i may have a serious problem with women

[vamos scorcho]

Kind of a blog post. Whatever!

 

OK I don't know to what degree the word "serious" in the title can be taken as a joke, "ha ha," or not, but here goes:

 

There is a girl in one of the classes I'm taking who I am at least slightly interested in. I am aware of her. If I am honest with myself, I like her and am interested in knowing more about her, but I am also aware that I can't seem to love another. It's a fucking learning experience for everyone (love), no? Something you learn to do, that takes work? Not everything needs so much pressure at the start (acceptance, openness, etc)? No shit, right... I noticed that I think maybe she liked me, or found me interesting or worthy of note. We hadn't spoken though we'd been in the same class, but then we talked to each other over drinks with some other kids a few weeks ago, and that is when I really talked to her and became "aware" of her. And after that, nil.

 

That night, I found out that the main friend I knew, who had invited me (they all had been hanging out already) actually had a crush on her, and was trying to get with her. Now, I felt that I had noticed that she had taking a liking to me that night, and I genuinely had a liking for her. But I am totally unable to act on these things, always, every time. Furthermore, if you can't tell already, I can't seem to organize the various aspects of things in order to make sense of them. For instance: I like the girl, my friend likes her, put it out of your mind. OK for most people, right? Not me, I somehow lose track of what's causing me anxiety and I over-complicate it: I really want a relationship, I want to be the kind of person who can do that, but something in me just... pushes it away. I reject the other and I just find it easier to stay away. So this, coupled with knowing that this guy wanted to be with her, made me avoid it. And for me, lacking social grace, the easiest way to avoid is to just totally shut it out.

 

And this is the rather painful start of my problem, I still am in the class with her, and I haven't spoken to her since. Or anyone that was there that night, who I had a good time with. I always sit away from them, and leave the class immediately. NOW THIS REALLY CAN'T JUST BE BLAMED ON ME, NO? Because, now that I think of it, I have locked eyes with them, and it wasn't just me who had that blank "I don't know you" look on their face. Then again, it could be blamed on me, because I walk into the class and just sit far away from them and say nothing, and avoid looking at them. Pathetic, in some ways. But can't someone fucking understand why this might happen!?!?!? What a grey area. I can tell this has built up a certain awkward pain in the situation, and really don't know what to do about it at this point. It's laughable honestly. I'm just extremely shy, and this shyness manifests itself in a kind of aloofness where I just find it easier to exit very quickly. And I don't doubt they have a certain kind of shyness. I think I am building this up a little too much in my head. But I think it is understandable to have difficulty mixing situations. The social world and the classroom represent two very distinct realities and I act differently inside both of them.

 

The sad thing is, inside me I feel a very romantic person. I love women in the way that I want them to experience more things. I want to show them things and adventure and bring out the best in myself. There is so much I want to say and express that I think of when I am alone. But when I am there in the reality... I feel like if I could just clear away the bullshit and be myself, everything would be awesome...it always gets lost in some social confusion or in the technical aspects of social grace. And the sort of "dominance" you have to place over other guys which makes them resent you. Confidence. Disregard. That kind of behavior hurts me. I don't like to treat people like that. But most people don't give it a second thought. And that is frustrating. It always seems that I am friends with someone who "gets the girl" when I am often empty handed, or better said: alone. I know I should just be alone, and have no "friends." That is what makes a person a man, an "alpha" (someone who is attractive to most women) - when he has enough respect and love for himself that he doesn't need to be tied down by the bullshit "friendships" that happen between men. Friendship is pretty rare as it were. No expectations should ever be held, no obligation or desire to please. I would be better if I was truly a lone ranger, a person with enough strength to live as I am and to let others follow or whatever. I need to read up on what it really means to have self-esteem, confidence.

 

Still, I am alone. It hurts me to sit and think of what could have been, if I had done something differently. If I had put myself out there, and tried harder to open up, to REALLY open up, not in the whole phony "I'm trying to open up now" way. Because the best part of myself is the part that is deepest. The most hidden. I just want to throw everything off of myself and just let myself BE, and let myself live how I deserve to live: in relationship with other people. Learning about other people. But in the end the only image left in my mind is just me, alone, looking at the other person in disdain, without acceptance or love. I just can't seem to connect, I'm always at the risk of dropping out and leaving the other person there, anyone who trusts me.

