ALIEN / PROMETHEUS / COVENANT - SPOILERS INBOUND!!

[o00o]

 

 

FWIW, I still really enjoyed Prometheus, and still am baffled at the amount of nerd rage and hate directed towards it.

 

Its easy to hate on as it is targeted at a broader audience like Avatar was. Having watched the other alien movies right before it I can certainly say that Prometheus on par with the other parts except for Alien 1 which is worlds apart

[o00o]

I happen to be antimetheus myself. But that's nothing to do with "nerd rage". It's to do with the film having a fucking dumb script with poor dialogue and characters making retarded decisions. The whole "it was just a big, fun sci fi film which we don't get enough of, can't you just enjoy it?" thing is wank too. The film presents itself as this high concept movie with numerous plot strands, it is perfectly valid to criticize poor script and characterization.

 

 

I wonder if there was even something like a very successful blockbuster based on a franchise with a waterproof script during the last 10 years. If you exclude all movies that are not

• based on very solid book successful and written years in advance
  
• unknown independent productions
  
• completely new stories untied to a predefined universe or franchise
  

there is not much left.

Edited November 15, 2012 by o00o

[Blir]

Doesn't have to be waterproof though, there will always be flaws and whatnot.

 

Such a thing is rare anyway, movie producers don't take chances on new directors, stories, writers and whatnot. They want tried and true successes. This worked in a book - so lets make it a film, etc. Even if it doesn't make sense in translation.

 

Movie producers are business men, they want to make money, so artistic vision isn't a pursuit and originality falls by the wayside. Sad but what can you do? Most films are adaptations, sequels, prequels, reimaginings, reboots, remakes. I can't think of any recent completely original films.

Inception? That was original. In that it was specifically a film and nothing else beforehand.

[Joyrex]

It's insulting to say that people who don't like the film are just disappointed because it isn't as good as Alien or were comparing it to Alien - as if their opinions aren't valid, describing it as nerd rage or whatever. Even if they were comparing it to Alien, it's worth comparing. The film is a prequel, it exists in the same universe of a series that has been around since the 70's. A lot of people watched the originals when they were young and it was part of their development, so it's only natural they would care about the outcome of Prometheus.

 

Also the old chestnut of saying dumb shit like "if people hate it so much then why are they coming into the thread?". Well because it's the fucking discussion thread about Prometheus! If somebody created a Prometheus hate thread would that be preferable? No, because it would be a massive circle jerk. How about instead of getting upset that people don't share your opinion you just accept it?

 

I happen to be antimetheus myself. But that's nothing to do with "nerd rage". It's to do with the film having a fucking dumb script with poor dialogue and characters making retarded decisions. The whole "it was just a big, fun sci fi film which we don't get enough of, can't you just enjoy it?" thing is wank too. The film presents itself as this high concept movie with numerous plot strands, it is perfectly valid to criticize poor script and characterization.

 

THAT SAID: It is a gorgeous film to behold. Probably the best CGI I've seen in a film. I just personally found it disappointing otherwise. I'm glad people enjoy it, that's fantastic. Let's just not make assumptions about other peoples capacity to enjoy something because they aren't as satisfied as you.

 

Discussions on a discussion board. A new and original concept. Courtesy of Obel.

 

Perhaps I should have indicated my statement wasn't a blanket one, and didn't include everyone who found flaws with the film. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, negative or not. Personally, I never really cared that much for Alien (still a good film though, although Aliens is better than it), and I personally think Prometheus is better than any of the Alien movies, simply because it's focus is different.

 

I finished reading the original script, and while there were a lot I liked better than the actual film, I think the ending was too predictable and glad the movie went the way it did. It would have been neat to see the other evolutions of the xenomorph weapon - especially the Holloway "ultramorph" with the human skull visible inside the elongated xenomorph head. Creepy.

[lumpenprol]

Ok, I finally saw this, and don't have much to add to other people's comments but...MY GOD WAS THE MUSIC AWFUL! The main theme sounded like something better suited to a western, Saving Private Ryan, or the new Lincoln biopic. Every time I heard it evoked a mental image of Lewis and Clark travelling down a river in a canoe, which was a bit jarring given the content of the film. I'm trying to think of a film with a worse music mismatch but nothing comes to mind...it completely undercut the dramatic heft of many of the scenes

[awepittance]

i was thinking it sounded like the Deep Space Nine theme song, not to mention the whole movie seemed like Damon Lideloff trying to do his own version of Star Trek movie to prove he was more of a true nerd than JJ

 

 

the movie is almost a mashup of the end of Star Trek V, with parts of Star Trek 3's genesis planet concept with a dash of aesthetics from Star Trek the motion picture Edited December 8, 2012 by Awepittance

[awepittance]

compare

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgfDnflqMGA Edited December 8, 2012 by Awepittance

[Guest]

so who here has read the leaked Alien - Engineers script? what did you think of it?

i simply don't understand how and why they (whoever they were) could butcher that script so hard. that script connected to the original Alien in an honest way, and the characters doing stuff actually made sense. unbelievable...

