maitake Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebraska Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1021234525626609666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usagi Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) re Vice video they have a point. Mearsheimer in particular is a legend in the realist field and it'd be stupid not to pay attention when he speaks. however, there is a distinction I think between negotiating for greater peace versus the degree to which one party may be coerced through unfair leverage by the other into a peace on uneven terms, and this distinction has been conveniently elided by the current circumstances (which, as many people feel, is no coincidence). the question comes down to what kind of peace you want, really - is it the kind where your top decisionmaker concedes to foreign powers constantly to maintain that peace? that sounds like a "cold" victory for one side rather than true peace. Edited July 23, 2018 by usagi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr_Nova Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) DEMENTED WORDS OF VIOLENCE & DEATH SLAAAAAYER! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8ZqFlw6hYg Edited July 23, 2018 by Zephyr_Nova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr lopez Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 wow that ozyfest shit. holy lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) re Vice video they have a point. Mearsheimer in particular is a legend in the realist field and it'd be stupid not to pay attention when he speaks. however, there is a distinction I think between negotiating for greater peace versus the degree to which one party may be coerced through unfair leverage by the other into a peace on uneven terms, and this distinction has been conveniently elided by the current circumstances (which, as many people feel, is no coincidence). the question comes down to what kind of peace you want, really - is it the kind where your top decisionmaker concedes to foreign powers constantly to maintain that peace? that sounds like a "cold" victory for one side rather than true peace. As much in reply to the video itself as what you said: Those guys are obviously well-versed, and I wouldn't discount their assessment. I do think they fall into absolutes that hurts their case (this of course could be due to shitty VICE editing and cutting out nuance, of course...). I'd say their base argument is true: America's demonizing of Russia is 95% American-generated, and everyone should be paying attention and questioning why we're being led to demonize the country now. That said, Russia isn't friendly. There's a ton of complexity behind their actions in Ukraine and elsewhere during Putin's time in power, but ultimately there's going to be almost no one arguing that Russia's a lovely place to be that's just getting a bad rap that's totally undeserved. These guys aren't arguing that either, but they're also taking the point that we should probably try to get along with Russia sort of in a vacuum and is almost being as stupid as Trump about it. You can 'get along' with a country while giving them shit, while pointing out the issues you have with them. Trump acts as if you have to speak nothing but good things about a country in order to improve relations. This is obviously not the case. He does it because he's an idiot and has the emotion and attitude of a child. These guys are suggesting he's going in the right direction (he's not) and might get us to a better place because of it (won't happen). All that said, there's huge issues with America whipping its dick around everywhere, all the time, anywhere it may be beneficial to do so. That's the bigger problem here that the two old white guys seem to ignore. (again, I know nothing about their views outside of that video, and it could be VICE editing skewing things) edit: unrelated, an Iran war could actually be a big fucking deal. Shit's been leaning that way (purposefully) for a while... imo would be far more dangerous than any escalation of shit with Russia any time soon Edited July 23, 2018 by auxien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1021234525626609666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingformung Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 I wonder how American Army wants to invade Iran. Iraq was flat desert land but Iran has a very complex topography and should be more difficult. I mean it is almost certain that there will be a war between Israel and Iran and I'm sure the US will help Israel. And Russia might support Iran. Will be a pretty nasty long lasting war and lucrative for weapon exporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 I wonder how American Army wants to invade Iran. I'm sure Donald thought long and hard about this before sending his all caps assault. I'm positive he has a well thought out strategy that will result in an amazing USA victory, with those nasty terrorists cowering in defeat. He's probably already planning the victory parade, where he will declare himself the greatest president ever and will have world leaders lining up to bow down to him and kiss his Cheeto stained pinky ring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingformung Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 I wonder how American Army wants to invade Iran. I'm sure Donald thought long and hard about this before sending his all caps assault. I'm positive he has a well thought out strategy that will result in an amazing USA victory, with those nasty terrorists cowering in defeat. He's probably already planning the victory parade, where he will declare himself the greatest president ever and will have world leaders lining up to bow down to him and kiss his Cheeto stained pinky ring... You think such plans haven't existed before Trump? I'm not even sure about this. I guess US government/military always played with the thought of invading Iran and it happens that it's Trump who prepares the war by agitating against Iran. Just speculating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azatoth Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1021234525626609666 Very stable genius, indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 No doubt the US military/CIA has a strategy if the US were to engage with Iran... I just think Trump hasn't a clue what this would be, and as usual here starts shouting at everyone without thinking of consequences. Or hell if I know, maybe trump is being used by a secret Shadow government to start WWIII... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingformung Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 He is a bell end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YEK Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Well, Tetris... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usagi Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 ^ Scanners mind battle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I would like to see Donald trump go head to head with Putin in a series of mind bending cognitive tests so we can work out who should be the sole caregiver to Mother Earth 1st test has to involve Ivanka in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olo Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I would like to see Donald trump go head to head with Putin in a series of mind bending cognitive tests so we can work out who should be the sole caregiver to Mother Earth that would be quite the pissing match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDobalina Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 $5 says he doesn't know what the letters I and Q stand for in IQ, despite flinging feces with the term so often. Iwanka to Ivanka Nice wordplay aside, but Next time Ms. 2-guillotine-neck gets you randy just look at some current pictures of Ivana and think about what the other half chipped in genetically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 $5 says he doesn't know what the letters I and Q stand for in IQ, despite flinging feces with the term so often. Yup. That's why I want reporters to start focusing on questions like that, just shame him for his idiocy. No one cares what he says about Russia or NK for the thousandth time, ask him questions that'll make him show his stupidity, that'll get cycled around constantly and shamed and laughed at and by the time 2020 rolls around even if he's not been impeached he still won't want to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 The United States would probably lose in a war with Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebraska Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 important public service announcement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YangYing Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 important public service announcement ugh this is so muddle headed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 The United States would probably lose in a war with Iran. it would unite many smaller nations in the middle east (and muslims around the world) though some would sit out.. and then it'd be the most epic jihad ever. jihad part 2 the jahidasphere! important public service announcement ugh this is so muddle headed pretty funny though. his tone of voice is magic and the kid throwing hte hat on the floor was womp womp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YangYing Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 the only thing going for this clown was that he hadn't started another stupid war ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 The United States would probably lose in a war with Iran. it would unite many smaller nations in the middle east (and muslims around the world) though some would sit out.. and then it'd be the most epic jihad ever. jihad part 2 the jahidasphere! important public service announcementugh this is so muddle headed pretty funny though. his tone of voice is magic and the kid throwing hte hat on the floor was womp womp I don’t know about uniting anyone. We ran a war game in the early aughts where an embittered marine general took on the role of an Iran like middle eastern country and easily decimated the us navy using similar tactics to those used against the uss cole. The military decided this was “unrealistic” and redid the game so the us would win by doing away with basic tactical tools like radar. We declared it a victory and completely missed the point of the generals tactics, that a war with Iran exposed major flaws in us combat tactics and would almost definitely result in thousands of deaths and the destruction of our fleet. There’s a reason no one actually attacks that country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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