Russia is now bombing Ukraine

[Amen Warrior]

The absolute worst thing about this war so far (apart from the civilian deaths, the humanitarian crises, the mass displacement of innocent people, the destruction of livelihoods, property, belongings etc) is me having to go on the internet and read the opinions of fucking stupid twats.

[chenGOD]

8 minutes ago, Amen Warrior said:

The absolute worst thing about this war so far (apart from the civilian deaths, the humanitarian crises, the mass displacement of innocent people, the destruction of livelihoods, property, belongings etc) is me having to go on the internet and read the opinions of fucking stupid twats.

FWP thread mate.

[J3FF3R00]

Mariupol residents are being forcibly deported to Russia, Ukraine says
https://www.npr.org/live-updates/ukraine-russia-troops-month-03-24-2022#mariupol-residents-are-being-forcibly-deported-to-russia-ukraine-says

Quote

Thousands of people who managed to endure Russia’s bloody siege of Mariupol are being deported to “filtration camps” in Russia, where screeners confiscate their passports and official papers, the Mariupol City Council and other Ukrainian agencies said on Thursday.

Under the Geneva Conventions, it is a war crime for an occupying power to deport people to other territories during an international conflict. But Ukrainian officials say the Russian military is doing exactly that, alleging that Russia is using Ukrainians as hostages.

Around 15,000 Mariupol residents are currently subject to illegal deportation, the city council said, adding that about 6,000 people have already been forcibly taken to Russian territory. The targeting of civilians and mass deportations are a repeat of Ukraine’s treatment by Nazi Germany during World War II, Mariupol Mayor Vadym Boychenko said.

Ukraine’s defense intelligence agency outlinedwhat happens when civilians are taken to a Russian filtration camp, saying that FSB agents first vet people for possible experience in military or law enforcement. Ukrainians are then “offered” official employment in economically depressed areas of Russia, the agency said. If Ukrainians agree to that arrangement, they’re given documents that bar them from leaving Russia for at least two years, the agency added.

International law permits an occupying power to send displaced people to foreign soil only if no other options exist — but Ukraine says Russia is working to eliminate or undermine those other options in Mariupol, including violating pledges of safe passage for evacuation corridors. The city council also says Russians are using a loudspeaker in a car to broadcast disinformation by claiming — falsely — that the city of Zaporizhzhya, a key evacuation point, is no longer accepting refugees.

“Russian troops continue to hold a humanitarian convoy of buses that arrived a few days ago from Mariupol from Zaporizhia,” Ukraine’s foreign affairs ministry said.

Mariupol has now been under sustained Russian attack for 22 days, the city council said, saying the ordeal has transformed the seaside city from a showcase for renewal into a place of horror and pain.

 

[zero]

another example of Russian media lying. they reported this guy dead within 20 minutes of landing in a city he was never in, in an attempt to dissuade other potential "mercenaries" from joining the fight against them:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wali-alive-despite-russian-disinformation-1.6393191

Quote

Marcus Kolga of the Macdonald-Laurier Institute runs a Canadian foreign disinformation monitoring and debunking platform. He looked into Wali's case and said it's clearly "Russian-government disinformation."

"The intent of this narrative is to discredit and discourage foreign volunteers," Kolga said. "It's also intended to demonstrate to Russian people the strength of Russian operations."

 

[zlemflolia]

nsfw

https://t.me/intelslava/23404

[chronical]

15 minutes ago, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

nsfw

https://t.me/intelslava/23404

Can't you just post the content?

[jaderpansen]

32 minutes ago, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

nsfw

https://t.me/intelslava/23404

get off telegram as long as you can.

[Dragon]

3 hours ago, J3FF3R00 said:

Mariupol residents are being forcibly deported to Russia, Ukraine says
https://www.npr.org/live-updates/ukraine-russia-troops-month-03-24-2022#mariupol-residents-are-being-forcibly-deported-to-russia-ukraine-says

 

this is really really fucking scary. i didn't hear about this type of activity, did i miss something? they're pulling people out of Ukraine and forcing them into Russian territory. this can be taken very, very far into an extremely disturbing situation (obvious post).

but really, send some links this way because i don't want to be out of the loop, if it's coming to this.

[Richie Sombrero]

34 minutes ago, Dragon said:

this is really really fucking scary. i didn't hear about this type of activity, did i miss something? they're pulling people out of Ukraine and forcing them into Russian territory. this can be taken very, very far into an extremely disturbing situation (obvious post).

but really, send some links this way because i don't want to be out of the loop, if it's coming to this.