[lumpenprol]

Re: Awepittance: I see what you're saying for sure. That lone trumpet bullshit is still full on Saving Private Ryan or Kevin Costner or something...it's miles away from the spooky minimalist space-horror ambient needed.

[awepittance]

if the movie had anything resembling an emotional core, it *might* work as a theme but it seems to be trying to force it where none exists. Even the exposition of her not being able to have children had almost no emotion. So did Hollaway's inexplicable sudden depression from being among the first human beings ever to see evidence of an alien civilization

[Guest boo]

 

compare

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgfDnflqMGA

better version

[Squee]

i was thinking it sounded like the Deep Space Nine theme song, not to mention the whole movie seemed like Damon Lideloff trying to do his own version of Star Trek movie to prove he was more of a true nerd than JJ

 

 

 

 

the movie is almost a mashup of the end of Star Trek V, with parts of Star Trek 3's genesis planet concept with a dash of aesthetics from Star Trek the motion picture

 

Perfect!

[Silent Member]

I tried rewatching this at home with lowered expectations the other day, to see if it maybe was better than I gave it credit for in the cinema, but I didn't get past the 20 minute mark before my nerd rage forced me to shut it off. I think I nearly had a heart attack. It really is an abomination. Self indulgent wankery I can take, people acting stupid in sci-fi I can take, but not when it's mixed with full on new age quasi-religius bullshit like this. I actually prefer the avp movies to this, because I know they're shit, and they're easily dismissable as stupid b-movies that don't really have anything to do with the first Alien film. This film on the other hand completely destroys it by retconning everything that was great about it. Oh dear. Excuse me while I torch my HDD.

[Npoess]

Holy lol.. that trailer.

 

I re-watched it recently. And I came to realization that the only reason I enjoyed it in the theather, was because of the visuals... and nothing else.

 

But honestly, the visuals (in this chase) was enough for me to enjoy it. I know that might sound a bit shallow, but I'm a whore like that.

Edited December 10, 2012 by Npoess

[danshoebridge]

I tried rewatching this at home with lowered expectations the other day, to see if it maybe was better than I gave it credit for in the cinema, but I didn't get past the 20 minute mark before my nerd rage forced me to shut it off. I think I nearly had a heart attack. It really is an abomination. Self indulgent wankery I can take, people acting stupid in sci-fi I can take, but not when it's mixed with full on new age quasi-religius bullshit like this. I actually prefer the avp movies to this, because I know they're shit, and they're easily dismissable as stupid b-movies that don't really have anything to do with the first Alien film. This film on the other hand completely destroys it by retconning everything that was great about it. Oh dear. Excuse me while I torch my HDD.

I was thinking of giving it another try at some point, but I think I'll have to get fairly drunk before hand, it's the only way I can get past the total idiocy of lots of the movie.

 

It doesn't change my love for the first two alien movies one bit though, if anything it's alien3 that 'spoils' aliens for me a bit - she goes through all that and then everyone she cares about dies as soon as the credits roll? I only really bother with the first two now I think about it, all the other ones aren't really worth a damn imo, prometheus especially.

[SR4]

the first one was bullshit.

 

 

see: Invincible Cat

[Silent Member]

Cats have nine lives, so it's totally believable. Also, the alien clearly doesn't give a shit about the cat, it only wants to kill the annoying human beings

[SR4]

but they spend the entirety of the series talking about how the alien is a heartless sentient killing machine...and then they decide to retcon the whole thing by letting the cat live.

 

 

shittiest movie ever made.

[danshoebridge]

 

shittiest movie ever made.

 

Ooh, controversial. IMDB forums might be more your sort of thing, hyperbole a speciality - pretty much every movie has a 'this is the shittiest movie ever!' thread.

[SR4]

 

 

shittiest movie ever made.

 

Ooh, controversial. IMDB forums might be more your sort of thing, hyperbole a speciality - pretty much every movie has a 'this is the shittiest movie ever!' thread.

 

 

i was on those boards over ten years ago, but then left due to boredom....i pretty much destroyed every single argument lobbied by n00bs against great movies (Nolan Batman trilogy, Boondock Saints, Alien:Resurrection, etc.). just couldn't handle me.

