Russia is now bombing Ukraine

[thefxbip]

You shall not quote The One Who Shall Not Be Named

[ambermonk]

What if there's more than one

[zlemflolia]

apparently its not a big deal that US and NATO have been funding neo Nazis in Ukraine leading up to this war lets not talk about anything that happened before it its a completely isolated incident right

[zlemflolia]

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/leader-of-neonazi-azov-battalion-reportedly-killed

NEONAZI forces from the notorious Azov Battalion were said to have suffered a heavy defeat in Ukraine on Thursday as fierce fighting continues.

The Donetsk People’s Republic militia claimed to have killed one of the fascist unit’s leaders, Artyom Murakhovsky, during a battle in the city of Avdiivka in Ukraine’s eastern Donbass region.

The battalion was also said to have suffered its biggest losses since the Russian invasion began on February 24 in the besieged Black Sea port city of Mariupol.

The Azov Battalion has its headquarters in the city, which it has been defending from Russian troops. 

Prior to the war the neonazi regiment had been training locals in Mariupol as part of a citizen’s militia, exercises which received widespread coverage in mainstream Western media.

Most however failed to explain that the soldiers photographed showing “babushkas” how to use combat rifles were in fact fascists responsible for horrific crimes in the Donbass region.

[zlemflolia]

3 hours ago, Alcofribas said:

In this thread you have explicitly condemned Putin and stated that you’re against the invasion. I believe you.
 

However, you are doubling and tripling down on posting disparate information attempting to drive the point that there are active nazis in Ukraine right now. It’s not clear to me why you’re doing this. 
 

For one thing, none of the evidence you’ve provided amounts to any kind of striking or alarming point that imo warrants to attention you are giving it. Like, the Veroufakis quote was quoted itt making the point that yes of course there are nazis, there are nazis in the US too but wouldn’t it be odd to point to them specifically over and over if the US was being invaded? So the question is: how much of a role do you think Nazis are playing in the Ukraine right now? Because tbh, if you think it’s a really significant issue, why don’t you support Putin’s invasion?

Which leads me to a second point. You seem to be concerned that the media are not covering the nazi problem and so you’ve taken it upon yourself to correct this gap. However, without really making an effort to critically lay out the nature of the problem, analyzing the real significance of nazis on the ground there and/or in the government itself, you are effectively just generating propaganda for Russia by substantiating the bullshit agenda Putin is providing for the invasion. So without supplying the forum with a detailed context and analysis, you’re just repeating “nazis nazis nazis” which is of course going to come across here as indistinguishable from a pro-Putin perspective. 
 

So imo if you really want to make a case about nazis I encourage you to try harder to really make that case, not just posting random stuff, some of which is anachronistic, some of which seems rather ambiguous, and some of which doesn’t seem useful at all. If you’re only point is that the western media are covering the conflict with bias - you’ve made that point, and frankly it’s an obvious one. 

Basically, you haven’t been successful in articulating a case that when we all look at the carnage falling upon the people of Ukraine that we should be thinking about nazis. Imo

im not articulating any grand cases, i want the war to end immediately, i want it to have ended the first day, i want it to have never happened.  i just hate nazis and am happy when they get killed by russian military and i hate the too close for comfort ties the ukrainian government, US, and NATO have to Ukrainian Nazis

strange how you cant criticize nazis when a war is happening even tho they have been waging war for like a decade in donbas region.  when can you talk about nazis? if you give me a clear timetable maybe i can work my schedule into figuring out when im allowed to complain about nazis and when im not allowed to

Edited March 26, 2022 by ilqx hermolia xpli

[maxwellsq]

ok , so I read last couple of pages of this thread. I think there is a misunderstanding about "nazis" here . If some military people are aggressively against Russia ,is that what makes them "nazi" ? and they have some reasoning .

[J3FF3R00]

We all hate nazis. I think we can all agree on that. Russia Just so happens to objectively be a much greater existential threat to the planet at the moment. 

[ghsotword]

4 minutes ago, maxwellsq said:

ok , so I read last couple of pages of this thread. I think there is a misunderstanding about "nazis" here . If some military people are aggressively against Russia ,is that what makes them "nazi" ? and they have some reasoning .

It's just one guy with some kind of a mental health problem who is siding with Putin and calling Ukrainians nazis in this thread. Don't pay attention to him

[maxwellsq]

2 minutes ago, ghsotword said:

It's just one guy with some kind of a mental health problem who is siding with Putin and calling Ukrainians nazis in this thread. Don't pay attention to him

I just don't get what he is trying to say . he posts some out of context news , writes some random thoughts about world order . me personally , I think he is either a complete fool or brainwashed, living in an illusion .He already told some absolute bullshit about my country , pretending that he better knows what is happening.

