Now That Trump's President... (not any more!)

[auxien]

 

There's nothing wrong with being a Republican.

You're wrong. Even moderate Republicans and a great deal of the Democrats are very right-wing reactionary.

You're going to have to explain yourself better than that. There are literally millions upon millions of Republicans, and they're all 100% incorrect? And also some Democrats? What are you talking about?

[dingformung]

 

 

There's nothing wrong with being a Republican.

You're wrong. Even moderate Republicans and a great deal of the Democrats are very right-wing reactionary.

You're going to have to explain yourself better than that. There are literally millions upon millions of Republicans, and they're all 100% incorrect? And also some Democrats? What are you talking about?

 

I didn't say they are 100% incorrect, I said it's not true that there is nothing wrong with them.

[auxien]

 

 

 

There's nothing wrong with being a Republican.

You're wrong. Even moderate Republicans and a great deal of the Democrats are very right-wing reactionary.

You're going to have to explain yourself better than that. There are literally millions upon millions of Republicans, and they're all 100% incorrect? And also some Democrats? What are you talking about?

I didn't say they are 100% incorrect, I said it's not true that there is nothing wrong with them.

And yet you're still not explaining yourself.

[luke viia]

Very much agree on the more parties is necessary (I state as much at every chance) but the two big ones are so powerful right now that I don't see a way for any others to get a foothold any time soon.

 

Get 4-6 actual centrists (those willing to "cross the aisle" sensibly and not pander to extreme party bases) in the Senate while it's so split; they'll be the most important voting bloc in the place, and would theoretically hold more sway than either major party as they'd be necessary to pass most anything.

 

We the cheeto-munching people have to put them there, which is tricky, but I do think there are a lot of moderate voters that just don't have a chance with the GOP/Democrats, as primaries all but erase any ability to get a reasonable moderate funded for the rest of us. They tend to dial back the crazy a little bit once they've got the nomination, but that whole process still seems like it's gunking up our ability to get sane people in office. ("dark money", campaign finance reform, and all the rest play their dastardly parts, too, of course).

 

Thanks for the thoughtful posts, aux & josh.

Edited July 13, 2018 by luke viia

[dingformung]

 

 

 

 

There's nothing wrong with being a Republican.

You're wrong. Even moderate Republicans and a great deal of the Democrats are very right-wing reactionary.

You're going to have to explain yourself better than that. There are literally millions upon millions of Republicans, and they're all 100% incorrect? And also some Democrats? What are you talking about?

I didn't say they are 100% incorrect, I said it's not true that there is nothing wrong with them.

And yet you're still not explaining yourself.

 

Alright:

 

Republicans = far right

Democrats = centre right

 

Both sides are against large social programs, real welfare, free education etc. but the Democrats are pushing personal freedom at least and don't actively and openly support racism which makes them the minor problem. A left party tries to push social reforms and redistribution of wealth and is antimilitarist. Some in the very left end of the Democrat party might be that but the Democrat party as a whole equals conservative parties of other countries. Everyone who supports the Republicans directly or indirectly supports racism and military buildup which is not what the world needs. And none of the parties really tries to effectively fight the bad side effects of massive inequality. That's wrong with being a Republican.

[ignatius]

 

 

 

 

 

There's nothing wrong with being a Republican.

You're wrong. Even moderate Republicans and a great deal of the Democrats are very right-wing reactionary.

You're going to have to explain yourself better than that. There are literally millions upon millions of Republicans, and they're all 100% incorrect? And also some Democrats? What are you talking about?

I didn't say they are 100% incorrect, I said it's not true that there is nothing wrong with them.

And yet you're still not explaining yourself.

 

Alright:

 

Republicans = far right

Democrats = centre right

 

Both sides are against large social programs, real welfare, free education etc. but the Democrats are pushing personal freedom at least and don't actively and openly support racism which makes them the minor problem. A left party tries to push social reforms and redistribution of wealth and is antimilitarist. Some in the very left end of the Democrat party might be that but the Democrat party as a whole equals conservative parties of other countries. Everyone who supports the Republicans directly or indirectly supports racism and military buildup which is not what the world needs. And none of the parties really tries to effectively fight the bad side effects of massive inequality. That's wrong with being a Republican.

 

 

 

and at some point you have to take into account all their corporate masters and the total fuckery of such a huge bureaucracy. there is a revolving door between congress, the pentagon and defense contractors. 

 

just an example of how fucked up this is.. every year the General Accounting Office does a super basic audit of every governmental department... just a basic list of budget accounting. how much money came into the department and how much of it was spent. 