Ukraine now claiming this has happened to 400,000 citizens according to Guardian.

Sounds an exaggeration but horrific all the same.

[zlemflolia]

https://www2.ljworld.com/news/general-news/2022/mar/23/an-email-urging-lower-wages-for-new-employees-due-to-higher-gas-prices-sparks-walkout-at-lawrence-applebees/

applebees using high gas prices caused by the war as an excuse to try to exploit workers harder

Edited March 24, 2022 by ilqx hermolia xpli

[marf]

So Europe has to pay in rubles for gas from Russia. Some are saying this is the end of the petrodollar. Saudi Arabia might start selling in Yuan instead of the dollar. The dark side is wining I think.

Is this a good time to buy gold? Build a bomb shelter? Arm myself?

[zazen]

1 hour ago, marf said:

Is this a good time to buy gold? Build a bomb shelter? Arm myself?

To cover all bases, I recommend you arm yourself with a gold bomb shelter.

Your comment about the petrodollar and Russia selling gas for rubles interested me and I hadnt heard about it so I went and found some links

https://www.politico.eu/article/germanys-scholz-rejects-putins-rubles-for-gas-demand/

https://realmoney.thestreet.com/investing/is-there-an-actual-threat-to-the-petrodollar-system--15943080

tbh the petrodollar thing is something I wasn't really aware of:

Quote

The Petrodollar system has been put in place since the 70s when the U.S. was a net importer of oil. A natural relationship was formed between Saudi Arabia and the U.S., where the former would sell its oil in exchange for the dollars earned to be reinvested into the U.S. Treasury market and security promises. The dollar has been the world's reserve currency and the currency basis for all commodities that have to be bought and sold in dollars.

Countries that buy oil would need to buy dollars via their local currency first to then buy the commodity, only to sell it back and receive the dollars and exchange it back to their local currency. This consistent demand for dollar is one of the reasons why it has maintained that reserve status. But if the bigger players decide to use another method of payment, then the system is at risk of breaking down. Wars have been fought to keep this system in place or to dissuade any member from trying to break away.

Why should I worry if China wants to pay for its oil in Yuan instead of dollars? Seems fair enough to me.

Russia wanting to sell its gas for rubles, to people who are supplying weapons to the people Russia ia trying to invade, is hard to take a clear view on. Like the modern relationship between nation states that are simulataneously trading with each other while criticising each other has layers of complexity. Which is the real relationship, the economic one (in which the states exchange goods and cash for mutual benefit) or the political one (in which the heads of state make speeches criticing each other). One is about basic needs and the other about principles.

I guess its like a supermarket that wants to knock your house down to build a new carpark that they dont really need, but you have to shop there anyway because there's no other shop for 20 miles. So you go there but you get to the checkout and they say 'well you chucked red paint all over our delivery van so we wont sell you this food unless you join our loyalty card scheme' and then you're thinking 'well, you cunt, I chucked paint on your van because you deliberately blocked my driveway with it' but the thought of getting the bus 20 miles to the other supermarket is a real drag so you stand there deciding whether to give in or not.

Having written that I guess I'd want Europe to tell Putin to shove his gas up his arse but in practice perhaps thats not economically feasible.

edit: afterthought: I'm not trying to belittle what Russia is doing at all with supermarket analogy, just trying to scale the unfathomable relationship between "giant super powerful potentially mass murdering nation states" down into something easier to reason about at a human level

Edited March 25, 2022 by zazen

[thefxbip]

On 3/23/2022 at 9:46 AM, zero said:

exactly man. as much as I would like all the other peaceful stuff you said to happen, I don't seriously believe it ever will. I mean just look at the history of mankind. tribes battling it out with one another. white dudes sailing around slaughtering the locals. there is a part of human nature that this desire to fight with other groups is ingrained, comes from the animal part of our DNA. militaries are never going to go away as long as different countries, languages, ethnicities, etc. are all present. there is never going to be a global peace on this planet unless maybe one tribe conquers all, which is what these arrogant dickheads like Hitler or Putin think they can do.   

Yeah... i guess peace is possible locally and in smaller areas for a while but probably never on a global scale. There will always be at least a few madman warchief going at it at any time.

Sight

So it goes.