[lumpenprol]

I've watched this film twice now, once on in-flight, once at home on dvd. I didn't think it was an "abomination" - I actually liked the twist of having the old Weyland on the ship (although his old person make-up was distracting). I agree with those saying the irrational behavior of the crew is one big problem...other big problems being the clunky characterization and poor dialogue. The "flirting" scene between Vickers and the Captain being a good example. By the way Charlize Theron's acting was terrible, it was all over the map (she mostly did the stern-faced thing, but with the captain she was smiling like a schoolgirl...weird). Idris Elba, whom I loved on the Wire, was also pretty bad, he spent most of the movie in a soporific trance, until he suddenly decides to sacrifice himself.

 

But I also felt a good portion of the blame could be laid at Scott's doorstep. The pacing is all off, he should have never tried to emulate the "extreme character types" of Aliens, and although he doesn't seem to have lost his visual sense, his sense of emotional storytelling is all off. Hence the horrible musical theme. Which is funny because you can have very extreme music used brilliantly, such as the wildly over-the-top orchestral stuff in Aliens, but in that case they only used it during totally intense out of control sequences, so it totally fit and ratcheted up the crazy.

 

Anyway a big lost opportunity. They could have extended the intro sequence, given the film a more optimistic start, given the idea that "we are about to (potentially) meet our ancestors or makers" some time to sink in...I mean that's something we all crave, right? The crew should have been mostly united in their optimism (though you could have had Vickers be the one chilly foreshadowing of bad things to come). I think they also should have made the lead chick not the religious one, I think it would have been more funny to have the religious character get violently dismembered in a moment of misguided rapture, but hey that's just me. Main thing was they seemed to have no faith in their central idea, which they should have. It's a novel idea that to my knowledge hasn't been featured in a film before (at least not in the same way). So build it up a bit more, like 2001, before switching to the cold depths of space, and the feeling of "oh hell what have we gotten ourselves into?"

 

As a sidenote, I don't really like the Rapace chick, her cheekbones are way distracting and her acting is just kind of...annoying. She doesn't do over the top fear and pain nearly as well as Sigourney.

[Joyrex]

I've watched this film twice now, once on in-flight, once at home on dvd. I didn't think it was an "abomination" - I actually liked the twist of having the old Weyland on the ship (although his old person make-up was distracting). I agree with those saying the irrational behavior of the crew is one big problem...other big problems being the clunky characterization and poor dialogue. The "flirting" scene between Vickers and the Captain being a good example. By the way Charlize Theron's acting was terrible, it was all over the map (she mostly did the stern-faced thing, but with the captain she was smiling like a schoolgirl...weird). Idris Elba, whom I loved on the Wire, was also pretty bad, he spent most of the movie in a soporific trance, until he suddenly decides to sacrifice himself.

 

But I also felt a good portion of the blame could be laid at Scott's doorstep. The pacing is all off, he should have never tried to emulate the "extreme character types" of Aliens, and although he doesn't seem to have lost his visual sense, his sense of emotional storytelling is all off. Hence the horrible musical theme. Which is funny because you can have very extreme music used brilliantly, such as the wildly over-the-top orchestral stuff in Aliens, but in that case they only used it during totally intense out of control sequences, so it totally fit and ratcheted up the crazy.

 

Anyway a big lost opportunity. They could have extended the intro sequence, given the film a more optimistic start, given the idea that "we are about to (potentially) meet our ancestors or makers" some time to sink in...I mean that's something we all crave, right? The crew should have been mostly united in their optimism (though you could have had Vickers be the one chilly foreshadowing of bad things to come). I think they also should have made the lead chick not the religious one, I think it would have been more funny to have the religious character get violently dismembered in a moment of misguided rapture, but hey that's just me. Main thing was they seemed to have no faith in their central idea, which they should have. It's a novel idea that to my knowledge hasn't been featured in a film before (at least not in the same way). So build it up a bit more, like 2001, before switching to the cold depths of space, and the feeling of "oh hell what have we gotten ourselves into?"

 

As a sidenote, I don't really like the Rapace chick, her cheekbones are way distracting and her acting is just kind of...annoying. She doesn't do over the top fear and pain nearly as well as Sigourney.

 

 

Well, there's always the sequel

[pcock]

93 pages? what the hell has been going on in here?

[Blir]

Brilliance.

[Guest]

to you this might be jazz, as it may have been posted somewhere in these 93 pages of brilliance, but i just bumped into it: http://m15m.livejournal.com/23209.html

edit: Q: wat is it? A: brilliance

Edited December 25, 2012 by Guest