more time than money.

 

At this point I'm going to go with an old vintage mixer or stereo reverberation amplifier. I'm confident it will do the job and I know I can acquire one from craigslist or ebay for less than $30, maybe 40 max. It'd be cool having an "unique" effects unit to boot. As I mentioned earlier it's a very specific sound I seek for percussion elements mostly and considering I don't mess with hardware yet, it'd be a good stepping stone for me personally and less daunting than something like the spaceXpander anyway.

[LimpyLoo]

I would say the more subtle you plan to use it, the less you need to worry about how amazing it is.

[joshuatxuk]

I would say the more subtle you plan to use it, the less you need to worry about how amazing it is.

 

Exactly.

 

So I've more or less ended my hunt. Bit of searching on Ableton forums and I found that the Resonator effect pitched low on Ableton Live does the job just fine, and I tweak it or add reverb from elsewhere from there as needed, again almost exclusively for percussion. As for a real spring reverb, again an old mixer or reverberation amplifier, I'm keeping my eyes open. I've seen plenty of vintage stereo reverberation amplifiers on ebay, and the older ones (Sansui RA-500/700, Pioneer SR-202) have spring tanks.

 

http://eugene.craigslist.org/msg/3330034939.html

 

I used to have one kind of like that in the '90s but lent it to someone and never got it back.

 

Likewise, it looks like Fisher K-10 spacexpanders pop up all the time, so I can happily wait.

[sergeantk]

Funny I run into this thread, ive been planning on purchasing one, probably tomorrow. cant wait

[marf]

spring break reverb tanks

[joshuatxuk]

Funny I run into this thread, ive been planning on purchasing one, probably tomorrow. cant wait

 

nice, what kind?

 

spring break reverb tanks

 

throw some bling on dat spring reverb

 

[sergeantk]

 

Funny I run into this thread, ive been planning on purchasing one, probably tomorrow. cant wait

 

nice, what kind?

I'm not sure which one yet, there's a bunch on amazon really cheap but I'm afraid of ordering a hunk of shit

 

hows something like this look? here

[Guest A/D]

huh! hard to find any info on them. It might be a hunk of shit but it would at least be a very cheap hunk of shit!

 

I would guess these are at best hard to use. No controls whatsoever, no power (? how does this work). Maybe they are for a special application that I don't know about.

 

Please post if you get these.