 

"but there's always more... there is more." I need to learn how to be confident, responsible, respectful, and self-determining. And to be alone in the way that is healthy, where I am OK with it. Where I don't feel weird, but am comfortable in my own skin, as I am. Where I learn to see all that shit my mom said to me as a kid was just her own weird neurosis, and that when I hear echoes of that voice in the people around me, well, to take it with a serious grain of salt. That kind of voice can cut you at the lowest level, the part that is unseen. It undermines the very fabric of your every action, striking at the absolute roots of your existence and being. It is beyond the conscious mind. Your life becomes a self fulfilling prophecy... you become the "disgusting thing" she made you think you were. But you, are somewhere else, no? You are not insane, weird, bad, stupid, evil, disgusting, a shithead, a little piece of shit, etc. You are like everyone else. Worthy. But just as soon you can forget, and become that thing. I just want this to stop...

[SR4]

i feel like I would have more to say if this was posted a few hours earlier....but i sympathize with a lot of this

 

 

its selfish to want to "be" with somebody but then not "get" being with them...and Ill admit Ive been guilty of doing that in the past, as I think most people have.

[logakght]

you only yolo once

[MisterE]

i can relate to a lot of this, or at least i had gone through it many years ago as a young misterE. i think the main thing here that's resulting in all of these cascading thoughts is just a lack of much experience. i think if you take it one step at a time, and can actually get yourself into a situation where you are dealing with a relationship, you will learn how to deal with it as it goes. getting into it may be the hardest step, so if you want to get there you have to kind of push yourself. but don't think that it's always going to be this hard, is what i'm saying.

[Guest zaphod]

[luke viia]

Vamos, treat people how you'd like to be treated. The rest follows.

 

Easier said than done, but most things are.

[ambermonk]

Hmm...I'm probably being naive, but it sounds like you might be over-thinking things.

Like you, my shyness has made me act with restraint most of the time, when it comes to interactions with women. In fact, I've never been on a single date, which might be attributed to the fact that I've never bothered to ask a girl out.

Now I'm kind of at the point where I don't care about pursuing relationships anymore, like I'm actually satisfied with being by myself.

I had a conversation with a coworker today (who's nearly twice my age, and is married with two kids) about stuff like this, and his advice was to just act naturally and go about your business, rather than to try and chase (or stalk) a woman you have a crush on.

 

^^And when I do that, it seems to bother women more than anything else. So maybe 'ing more might help. It's a struggle I'm having as well.

[Hoodie]

i can really relate to your last paragraph. especially the part about mothers...

 

for me, no matter how much i tell myself that i'm not a crappy person, there's still a little piece of me that says, "hah, you know you're lying to yourself, right?" and that's what always brings me back to self-hatred. i wish i could get rid of it. i think it's social anxiety and low self-confidence and just a bunch of other shit that i need to get figured out. i guess i already have it figured out because LOGICALLY i'm doing pretty well and i know that i'm a good person. it's just internalizing it that is not working out and i have no fucking clue how to internalize it. i've tried the whole "self-talk" schtick and i always feel like i'm just lying to myself. when i look in the mirror and try to tell myself, "wow, you look great today," deep down i am just laughing at myself for essentially "lying" (even though i'm not actually lying, but it *feels* like i am so i might as well be). and like you said, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. i get nervous that i'm inadequate and the nervousness makes me say stupid shit in front of people because my mind starts racing and that just feeds into the inadequacy.

 

sorry to talk about myself in your thread. i guess maybe sharing my own experience with those type of feelings might help you better understand your own or at least you know that you're not alone.

[LimpyLoo]

Vamos, the fact that you are being honest with yourself is like 90% of the battle. It's the first domino. Most people will never improve themselves simply because our fragile human egos tend to prevent us from honest self-examination.

 

And as previously stated I'd say start with the golden rule and extrapolate from there.

[baph]

Vamos, the fact that you are being honest with yourself is like 90% of the battle. It's the first domino. Most people will never improve themselves simply because our fragile human egos tend to prevent us from honest self-examination.