 

 

[thefxbip]

On 3/24/2022 at 12:45 PM, J3FF3R00 said:

Mariupol residents are being forcibly deported to Russia, Ukraine says
https://www.npr.org/live-updates/ukraine-russia-troops-month-03-24-2022#mariupol-residents-are-being-forcibly-deported-to-russia-ukraine-says

 

fuckin hell...

[thefxbip]

Invasion. Dictatorship. And now camps.

 

[cwmbrancity]

@ilqx hermolia xpli you could edge out & form an alliance with Moldbug:

cue “no, that is not what I was aluding too Moldbug is fascist tech parasite....oh, hang on comrade”

[cichlisuite]

On 3/22/2022 at 10:34 PM, chenGOD said:

The US has been saying for years that Europe needs to increase defense spending (that's just a two year snapshot from 2012-2014). Sure, they may have sold arms to EU, but the EU is clearly capable of producing their own arms. Since the top 4 nations the US sells to are not in the EU (actually top 5 I guess, since the UK is not in the EU), it seems like it may have been a bit of both encouraging them to purchase arms from the US but also increase their own self-sufficiency. Regardless, Europe (including the EU) has long been an eager partner in NATO, so it's hardly a surprise that the US sells there.

Recent announcements by Germany will certainly increase sales in the short-term, but the Germans are more than capable of producing world class military equipment, as is the EU writ large (as an entity, not individual nations per se).

One thing is sure, US military tech is very advanced since they pour immense investments, talent and brain power in R&D. Also, modern military equipment is very expensive to research, manufacture, and integrate. The latter is as important as the hardware itself, since everything is in networks of command and control. So these solutions come almost "out-of-the-box" for the allies since they also need to share the infrastructure and command and control. I can understand how these solutions might be economically more viable, but at the same time the whole US approach comes in as monopolistic.

Their economic system of big defense contractors working for the government who itself pushes out for new markets through lobbying, alliances, and "pushing for increased defense spending" is actually a water-tight system that kind of defies the liberal free market ideas of the US. Basically, US government is this huge client with constant needs that uses foreign politics as a leverage to open new markets under different pretenses, including "national security" where military equipment is not available to any other nation outside the alliance. So the federal government with its aggressive foreign policy always ensures that the defense sector gets nice big contracts, while the contractors push for new tech to be sold, so this becomes some sort of evil feedback loop. So what you said about "US pushing for increased military spending" is of course right, but it's a tongue-in-cheek kind of thing, as in "we got all you'll ever need".

I was looking for the source where it uncovers how General Electric (and others) was buying up EU defense (and affiliated) firms as a measure to eliminate market competition, but unfortunately I can't find it anymore (it's been some years since I've read it), so that's unfortunate. IIRC is had to do with high-tech titanium turbine production (5th gen jet engines) and semi-conductors.

Bottom line is, yes, Germany and France are capable to produce first rate military equipment, but the over-reliance on US protection (because of lobbying that ensured markets for their programs), this capability is on the back foot, where the main production is more focused on civilian stuff, and going back to increased military production would mean re-structuring mass production to accommodate it, but also, several defense programs must be initiated first. This would require some long-term planning which EU is not doing, and the proof is the fact that Germany is now panic-buying F-35s. The Eurofighter program is also a symptom of this, because the platform is not multi-role, but rather an air superiority design.....yadayada lol

[apriorion]

23 hours ago, Dragon said:

this is really really fucking scary. i didn't hear about this type of activity, did i miss something? they're pulling people out of Ukraine and forcing them into Russian territory. this can be taken very, very far into an extremely disturbing situation (obvious post).

but really, send some links this way because i don't want to be out of the loop, if it's coming to this.

Man, this situation just keeps getting more and more depressing and frightening. The potential for genocide of the sort that Germany carried out after invading Poland seems to keep increasing with actions like these. Moreover, the situation as reported in that article seems like the modern version of what the Ancient Greeks used to do when they conquered a neighboring city-state: all of the surviving inhabitants were turned into slaves, in those days. The difference here appears to be that they have to sign a contract to stay in an impoverished part of Russia to work for them for no less than two years. But what then? Does anyone really expect Russia to take care of these people, especially when Putin has said things to indicate that he believes that Ukraine isn't real and Ukrainians don't have a right to exist? 