 

the Pentagon became exempt from this basic audit in the 90s because they couldn't even account for how much money they got vs how much money they spent and the general accounting office got tired of asking so they just excused the pentagon from this basic yearly request. 

 

around 25,000 people work in the pentagon. this isn't including out buildings, military offices on bases etc. this doesn't include lobbyists for defense contractors. in washington DC there's something like 23 to 1 ratio of lobbyists to congress members.  there's more than 12,000 lobbyists in DC. 

 

in congress they run every 2 years which means as soon as they are elected they have about 9 months before they have to start campaigning again.  for many congress members it's a constant hustle/game to play to stay there so that maybe once in their career they accomplish a goal. some seats are of course sort of easier to win every year and the member puts less effort into elections.

 

anyway.. where was i going w/this? i don't know. but generating a caucus to make something like universal halthcare or universal basic income even get to the floor to be discussed or committee etc is a huge deal. the dems putting together the affordable care act was a huge accomplishment even though it's totally watered down to what the original idea of medicare for everyone was supposed to be. 

 

all because money is in there pulling strings in form of insurance lobby etc... and there's a lobby for everything. 

[auxien]

to darreichs: 

You're not wrong, but also you're entirely wrong.

 

The vastness and complexities of the two major parties is in no way summarized by that, as I'm sure you'd admit, but I'm going to go so far as to say your summary is almost damaging if anything. It's obviously influenced partly by not being American: this is not a condemnation of it, I'm simply pointing out that you're attacking it all from one angle and that contributes to your incorrect summary, I'm hazarding to guess. 

 

Democrats are not part and parcel 'against large social programs' and I'd even argue that Republicans sometimes aren't either, they've been leaning more that way the last decades though. 

 

Some Republicans support racism, some are very much against racism. Most racists in America currently would identify as Republican if they were asked, but also these are racists and they're largely idiots, many of whom do not vote, don't actually care about politics in any real way. There's liberals who are racists too, that doesn't mean every Democrat is an evil sack of shit. Supporting the Republican national party right now does roundabout mean you're 'supporting racism' pretty much, yeah.

 

But this is not the entire picture, the Republican party (just like the Democratic) is splintered at every level, across 50+ states and territories, thousands of counties, and so ultimately just because John gives money to his local representative in his county, it doesn't mean he's a racist. Maybe he's just wanting to get the deficit in check and stupidly believes the Republican party can help that out. Maybe he hates racism and campaigns against it every chance he gets. One's political views does not define them as a person any more than buying an iPhone means that John wants to support slave-ish labor conditions in China (awkward example but I hope you get the idea). Should we all consider the larger aspects of things we participate in and support in one way or another? Yeah, of course, but ffs not everyone is going to do that all the time with literally everything. It's simply not going to happen. 

 

Ultimately you're wrong because the Dems and the Reps aren't really that different when it comes to actual actions carried out by the government. I'm not going to try to dig in on the intricacies of pushing bills through Congress (why you would know about this I dunno but maybe you're already well aware), but at the end of the day the D & R parties don't actually act that much different, so you're wrong because America as a whole, despite the party affiliations of individuals, supports 'racism and military buildup' indirectly or directly (via our tax dollars and unending stability). Republicans are only slightly more overt with these things recently, and you can't judge either party alone or within a 2 or 4 year period, you have to contextualize all of it otherwise you're missing the picture.

 

Like I said, there's nothing wrong with being a Republican. There's something wrong with lots of layers of the republican parties, donors, some supporters, etc., yes. Joe Schmoe in America who identifies as Republican? Nothing wrong with that on the face of it, you've gotta judge what kind of a Republican he is, why he's like that, what he's about, and so forth. That's why I took issue with ambermonk's original 'fuck all republicans' thing because yeah, I feel like that sometimes but also I have to step back and remind myself that it's not that simple, and falling into that bullshit is just harmful by definition. Would I be happy if the Republican party from the local up to the national level fell apart over the next two years? Fuck yes I would. I'm getting hard just thinking about it. But the individuals who identify as conservative or Republican do so for reasons that they'd still likely follow to a new party afterwards. 

 

tl;dr: The two parties are far too massive and sprawling and without any true center to allow any gross generalizations. Also it's America as a whole that has serious fucking issues, not just the half of the country that calls themselves Republicans. 

Edited July 13, 2018 by auxien

[luke viia]

12 Russian Agents Indicted in Mueller Investigation

[chenGOD]

I know Idiocracy is set like 5 centuries in the future, but you can guys please hurry up and get Hector Camacho in office? The current reality show going on down there is getting worse by the minute.