 

And as previously stated I'd say start with the golden rule and extrapolate from there.

Yep, this

[vamos scorcho]

how old are you, vamos? would help put this in context

I am 23.

 

 

 

 

 

I think the golden rule really is very, very helpful. I hadn't thought of that.

 

 

Things are as you make them, I guess. You can choose at any point to start thinking afresh. Do you think that with time real chance can occur? With work over a period? I know that right now, I am not that. I know that my heart and my mind are more or less primed for negative thinking and takeovers that disrupt me at almost every turn. And the whole learning process of being able to be positive and separated from negative people in general...

 

At the same time, I've found that I'm able to actually look at the most heinous of thoughts and basically disregard them, and not identify with them. In the past, I might have let myself do that, or not realized they were negative, or the framework. The thing is, these thoughts still come up, and I still have to stop them. And what I am wondering, is if there comes a point where I really am good enough at this that it might not take as much energy. Where I can really get out of this altogether. Because currently it takes almost all my energy to look at it objectively and say, "that's not me, sorry!" And change the thought to a better one.

 

I think I know the answer to this question: I'm sure anyone can change as long as they give it the effort.

[goDel]

You might want to grab a copy of Neil Strauss's 'The Game'. Even though its popularity might make you think otherwise, it does a good job of busting down the preprogrammed social rules of mothers and society when it comes to yourself and the dating & mating game.

[Guest Lucy Faringold]

You might want to grab a copy of Neil Strauss's 'The Game'. Even though its popularity might make you think otherwise, it does a good job of busting down the preprogrammed social rules of mothers and society when it comes to yourself and the dating & mating game.

 

[granty]

Yeah, you're definitely over thinking this. I tried many many times to initiate relationships but it never worked, then one day I met someone, who I liked, that wanted to be with me too - weird! There wasn't any trying involved at all. Just relax, enjoy your youth, carry on being a nice person and the rest will fall neatly into place.

[awepittance]

goDel, on 11 Feb 2013 - 22:07, said:

You might want to grab a copy of Neil Strauss's 'The Game'. Even though its popularity might make you think otherwise, it does a good job of busting down the preprogrammed social rules of mothers and society when it comes to yourself and the dating & mating game.

never heard of this book, but the first thing i thought when i read his original post was 'game'. Some guys naturally have it, some guys don't, some guys feel like it's disingenuous or inauthentic, for some guys they learn it in books and use it. Nothing wrong with not being an alpha male by trade.

as lame as it is, there are things biologically coded into the mating ritual that stand the test of time and 'work' on receptive females. For someone like me it's easy to dislike or find distasteful people who treat any single (or not single female) as an object of affection, but as they say 'hate the player, not the game'

 

psychologically speaking Vamos, you are in a better position than an alpha maley type guy who has built up a lot of false confidence that could fall like a house of cards at any moment. true confidence can be built from having actual humility which it seems like you have, and i think as others have said in this thread recognizing that you don't have the confidence you woud like is the first step in building it up.

[lumpenprol]

folks, this is why the time honored tradition of "being dragged along by your friends to visit hookers" developed.

 

(see for ref: that Howard Stern interview with Bryan Cranston from Breaking Bad).

[lumpenprol]

but as they say 'hate the player, not the game'

heh, actually it's the opposite: "don't hate the player, hate the game." Meaning don't hate on those more successful, hate the entire construct of mating rituals...if you want to. But yeah.

[RichieBees]

http://www.reddit.com/r/seduction

[keltoi]

forget that 'the game' bollocks imo. spend that energy learning to accept yourself and let go of whatever bullshit's been loaded onto you by your mum or whoever. when you're in a nicer place that social stuff might come easier to you and relationships will just happen.

[chim]

*puts on this*

 

 

Mr Scorcho, you have been very honest in your post. I can relate to most of your thoughts, as I used to be extremely socially awkward. Now, the difference here is that I got out of that pattern of thinking and acting, through a long and arduous process of trial and error, and I'm going to write some comments to your post in order to help you get some perspective. Maybe some of it is going to be a bit of psychological trickery. You can take it with a grain of salt if you like, but it's really with the best intentions.

