How does the World view America these days?

[auxien]

28 minutes ago, eassae said:

Besides people getting shot, the media surrounding these shootings is hugely disturbing. They seem to intentionally be pitting us against each other with an issue that is probably not even a factor in most of the cases. I acknowledge that race could be a factor in some cases, but it can't statistically be the dominant reason.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

Number of people shot to death by the police in the United States from 2017 to 2021, by race:

these are pure numbers, not as by a percentage of the population. white persons outnumber black persons by like 9:1 or 10:1 ratio or something, and yet black people are about half the total numbers of whites there (excluding the 'unknown' demographic). 

edit: yes, the media is shit. they do not help. they've probably actively contributed to 'mass shootings' over the last couple decades, and the media/public depictions of race need to be discussed. but starting off a discussion with a post like this is not good.

Edited April 22, 2021 by auxien

[Alcofribas]

1 minute ago, eassae said:

That in no way indicates that race is a factor. It does mean it's something to investigate. Other things to investigate would be if the rates of resisting arrest have gone up because of heightened tension caused by media. Also you have to look at the crime rate statistics especially for violent crime. I know more officers than I can count on both hands, most of them are black men. This is anecdotal obviously, but you'd also have to look at the race of the officer involved in each incident.

bro you need to dust off your james baldwin if you think that black officers cannot enforce racist policing. you are decades behind conventional wisdom here.

good to see we're back at the Early Zeffolia style of discussing complex social topics by just figuring out which numbers are higher. rape? well actually the real issue is men as victims bc if you account for prison rape that's the highest number. the SJW media has poisoned us to think there is a serious issue of violent misogyny in our society.

[auxien]

Just now, eassae said:

Black people are around 13% of the entire population and commit about 40% of violent crime.

o o f

[Alcofribas]

Just now, eassae said:

Black people are around 13% of the entire population and commit about 40% of violent crime.

dude what the fuck

[auxien]

3 minutes ago, eassae said:

So is looking at data not permitted?

pure data only tells part of the story, obviously.

[EdamAnchorman]

[zlemflolia]

15 minutes ago, eassae said:

Black people are around 13% of the entire population and commit about 40% of violent crime.

can we not

[Alcofribas]

Just now, eassae said:

The other thing that's worrisome is that even discussing this stuff has become so taboo. I was hesitant to post the stats for obvious reason which immediately manifested. How can we expect to actually figure this shit out, one if were divided, two if we can't even look at all the variables with out a homer simpson receding into the bushes meme. 

it's not taboo. there is nothing you are "not permitted" to do. you just don't like it when you say completely ignorant shit and people push back at you. you're not "figuring" anything out you're just posting little snippets of completely context-less "data" and making personal anecdotes about how some of your best friends are black (cops). 

the problem is not what you're saying is taboo, it's that it's been so thoroughly examined already but you somehow think you're coming to this topic like some kind of pioneer who's just looking at the facts, crunching the numbers, seeing some inconvenient truths. it's lame internet boy bullshit, sorry. read a book bruv

[zlemflolia]

1 minute ago, eassae said:

The other thing that's worrisome is that even discussing this stuff has become so taboo. I was hesitant to post the stats for obvious reason which immediately manifested. How can we expect to actually figure this shit out, one if were divided, two if we can't even look at all the variables with out a homer simpson receding into the bushes meme. 

let's discuss it then.  i wonder why violence could be correlated to race when looking at raw numbers.  i wonder if there are many factors that contribute to this type of violent behaviors.  maybe crimes commited by black people are caught more often because of overpolicing, probably caused by systemic poverty and white supremacy. i wonder if its other variables correlated with race such as socioeconomic class, material conditions during childhood development, environmental contaminants and lead poisoning from cheap paint, improper nutrient levels, and all of the other factors associated with poverty can affect violent behavior.  hmm i wonder if a lack of economic opportunity paired with the requirement to have money to survive creates a culture of alternative methods to get money, which internalizes the violence that rules-based capitalism externalizes, allowing individual responsibility for the violence of their businesses that the CIA typically harnesses and funds terrorist groups for for US companies.  this is just off the top of my head and since im literally mentally disfigured it shouldnt be hard for smarter people to come up with others, so at least use your brain a little bit before saying "black people bad because of this numnber"

[Alcofribas]

3 minutes ago, eassae said:

I'm sorry what are you offering besides insults?

i'm not interested in having a discussion about race with someone who posts cringey little ben shapiro level quips about "data" and cnn. 