[ghsotword]

3 minutes ago, maxwellsq said:

I just don't get what he is trying to say . he posts some out of context news , writes some random thoughts about world order . me personally , I think he is either a complete fool or brainwashed, living in an illusion .He already told some absolute bullshit about my country , pretending that he better knows what is happening.

Yes, you are completely right in your assessment, the stuff he posts is out of context and/or bullshit.
How are you doing, are you still in Ukraine?

[ignatius]

31 minutes ago, J3FF3R00 said:

We all hate nazis. I think we can all agree on that. Russia Just so happens to objectively be a much greater existential threat to the planet at the moment. 

they also have some nazis. pretty much every country does.. even cummunist china. 

also, i'd say that giving ukraine a hard time right now about a small amount of far right nazis is like complaining that someone needs to do the dishes in the sink meanwhile someone outside is trying to burn the house down. 

also, @maxwellsq it's good to hear from you. 

don't get bogged down in all the communism vs capitalism stuff in this thread. it's unfortunate it takes that turn but some people are obsessed w/it. 

[Alcofribas]

2 hours ago, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

im not articulating any grand cases, i want the war to end immediately, i want it to have ended the first day, i want it to have never happened.  i just hate nazis and am happy when they get killed by russian military and i hate the too close for comfort ties the ukrainian government, US, and NATO have to Ukrainian Nazis

strange how you cant criticize nazis when a war is happening even tho they have been waging war for like a decade in donbas region.  when can you talk about nazis? if you give me a clear timetable maybe i can work my schedule into figuring out when im allowed to complain about nazis and when im not allowed to

This response is in bad faith. I’ve never suggested nazis are off topic or criticized you for discussing them. But obviously simply pointing out nazis and saying they are bad is not much of a point, right? Yet, you keep bringing this up over and over, even though I haven’t really seen much in the way of compelling evidence or argument pertaining to nazis being a significant force in the current war. So, amidst the broader discussion it’s the one thing you keep focusing on. It’s be nice if you made a point about it by now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[usagi]

I told you, bro. I warned you, dog! I warned you about bad faith!

[zlemflolia]

2 hours ago, Alcofribas said:

This response is in bad faith. I’ve never suggested nazis are off topic or criticized you for discussing them. But obviously simply pointing out nazis and saying they are bad is not much of a point, right? Yet, you keep bringing this up over and over, even though I haven’t really seen much in the way of compelling evidence or argument pertaining to nazis being a significant force in the current war. So, amidst the broader discussion it’s the one thing you keep focusing on. It’s be nice if you made a point about it by now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

>dont talk about events in this war unless it relates to the specific topics i think are relevant

somehow mainstream media cant take a picture of ukrainian soldiers without a black sun showing up in the background, top level government officials shaking hands with nazis and posing with them for photographs, integrating them into official military, ukrainian civilians giving personal testimony saying in their specific region, maybe not the region of ukrainian poster in this thread, azov is preventing them from leaving, videos of nazis killing civilians for fleeing, taking over apartment buildings and setting up birds nests, ukrainian civilians complaining about ukrainian military setting up artillery next to preschools, videos of ukrainian nazis taking advantage of the chaos of war to tape people to trees after taking their clothes off and let them get frostbitten genitals, whipping and beating them as they're tied up to stop sign polls, nazis beating roma people, let's not talk about any of this, we have to only talk about whatever it is you think is best fit to support whatever narrative you have

i dont claim to be anything but an idiot

i dont have a narrative or a goal, i just hate nazis, and theres a shitload of them in ukraine right now and they are going out doing violence and torture of civilians.  its not worth mentioning?  youd rather not know?  i dont get your narrative

Edited March 27, 2022 by ilqx hermolia xpli

[zlemflolia]

putin said he did this with denazification being one goal.  whether its true or not you decide.  how are nazis not relevant?  were supposed to pretend theres no nazis because it aligns with what putin said?  putin said he wants to denazify, so we have to respond by not talking about the real nazis and what they are doing because it makes it look like youre supporting putins claims? thats bullshit

the people of donbas terrorized by the ukrainian military and azov nazis for a decade have something else to say on the topic than you.  the minorities and roma people terrorized by nazis in ukraine and receiving pogroms have a different perspective.  you cant talk about it?

Edited March 27, 2022 by ilqx hermolia xpli

[zlemflolia]

cant talk about ukraine trying to genocide crimea, arguably a part of russia after the mostly russian people democratically decided they want to be a part of russia, ukraine cutting off their access to water = genocide, and how among the early actions of russia in this war was to return water to crimea?