 

Here's my diagnosis. First of all, your problem isn't serious. There are two main components to your frustrations here.

 

Component 1 is that you are feeding patterns of thoughts that do not serve you in the slightest and do not validate you, even when you already know underneath that you are better than that. For what reasons, only you know. This is the biggest problem as far as I'm concerned as it is a self-feeding habit that will take time to dissolve.

 

But that is only half the story of component 1. These thoughts are your defense shield against new and unknown experiences that could potentially be harmful to your self image and those qualities of yourself that are positive. This is why you feel like you can't love another or feel loved, why you freeze up. Those thoughts overpower you, your expectations go through the roof and you find yourself incapable to act. Think about it. Getting intimate with other people is a big risk.

 

Component 2 is the habitual projection of value away from yourself and your options in the present moment. This leads to two things:

 

First, you become obsessed with the big L word, the far off paradise land of a flawless relationship. You write a lot about your dreams, and how you need a girlfriend to fix all of this terrible loneliness. Why? Let me tell you the truth, as long as you have these self-acceptance issues, even if you do manage to get yourself into a relationship, you are going to develop severe trust issues.

 

Secondly, you feed component 1 by that expression of powerlessness, as you feel like you have nothing to offer to anyone.

 

Both of these components are obstacles that you put up, that have nothing to do with other people. They are your personal responses to reality based on your self-perception. They are simultaneously a barrier to your desires and a fortress to keep you safe from harm. Why is this necessary? How do you come up with a habit like this? Because you have two conflicting perceptions of yourself; you are both a special and great guy, and you also think of yourself as a monster. These two self-images seem to exchange themselves throughout your day. They protect you from the outside world (the special and caring guy) and protects the outside world from you (the monster).

 

So, what I want to say is that, for the time being, forget about these women and how nice it would be to be with them and so on. Focus on your self-acceptance.

 

Secondly, and this is really really really important, there's a practice that I would like you to begin with. Forget about neil strauss, forget about alphas and betas and all of that bullshit: Learn to act without expectations.

 

Let go of that rabid control monkey in your head that has to approve or reject everything that you do or say. Simply do stuff. This doesn't mean that you have to go crazy, but only that, dissolve the expectations in your head. Both of yourself, and of other people. Whenever you say or do something, don't expect people to respond a certain way, don't require them to approve of you, and don't be so certain about what they do think of you. This is the secret. Focus on yourself and your own approval.

 

This releases a tremendous amount of energy in the way that you carry yourself, and brings a positive atmosphere wherever you are. When you accept yourself and don't need to fix yourself, you accept other people and don't need to fix them. This means that they accept you in return.

 

Another thing is that you should probably not focus on getting in a relationship. Again, let go of all of those expectations. Try to have some fun and then forget about it. When you are more confident and self-secure, you will be a far better judge of relationships.

 

When you do want to ask someone out, with time you will figure out that actually asking them out isn't so scary as it seems, and it's a lot better than not asking - if they say no, you get it out of the way and out of your head. That uncertainty is a bitch.

 

Everytime you refer to something about other people has something to do with your relationship with yourself. Regarding the last paragraph, where you talk about what you need to learn. I'd say that you need to learn how to remove your expectations of yourself and stop needing to fix yourself so god damn much. This will automatically make you confident, responsible and more self-determining, as you stop spending so much time and energy on getting down on yourself.

[FLA FUR BIS FLE]

 

lolol

[keltoi]

*puts on this*

 

 

Mr Scorcho, you have been very honest in your post. I can relate to most of your thoughts, as I used to be extremely socially awkward. Now, the difference here is that I got out of that pattern of thinking and acting, through a long and arduous process of trial and error, and I'm going to write some comments to your post in order to help you get some perspective. Maybe some of it is going to be a bit of psychological trickery. You can take it with a grain of salt if you like, but it's really with the best intentions.

 

Here's my diagnosis. First of all, your problem isn't serious. There are two main components to your frustrations here.

 

Component 1 is that you are feeding patterns of thoughts that do not serve you in the slightest and do not validate you, even when you already know underneath that you are better than that. For what reasons, only you know. This is the biggest problem as far as I'm concerned as it is a self-feeding habit that will take time to dissolve.