[dingformung]

@auxien:

I agree for the most part and maybe I expressed myself too simple. I don't think every Republican is a bad person or a racist but every Republican supports racism by voting for this party more than someone who votes Democrats, maybe without knowing. My judgement of the American political system isn't based on a 4 year period, it's based on the history of the past decades: The wars and imperialism, the inequality within the country, the predatory capitalism. I'm sure most Americans want extended worker protection, more vacation, free healthcare and education and a peaceful relationship to other countries but this majority isn't represented by the government, no matter which party is in power. So there has to be something wrong with both parties and/or the structure of the political system. Of course this is a maybe naive outside perspective, I'm not very knowledgable about a lot of the details.

[YangYing]

to darreichs: 

You're not wrong, but also you're entirely wrong.

 

The vastness and complexities of the two major parties is in no way summarized by that, as I'm sure you'd admit, but I'm going to go so far as to say your summary is almost damaging if anything. It's obviously influenced partly by not being American: this is not a condemnation of it, I'm simply pointing out that you're attacking it all from one angle and that contributes to your incorrect summary, I'm hazarding to guess. 

 

Democrats are not part and parcel 'against large social programs' and I'd even argue that Republicans sometimes aren't either, they've been leaning more that way the last decades though. 

 

Some Republicans support racism, some are very much against racism. Most racists in America currently would identify as Republican if they were asked, but also these are racists and they're largely idiots, many of whom do not vote, don't actually care about politics in any real way. There's liberals who are racists too, that doesn't mean every Democrat is an evil sack of shit. Supporting the Republican national party right now does roundabout mean you're 'supporting racism' pretty much, yeah.

 

But this is not the entire picture, the Republican party (just like the Democratic) is splintered at every level, across 50+ states and territories, thousands of counties, and so ultimately just because John gives money to his local representative in his county, it doesn't mean he's a racist. Maybe he's just wanting to get the deficit in check and stupidly believes the Republican party can help that out. Maybe he hates racism and campaigns against it every chance he gets. One's political views does not define them as a person any more than buying an iPhone means that John wants to support slave-ish labor conditions in China (awkward example but I hope you get the idea). Should we all consider the larger aspects of things we participate in and support in one way or another? Yeah, of course, but ffs not everyone is going to do that all the time with literally everything. It's simply not going to happen. 

 

Ultimately you're wrong because the Dems and the Reps aren't really that different when it comes to actual actions carried out by the government. I'm not going to try to dig in on the intricacies of pushing bills through Congress (why you would know about this I dunno but maybe you're already well aware), but at the end of the day the D & R parties don't actually act that much different, so you're wrong because America as a whole, despite the party affiliations of individuals, supports 'racism and military buildup' indirectly or directly (via our tax dollars and unending stability). Republicans are only slightly more overt with these things recently, and you can't judge either party alone or within a 2 or 4 year period, you have to contextualize all of it otherwise you're missing the picture.

 

Like I said, there's nothing wrong with being a Republican. There's something wrong with lots of layers of the republican parties, donors, some supporters, etc., yes. Joe Schmoe in America who identifies as Republican? Nothing wrong with that on the face of it, you've gotta judge what kind of a Republican he is, why he's like that, what he's about, and so forth. That's why I took issue with ambermonk's original 'fuck all republicans' thing because yeah, I feel like that sometimes but also I have to step back and remind myself that it's not that simple, and falling into that bullshit is just harmful by definition. Would I be happy if the Republican party from the local up to the national level fell apart over the next two years? Fuck yes I would. I'm getting hard just thinking about it. But the individuals who identify as conservative or Republican do so for reasons that they'd still likely follow to a new party afterwards. 

 

tl;dr: The two parties are far too massive and sprawling and without any true center to allow any gross generalizations. Also it's America as a whole that has serious fucking issues, not just the half of the country that calls themselves Republicans.

 

great post m10

[Candiru]

That hearing yesterday where all the GOP representatives tried to scapegoat Strzok was one of the most infuriating/entertaining things I’ve seen in quite some time. But for some reason I never realized how desperate they really are until I watched it. You could smell their fear and petty insults which were trying to mask it.

 

Their strategy of giving a long misleading statement without framing it as a question, and then only letting Strzok respond “briefly” if at all was a stupid game i would have like to see called out more. The truth is going to fuck their shit up, I reckon.

[azatoth]

I know Idiocracy is set like 5 centuries in the future, but you can guys please hurry up and get Hector Camacho in office? The current reality show going on down there is getting worse by the minute.

 

Camacho was a better president than Trump. He actually acknowledged there was a problem and sought help to fix it.

[joshuatxuk]

 

I know Idiocracy is set like 5 centuries in the future, but you can guys please hurry up and get Hector Camacho in office? The current reality show going on down there is getting worse by the minute.