[auxien]

3 minutes ago, Alcofribas said:

it's not taboo. there is nothing you are "not permitted" to do. you just don't like it when you say completely ignorant shit and people push back at you. you're not "figuring" anything out you're just posting little snippets of completely context-less "data" and making personal anecdotes about how some of your best friends are black (cops). 

the problem is not what you're saying is taboo, it's that it's been so thoroughly examined already but you somehow think you're coming to this topic like some kind of pioneer who's just looking at the facts, crunching the numbers, seeing some inconvenient truths. it's lame internet boy bullshit, sorry. read a book bruv

quoted/bolded for h e l l a truth

16 minutes ago, eassae said:

It's obviously a complex issue with complex causes that reach back many years. The connection to race being a factor in most police shootings seems pretty tenuous at best. Yes racism exists, but I don't want the media telling me I should be suspicious of my friends and that my friends should be suspicious of me because they want higher ratings.

Of course, but it's a factor, and one that's being largely ignored.

idk that 'race is a factor in most police shootings' as there are dozens that happen regularly that never get any attention. 

the facts around/preceding/causing the data are what you're seemingly ignoring.

[Alcofribas]

booba

[milkface]

Just now, Alcofribas said:

booba

[ignatius]

me stepping out of this thread. 

 

[zlemflolia]

Just now, eassae said:

I never claimed to be presenting the entire picture of what's taking place. My point was that I feel the media is being very irresponsible and is exacerbating issues that are dividing people further.

when facts are laid out and presented in their full truth, the reactionary elements of society will do what they do best, which is oppose underprivileged groups, rather than doing self crit and improving their institutions.  you valuing the peace of civil society is reactionary since you are denying the reality because you are scared of the reactionary backlash and saying it's worse than the benefits of bringing to light these harsh truths faced by minorities

 

Quote

 

I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html

[auxien]

1 minute ago, eassae said:

I never claimed to be presenting the entire picture of what's taking place. My point was that I feel the media is being very irresponsible and is exacerbating issues that are dividing people further.

sounds like you're doing literally the exact same type of thing you're accusing the media of doing.

the media are shit, no one debates that. some persons in the media are doing their god's honest best it seems, but as a whole these media conglomerates are designed to get money moreso than present truth.

[Alcofribas]

11 minutes ago, eassae said:

Okay. 

i'm sorry to be so harsh, brother. but this is just so played out at this point it's just really lame to see posts like this pop up again and again online. i mean dude what does it matter if a cop is black??? have you not seen any high school movie whatsoever depicting girls saying extremely hateful sexist shit about other girls? or a repressed gay student who goes around being homophobic af? if films and tv meant for teenagers can manage this completely simple situation i think we can be done with pretending this is some really makes you think issue when it comes to black cops. people are hypocrites, they internalize contradictory things, they hate themselves and others. if in a society that devalues the lives of women, queer people, blacks, etc. an individual can personally gain (actually, or in ignorance) from playing into these hateful biases, guess what? they will! our entire democracy is built on manipulating people to vote against their own interests lol

Edited April 22, 2021 by Alcofribas

[auxien]

Just now, eassae said:

Possibly. I can make mistakes like anyone. But other than @cyanobacteria nobody's really offered to expand on the picture I've presented.

the information is out there, learn to google for fuck's sake. idc tbh, not here to educate you or anyone. but gtfo with stupid out of context ignorant bullshit tho, you'll get pushback from anyone with any sense when you do.

1 minute ago, eassae said:

It is an interesting idea, that of self preservation. Don't rock the boat if you're comfortable in it. The whole white supremacy thing seems pretty silly or targeting one group for racist behavior seems silly to me though.

if you think white supremacy isn't a large portion of (or perhaps almost all of) the problem in America's racial problems for its entire history you really should do some reading.

[milkface]

1 minute ago, Alcofribas said:

i'm sorry to be so harsh, brother. but this is just so played out at this point it's just really lame to see posts like this pop up again and again online. i mean dude what does it matter if a cop is black??? have you not seen any high school movie whatsoever depicting girls saying extremely hateful sexist shit about other girls? or a repressed gay student who goes around being homophobic af? if films and tv meant for teenagers can manage this completely simple situation i think we can be done with pretending this is some really makes you think issue when it comes to black cops. people are hypocrites, they internalize contradictory things, they hate themselves and others. if in a society that devalues the lives of women, queer people, blacks, etc. an individual can personally gain from playing into these hateful biases, guess what? they will!

facts, power is intertwined with all kinds of different types of inequality. your example of the cop resonates a lot with officer coffey in boyz n the hood

[zlemflolia]

1 minute ago, eassae said:

I get it, but the other side is played out too at this point and all we have left is hate it seems. You can't get anywhere that way.