 

But that is only half the story of component 1. These thoughts are your defense shield against new and unknown experiences that could potentially be harmful to your self image and those qualities of yourself that are positive. This is why you feel like you can't love another or feel loved, why you freeze up. Those thoughts overpower you, your expectations go through the roof and you find yourself incapable to act. Think about it. Getting intimate with other people is a big risk.

 

Component 2 is the habitual projection of value away from yourself and your options in the present moment. This leads to two things:

 

First, you become obsessed with the big L word, the far off paradise land of a flawless relationship. You write a lot about your dreams, and how you need a girlfriend to fix all of this terrible loneliness. Why? Let me tell you the truth, as long as you have these self-acceptance issues, even if you do manage to get yourself into a relationship, you are going to develop severe trust issues.

 

Secondly, you feed component 1 by that expression of powerlessness, as you feel like you have nothing to offer to anyone.

 

Both of these components are obstacles that you put up, that have nothing to do with other people. They are your personal responses to reality based on your self-perception. They are simultaneously a barrier to your desires and a fortress to keep you safe from harm. Why is this necessary? How do you come up with a habit like this? Because you have two conflicting perceptions of yourself; you are both a special and great guy, and you also think of yourself as a monster. These two self-images seem to exchange themselves throughout your day. They protect you from the outside world (the special and caring guy) and protects the outside world from you (the monster).

 

So, what I want to say is that, for the time being, forget about these women and how nice it would be to be with them and so on. Focus on your self-acceptance.

 

Secondly, and this is really really really important, there's a practice that I would like you to begin with. Forget about neil strauss, forget about alphas and betas and all of that bullshit: Learn to act without expectations.

 

Let go of that rabid control monkey in your head that has to approve or reject everything that you do or say. Simply do stuff. This doesn't mean that you have to go crazy, but only that, dissolve the expectations in your head. Both of yourself, and of other people. Whenever you say or do something, don't expect people to respond a certain way, don't require them to approve of you, and don't be so certain about what they do think of you. This is the secret. Focus on yourself and your own approval.

 

This releases a tremendous amount of energy in the way that you carry yourself, and brings a positive atmosphere wherever you are. When you accept yourself and don't need to fix yourself, you accept other people and don't need to fix them. This means that they accept you in return.

 

Another thing is that you should probably not focus on getting in a relationship. Again, let go of all of those expectations. Try to have some fun and then forget about it. When you are more confident and self-secure, you will be a far better judge of relationships.

 

When you do want to ask someone out, with time you will figure out that actually asking them out isn't so scary as it seems, and it's a lot better than not asking - if they say no, you get it out of the way and out of your head. That uncertainty is a bitch.

 

Everytime you refer to something about other people has something to do with your relationship with yourself. Regarding the last paragraph, where you talk about what you need to learn. I'd say that you need to learn how to remove your expectations of yourself and stop needing to fix yourself so god damn much. This will automatically make you confident, responsible and more self-determining, as you stop spending so much time and energy on getting down on yourself.

 

yeah that's what i said.

[Danny O Flannagin]

 

 

lolol

I can't stop looking at this, that dude's probably really into IDM

[Guest boo]

edit: no

[goDel]

Ehm, have the nay-sayers actually read the Neil Strauss book? Most of all, it's about understanding the game (sorry, it just is a game) and self improvement (kinda like chima says you should do, but worded differently). Vamos, you should find out what works for you. If a Neil Strauss book doesn't help, so be it.

 

At least forget about the alpha male crap and how that's supposed to be given. Or how you are supposed to think about yourself. If you want to solve this part of your life, you have to be able to think outside the box. The alpha male thing - and what is supposed to be good or bad in general - is completely inside the box.

 

If you need another inspiration, think about Bruce Lee. He can teach a thing or two about pragmatism and self improvement.

 

I mean, look at the writer himself:

(before)

 

and

 

(after)

 

almost anyone could make a transformation like this.

 

Obviously, at watmm the after will not necessarily be accepted as "better". But that's for you to define. Watmm will not likely give you the best advice, imo. Sorry.