Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[ignatius]

I haven’t watched a John Oliver thing in years but this is pretty good. look at recent context with politics in Israel and how fucked up Hamas is.  He’s not presenting a solution but dispelling some narratives people lazily believe. 
 

 

[Satans Little Helper]

Yeah, appreciated this ^^^

Appreciate the attempt to explain a complex situation. It’s frustrating the political reality seems in the way of solving it though. But that’s what happens when people are resentful and have little or no trust in government/politics/ authorities/ people with opposing views , I’m afraid.

[Hail Sagan]

 

[droid]

Perhaps the most ridiculous piece of propaganda yet.

[usagi]

great, you made me click on a Sun link.

[usagi]

so yeah, that video smells like confected bullshit. and again you should have known better. fuck the IDF.

source

 

Quote

 

IDF appears to walk back claim of 'guardian list' of Hamas names

4h ago

By Basel Hindeleh

 

The Israeli military appears to have walked back an earlier claim that soldiers had found "a guardian list" suggesting Hamas fighters held Israeli hostages prisoner in the basement of a Gaza children's hospital.

The video, which the IDF said was shot in the basement of Gaza's Rantisi Hospital, shows IDF spokesperson Daniel Hagari walking around the room describing different elements that show "signs that indicate that Hamas held hostages here".

One of the items Hagari points to is a sheet of paper on a wall.

He says: "There is a list. This list in Arabic, in Arabic this list says we are in operation, the operation against Israel. Started in the 7th of October.

"This is a guardian list, where every terrorist writes his name and every terrorist has his own shift, guarding the people the people that were here."

However, what that page depicts is a calendar with days and dates starting on Saturday October 7, when Hamas launched its surprise attack against Israel.

The Arabic text above the numbers spells out the names of the days. There do not appear to be any personal names on the sheet.

The text at the top reads "The Aqsa flood battle", the name which Hamas gave its attack.

The days up to and including Friday November 3 have been marked out in yellow highlighter.

The sheet of paper that IDF claims is a guard roster has days and dates in Arabic.(Supplied: IDF)

In a later media briefing Hagari playing back some parts of the video, amended his language and correctly identified what the page said.

"There is this list with days, mark the days from the 7th of October and has the name that Hamas gave to the operation, 'Operation of Al-Aqsa' (Flood), of the mosque of Al-Aqsa.

"Has the dates, the number of the days that followed by, I don't know exactly what it indicates, when did they left this area but you have to remember, we evacuate the hospital with the patients.

"They might have left with the patients, they might have run away through tunnels, and we have signs that they had hostages with them. It's still under investigation but there's enough signs to indicate that."

In the basement he also showed weapons including grenades, suicide vests and other explosives as well as a motorcycle with gunshot marks which he said appeared to have been used to bring hostages to Gaza after the attack.

He also showed footage of what appeared to be rudimentary living quarters, including a small kitchen, as well as a nearby underground tunnel which he said led to the house of a senior Hamas naval commander.

The ABC could not verify when or where this footage was taken.

Daniel Hagari shows what he says are weapons stored by Hamas in the basement of Rantisi Hospital.(Supplied: IDF)

Israel has repeatedly accused Hamas of using hospitals and other civilian infrastructure to hide command centres and weapons positions, claims which Hamas and hospital authorities in Gaza have denied.

Rantisi Hospital is a paediatric hospital which specialises in treating cancer patients.

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by usagi

[usagi]

separately:

 

[auxien]

even if Hamas is using hospitals/refugee camps/etc as bases or entrances to their tunnel networks, whatever.... that doesn't mean bombing hospitals/refugee camps is okay?

'there's a chair there, see! hostages were there!' - okay....so you bombed the fuckin place? i do not understand how this makes any sense. it's sick and sad and twisted that this logic is working.

[usagi]

2 hours ago, auxien said:

even if Hamas is using hospitals/refugee camps/etc as bases or entrances to their tunnel networks, whatever.... that doesn't mean bombing hospitals/refugee camps is okay?

it is if you've been coddled by power players in the international community to feel like you can act however you please.

it also is if you're a basic bitch on the internet with no overarching comprehension of the problem and how its different parts fit together.

[ignatius]

3 hours ago, auxien said:

even if Hamas is using hospitals/refugee camps/etc as bases or entrances to their tunnel networks, whatever.... that doesn't mean bombing hospitals/refugee camps is okay?

'there's a chair there, see! hostages were there!' - okay....so you bombed the fuckin place? i do not understand how this makes any sense. it's sick and sad and twisted that this logic is working.

i've heard a lot of takes on this situation that basically come down to the person saying "israel should just level that place" which is fucked up obviously.. also the "they voted for hamas" narrative is just insane.  a lot of people in USA have such limited knowledge about any part of the world outside their own subdivision/gated community/rural enclave in their own town/city . it's just stuff that gets piped in vie the internet and mainstream media fuckwads.  

not everyone.. but a lot of people. it's typical and not unexpected. americans in particular abhor complexity and want a simple answer so they don't have to think too much.  they'll spend all day setting up their smart TV and entertainment system but RTFMing w/an open mind about anything else is just to omuch trouble. 