[zlemflolia]

so yeah i dont have any narratives i dont like putin ive already made that clear hes a bourgeois piece of shit servant of the owning class of russia and and has many issues.  all i care about is the people.  the people of crimea want to be a part of russia and want to not be genocided by ukraine.  the people of donbas want to not be attacked by what is supposedly their own nation's military.  clearly they are not a part of the same nation, they are their own nation, and they should be allowed to be that.

zelensky should surrender and putin and biden should talk immediately, i dont give a shit about any other bullshit nationalist propaganda throwing all the men of ukraine at russia in a war they will lose, i prefer if they surrender immediately and meet putin's demands which are all extremely reasonable and will lead to less deaths if they listened, no theyd rather kill tons of people and resist denazification.

 

my only priority in these words is minimizing death, misery, destruction, etc.  apparently others have other ideas or somehow think a prolonged war will do that better?

Edited March 27, 2022 by ilqx hermolia xpli

[zlemflolia]

you people want some sort of marvel movie where the underdog fights and wins from universal truths or some bullshit, no ukraine cannot win against russia unless they get NATO support which they simply will not, US has been leading them on about NATO, zelensky should surrender and stop sacrificing ukrainian lives at the altar of nationalism

[zlemflolia]

3 hours ago, J3FF3R00 said:

We all hate nazis. I think we can all agree on that. Russia Just so happens to objectively be a much greater existential threat to the planet at the moment. 

the existential threat of the planet at the moment is ongoing nato encirclement of russia and refusing past promises to the soviets to not move an inch east, and refusing to let russia into nato.  US has always played fast and loose with their nuclear superpower equals since the cuban missile "crisis" up until now, US literally been funding neo-Nazi militias in Ukraine, you think russia won't notice or will just pretend "oh theyre not officially part of nato so it's not nato expansion or preparation".  im not seeing enough blaming US in this thread moreso blaming me for complaining about Nazis lmao

[zlemflolia]

fact is I want the war to end this very second, you guys dont, because what you want is impossible, for putin to just "stop", that's about all I've heard suggested in this thread apart from myself suggesting ukraine should surrender, so why talk as if you have a moral high ground over me when you have no material suggestions?  anyway ive written enough in here and wont get much substantial in response except little emote things

Edited March 27, 2022 by ilqx hermolia xpli

[Alcofribas]

zeff, you are a dogmatist pure and simple. The notion that you have no narratives could not be further from the truth. You are so consumed by narratives that you are providing cover for a thuggish regime change, parroting “de-nazification” rhetoric from a cartoonishly villainous Putin (who, grotesquely, you find “extremely reasonable”). Your worldview is nearly incoherent here, as it often is with all the cover you run for china. 
 

Your view boils down to Russia cannot be to blame because the US and NATO made them do it. That war is bad and Putin is bad, however, his demands - demands he’s attempting to force onto Ukraine by the brutalities of war - are actually reasonable to the extreme. Zelensky is to blame for not surrendering immediately and letting Biden and Putin decide the date of Ukraine. Etc etc. this is stupid shit man, I’m sorry. 

[psn]

Spamban already? 

[Alcofribas]

I think zeff should be able to post freely here but Papa should put him on everyone’s ignore list

Edited March 27, 2022 by Alcofribas

[chenGOD]

58 minutes ago, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

the existential threat of the planet at the moment is ongoing nato encirclement of russia and refusing past promises to the soviets to not move an inch east, and refusing to let russia into nato.

this may be the dumbest thing you've ever written on here, and that's saying a lot considering some of the things you've written, which will not be brought up again by me.

Essentially, at this point, I'm going to ask you to ease up on presenting "an alternative viewpoint" from the "lamestream media". I think we have been very reasonable in allowing you to present alternative points of view, but the above shit is just pure garbage. The biggest existential threat that isn't climate change is Russia moving aggressively through military force to expand its borders. You'll notice that NATO didn't have to invade anyone to bring people into the fold.

I think I've stood up for not censoring you with an honest effort. But if you continue along this vein, you will be suspended for the duration of the war.

[zlemflolia]

if you want to censor me from the thread do it, but don't pretend like you're making it my choice.  i will only ever write what I see hear and think, not whatever it is you want me to do instead.  keep fanning the flames of a war of ukrainian working class against russian working class rather than trying to support a resolution which puts aside petty notions of bourgeois border disputes.  keep putting the wishes of the crimean people below the wishes of the ukrainian bourgeois state.  keep putting the wishes of the people of donbas to stop being targeted by the ukrainian military below the wishes of the ukrainian bourgeois state.  you don't care at all about the people of ukraine, until now, because even bringing up the struggle of ukrainians who are targeted by the ukrainian state and by nazis and other types of ukrainian nationalists and fascists and their racist acts of violence is considered worthy of censorship now

Edited March 27, 2022 by ilqx hermolia xpli