 

Camacho was a better president than Trump. He actually acknowledged there was a problem and sought help to fix it.

 

 

He also cut to the chase and admitted that he knows shit is fucked up right now.

[Braintree]

And his speeches are frighteningly more concise.

fake edit: I hovered on this page too long...

[zkom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDOPoU4FwGo

[sweepstakes]

That hearing yesterday where all the GOP representatives tried to scapegoat Strzok was one of the most infuriating/entertaining things I’ve seen in quite some time. But for some reason I never realized how desperate they really are until I watched it. You could smell their fear and petty insults which were trying to mask it.

 

Their strategy of giving a long misleading statement without framing it as a question, and then only letting Strzok respond “briefly” if at all was a stupid game i would have like to see called out more. The truth is going to fuck their shit up, I reckon.

Yeah that was a sight to behold. It blows my mind that such small-minded, smug mouthbreathers have managed to con their way into power. Goes to show you how sad most of the electorate is to put their money on these horses.

[Audioblysk]

 

That hearing yesterday where all the GOP representatives tried to scapegoat Strzok was one of the most infuriating/entertaining things I’ve seen in quite some time. But for some reason I never realized how desperate they really are until I watched it. You could smell their fear and petty insults which were trying to mask it.

 

Their strategy of giving a long misleading statement without framing it as a question, and then only letting Strzok respond “briefly” if at all was a stupid game i would have like to see called out more. The truth is going to fuck their shit up, I reckon.

Yeah that was a sight to behold. It blows my mind that such small-minded, smug mouthbreathers have managed to con their way into power. Goes to show you how sad most of the electorate is to put their money on these horses.

 

 

The one dude with the vitrue signaling 'How many times did you look into your wifes eyes and lie?!' --- so damn cringeworthy. 

 

'But the emails'

'Kilary'

'Bengazi'

 

ARGUMENT WON

[Braintree]

The sound of the room erupting while he was asking that question in addition to Strzok's little half smile was very satisfying.

[usagi]

 

 

That hearing yesterday where all the GOP representatives tried to scapegoat Strzok was one of the most infuriating/entertaining things I’ve seen in quite some time. But for some reason I never realized how desperate they really are until I watched it. You could smell their fear and petty insults which were trying to mask it.

 

Their strategy of giving a long misleading statement without framing it as a question, and then only letting Strzok respond “briefly” if at all was a stupid game i would have like to see called out more. The truth is going to fuck their shit up, I reckon.

Yeah that was a sight to behold. It blows my mind that such small-minded, smug mouthbreathers have managed to con their way into power. Goes to show you how sad most of the electorate is to put their money on these horses.

The one dude with the vitrue signaling 'How many times did you look into your wifes eyes and lie?!' --- so damn cringeworthy.

 

'But the emails'

'Kilary'

'Bengazi'

 

ARGUMENT WON

that Texas guy, srsly. get a grip.

[ambermonk]

Maybe I'm a little late to the party, but Ms. Coleman was absolute fucking fire in this bit. She put that pompous, sorry-ass excuse for a chairman in his place.

[Hk47]

This entire debocale is fucking ridiculous. I couldn't imagine keeping a straight face being grilled about personal texts that I had sent years ago.

Does anyone really think that FBI agents can't make friends with co-workers and speak candidly with them, while keeping that separate from their fucking job?

I can't help but roll my eyes at the entire fiasco.

[ignatius]

This entire debocale is fucking ridiculous. I couldn't imagine keeping a straight face being grilled about personal texts that I had sent years ago.

Does anyone really think that FBI agents can't make friends with co-workers and speak candidly with them, while keeping that separate from their fucking job?

I can't help but roll my eyes at the entire fiasco.

 

 

it's gotcha time for a lot of people to them this 'proves' deep state is out to get trump and it's a conspiracy. 

 

don't forget there's a lot of stupid people who still genuinely believe obama is a secret muslim and can't believe we elected a man named barack hussein obama. also, fox news. 

[ignatius]

so glad trey gowdy is going away. fucking hack. 

[azatoth]

Party over country is what the GOP is about. Are there any sane GOPers anymore or has the whole party been infested by Tea party wingnuts, white supremacists and conspiracy theorists? If there are any sane members left, they are complicit with their silence. Sure, there are those like Jeff Flake and McCain that are "deeply concerned" yet they vote lock-step with whatever the crazies propose. At least McCain is dead soon and Jeff Flake's outspokenness against Trump is just because he isn't going for re-election. 

It seems to me that Congress in America is more about getting re-elected and bending the knee to your donors than to actually represent the mooks that voted you in there.