[decibal cooper]

9 minutes ago, ignatius said:

not everyone.. but a lot of people. it's typical and not unexpected. americans in particular abhor complexity and want a simple answer so they don't have to think too much.  they'll spend all day setting up their smart TV and entertainment system but RTFMing w/an open mind about anything else is just to omuch trouble. 

True. I sometimes feel like there is no hope for this country. Feel like the scale of economic inequality is also a big factor here in America too. Like I bet that 30% if not much higher of this country is people who are either poor or are lower-middle class and their major day-to-day worries concern putting food on the table for themselves or their families, and they just don't have the time or the education level to look into these matters with the critical thinking skills that are necessary. Some might say that this is a cop-out, and I sympathize with that view too. As you mention, though, consumerism and all the other crystal-ball social media distractions probably play a big role too. There also seems to be no possibility for a grassroots political movement that attempts to address the giant triplets of economic exploitation, militarism, and racism. Some recent political movements in the last decades have tried to tackle one of these, but they always seem to get bogged down in tangential concerns related to how people identify themselves. And by racism I do not mean isolated cases of unarmed black Americans being killed by police officers but instead large numbers of Palestinians (in this case) who are targeted indiscriminate by IDF with bombs, bullets, and all the rest which are bought and paid for by American tax dollars. It makes me ashamed to have been born here at times, because any American who pays taxes is complicit in these wars the way I see it. 

[auxien]

29 minutes ago, decibal cooper said:

because any American who pays taxes is complicit in these wars the way I see it. 

definitely, yeah. it’s heartbreaking to see it happening anywhere for any reason, but knowing i’m in some way complicit? it’s really fucked up…seeing what we did to Iraq, Afghanistan, other shit all around the world and now this? yeah, it’s a serious, very fucked thing. we deserve basically anything we get for the wrongs we’ve done and are actively doing. 

[ignatius]

4 hours ago, decibal cooper said:

True. I sometimes feel like there is no hope for this country. Feel like the scale of economic inequality is also a big factor here in America too. Like I bet that 30% if not much higher of this country is people who are either poor or are lower-middle class and their major day-to-day worries concern putting food on the table for themselves or their families, and they just don't have the time or the education level to look into these matters with the critical thinking skills that are necessary. Some might say that this is a cop-out, and I sympathize with that view too. As you mention, though, consumerism and all the other crystal-ball social media distractions probably play a big role too. There also seems to be no possibility for a grassroots political movement that attempts to address the giant triplets of economic exploitation, militarism, and racism. Some recent political movements in the last decades have tried to tackle one of these, but they always seem to get bogged down in tangential concerns related to how people identify themselves. And by racism I do not mean isolated cases of unarmed black Americans being killed by police officers but instead large numbers of Palestinians (in this case) who are targeted indiscriminate by IDF with bombs, bullets, and all the rest which are bought and paid for by American tax dollars. It makes me ashamed to have been born here at times, because any American who pays taxes is complicit in these wars the way I see it. 

something like 68% of america lives paycheck to paycheck. it's true so many people are just trying to survive every day and have worries and stress all their own. there's a lot of people who through simple common sense and street smarts gained from their own experiences can smell bullshit a mile away and can look at this situation and size it up.. they have some idea of how the world works because of how it works here at home in america. 

as for grassroots.. ya never know. the danger is they get coopted all the time.. and we're beyond trying to fix capitalism and this system in america from within i think. something new has to come along. turn the lights out and back on. 

[decibal cooper]

 

[Crazing]

 

[ooqpoo]

needs more sacha

 

[ignatius]

 

[usagi]

[Mattthegoone]

An amazing Irish drone-trad band Lankum got pulled from a festival appearance in Leipzig the other night over their politics, apparently its over them taking part in a Palestine fundraiser gig in Dublin recently. How fucked is that?

 

You'd think maybe the Germans would have some sort of generational reverse empathy to victims of genocidal maniacs but it appears only some do

 

 

 

 

[jaderpansen]

12 minutes ago, Mattthegoone said:

You'd think maybe the Germans would have some sort of generational reverse empathy to victims of genocidal maniacs but it appears only some do

soz, off the menu as soon as you add israel to the equation... for obvious reasons.

public broadcasting news coverage differs quite noticeably from their international counterparts, too:

 

[Mattthegoone]

Obvious reasons please slake my thirsty ignorance and elaborate sorry if its blatantly obvious to everyone else but I don't follow at all

 

 

[ignatius]

On 11/17/2023 at 9:32 AM, aderei said:

 

some real white lady shit. 

also.. wtf "no place to return to" jfc. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by ignatius

[Crazing]

https://thedigradio.com/podcast/global-palestine-politics-ep-2-w-richard-seymour/

Richard Seymour is so fking intense. 

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-ashkenazi-mizrahi-divide-still-extreme-right 

[ignatius]

jfc

 

[arti]

4 hours ago, ignatius said:

jfc

 

Is that any worse than this?  Genuine question.  Both sides.