Very true: What does it matter? Hate is hate, and compartmentalizing it to one demographic(the white man's coming for us) gets us no where. 

the other side is played out?  i promise it isnt, and it needs a lot more playing out, a lot more revolutionary restructuring of the very society and reshuffling of wealth and power before it can be called played out.  this is what the reactionary white supremacists sense and do not want.  they dont want black people having equal access to the same amenities they do en masse.  they dont want well educated black people who were given good material upbringings by their economic and material conditions and were given free university education and allowed to compete at the highest levels of power.  because they are white supremacists and they feel things should be as they are.  only as we see more revolutionary groups seizing the very means of production will we see liberation for black people, only after the very private property rights helping to entrench white supremacy are utterly smashed and ruined can the black proletariat hope to achieve freedom from the ghost of their slavery that haunts us all to this day, it has not played out, it has not even started

[zlemflolia]

Just now, eassae said:

Well it seems you have your boogyman. I understand, it does make life a lot simpler. 

don't play the victim and pretend I am racist against white people to counteract black racism.  the bogeyman is not a person but a zombie dredged up by the founding fathers and maintained by the bourgeoisie

 

[Braintree]

1 hour ago, eassae said:

I acknowledge that race could be a factor in some cases, but it can't statistically be the dominant reason.

It is a much larger factor than you have considered. Have a look at how bad the white supremacist problem is in police departments.

https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/537611-white-supremacy-and-american-policing

Quote

The institutional racism prevalent in many police forces does not constitute white supremacy per se, but it creates an environment conducive to extremist recruitment. The increase in the number of white supremacist groups and their membership over the past two decades has been thoroughly documented. As white supremacy spread, concern over extremist groups recruiting officers increased. A 2006 FBI report warned of white supremacists infiltrating law enforcement and the 2015 Counterterrorism Policy Directive and Policy Guide reiterated the warning, “white supremacist extremists, and sovereign citizen extremists often have identified active links to law enforcement officers.” 

No one knows precisely how many officers belong to extremist organizations. The 2020 Brennan Center report found alleged connections between law enforcement officials and white supremacist groups or “far-right militant activities” in at least 14 states. It also uncovered dozens of reports of racist behavior by officers around the country.

Also these: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/27/white-supremacists-militias-infiltrate-us-police-report

https://www.vox.com/2021/1/16/22233514/capitol-riot-rally-police-white-supremacy

The shitty policing problem isn't a media problem. That's a right-wing talking point that distracts from the purpose of holding police accountable.

[Braintree]

4 minutes ago, eassae said:

Maybe, and I acknowledge that I could be wrong. But, I just don't trust really any media outlet. I've worked in media too long and seen too much. The Hill is fairly reasonable, but they've done some really shoddy reporting in the past, mostly they're just going off of local news stories with very little research. My opinion. 

You can use this: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/

[ignatius]

2 minutes ago, eassae said:

I definitely think there is a shitty policing problem. I don't deny that at all. The main issue being training that I brought up before. I also acknowledge that it is a profession that can attract people that want power over others for whatever reason. I just don't think that is the majority. From the officers I've met, I would saw for most it's just a job, some truly want to help their community, I haven't met any that give me pause or that have made me thing they are inherently sadistic. That said I'm sure they're out there.

when my brother was a cop i met a bunch of other cops who worked at his dept and other departments when they'd get together. some were really great people, well adjusted, professional etc and some were just fucking awful with terrible and narrow world views, pretty stupid and uninformed and power trippy or lazy as fuck. one guy got fired for making up tickets.. was too lazy to pull people over so he would just fill in the blanks on tickets.. he got caught because one the driver's license numbers he made up turned out to be a real person.  at least he got fired for it. some faith in the system for that. 

[Braintree]

2 minutes ago, eassae said:

For me, it's not even a matter of finding bias, that's usually fairly easy to spot. It's that stories are being presented, not with small biases, but with huge ones, and they do it in order to increase profits, and it has real world consequences. 

Yeah that's a problem that's been around since the newspaper was invented. You have the internet now. You can source what's probably true or not by looking at a lot of different sources.

10 minutes ago, eassae said:

I definitely think there is a shitty policing problem. I don't deny that at all. The main issue being training that I brought up before. I also acknowledge that it is a profession that can attract people that want power over others for whatever reason. I just don't think that is the majority. From the officers I've met, I would say for most it's just a job, some truly want to help their community, I haven't met any that give me pause or that have made me think they are inherently sadistic. That said I'm sure they're out there.

This is another right-wing talking about. You're doing a "not all cops" thing, which isn't our point. Our point is that the system of policing causes a lot of harm and should be addressed. Statistically, this harms African Americans more than any other group.

Also, look up real data rather than relying on anecdotal evidence.