[zlemflolia]

26 minutes ago, cwmbrancity said:

@ilqx hermolia xpli you could edge out & form an alliance with Moldbug:

cue “no, that is not what I was aluding too Moldbug is fascist tech parasite....oh, hang on comrade”

i have no idea what youre even talking about.  that guys a piece of shit

Yarvin has been described as a neoreactionary^[6] and "neo-monarchist".^[

which he started in 2020, he argues that American democracy is a failed experiment^[10] which should be replaced by monarchy or corporate governance.^[11] He is known, along with fellow theorist Nick Land, for influencing the anti-egalitarian and anti-democratic movement known as the Dark Enlightenment.

 

youre trying to say i like him or something?  such bullshit slander, if youre going to insult me do it right

11 minutes ago, apriorion said:

Man, this situation just keeps getting more and more depressing and frightening. The potential for genocide of the sort that Germany carried out after invading Poland seems to keep increasing with actions like these. Moreover, the situation as reported in that article seems like the modern version of what the Ancient Greeks used to do when they conquered a neighboring city-state: all of the surviving inhabitants were turned into slaves, in those days. The difference here appears to be that they have to sign a contract to stay in an impoverished part of Russia to work for them for no less than two years. But what then? Does anyone really expect Russia to take care of these people, especially when Putin has said things to indicate that he believes that Ukraine isn't real and Ukrainians don't have a right to exist? 

this post reads as absurd to me

[thefxbip]

This is getting more brutal by day. 

Very scary to think what may come next...

[ignatius]

it's more awful every day. 

ukraine is getting lot's of tech from several countries. US, germany, UK... germany sent their version of the shoulder fired "tank killer".  

 

[chenGOD]

1 hour ago, cichlisuite said:

he proof is the fact that Germany is now panic-buying F-35s. The Eurofighter program is also a symptom of this, because the platform is not multi-role, but rather an air superiority design

I don't see that as proof at all. The two fighter planes serve very different roles. You can't just have an air force made up of F-35s.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/f-35-vs-eurofighter-typhoon-which-fighter-will-dominate-15535

https://www.flightglobal.com/in-focus-lockheed-claims-f-35-kinematics-better-than-or-equal-to-typhoon-or-super-hornet/108711.article

 

1 hour ago, cichlisuite said:

Germany and France are capable to produce first rate military equipment, but the over-reliance on US protection (because of lobbying that ensured markets for their programs), this capability is on the back foot, where the main production is more focused on civilian stuff, and going back to increased military production would mean re-structuring mass production to accommodate it,

Obviously, but I don't think the restructuring is going to be as significant as one might expect. Indeed, Germany, France, and Spain are already developing a next gen fighter. I don't disagree that there has been an over-reliance on the US, but again, I fail to see how it is a significant issue when NATO is doing what it was designed to do.

I'm sure sharper military minds (mine is not) will be able to explain it better, but I see the Trump recession into isolationism as a temporary bump in the US-EU relationship. Moving forward, the two blocs will deepen economic and military ties.

[zlemflolia]

look at this reuters propaganda, imagining putin wanted to take over all of ukraine, then attacking him for "[failing]" to do so when they end up setting more limited objectives.  its like they want him to do that or something. putin personally spoke the objectives at the beginning, and they are aligned still

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-first-phase-ukraine-operation-mostly-complete-focus-now-donbass-2022-03-25/

>LONDON, March 25 (Reuters) - In a scaled-back formulation of its war goals, Russia said on Friday that the first phase of its military operation was mostly complete and it would focus on completely "liberating" Ukraine's breakaway eastern Donbass region.

Edited March 25, 2022 by ilqx hermolia xpli

[cichlisuite]

12 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

I don't see that as proof at all. The two fighter planes serve very different roles. You can't just have an air force made up of F-35s.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/f-35-vs-eurofighter-typhoon-which-fighter-will-dominate-15535

https://www.flightglobal.com/in-focus-lockheed-claims-f-35-kinematics-better-than-or-equal-to-typhoon-or-super-hornet/108711.article

 

Obviously, but I don't think the restructuring is going to be as significant as one might expect. Indeed, Germany, France, and Spain are already developing a next gen fighter. I don't disagree that there has been an over-reliance on the US, but again, I fail to see how it is a significant issue when NATO is doing what it was designed to do.

No, you missed my point. The "proof" for the lack of EU 5th gen hardware readily available is Germany panic-buying F-35s. Which kind of ties into other points I was making in my post... You're now making a whole different point...

How viable the F-35 is as a military plane (for US or EU) is a very long and tiresome debate, it's also off topic. But we can go into it, if it's that important.

If Germany suddenly feel the need to step up their fighter game, Eurofighter + Tornado would do for the time being until FCAS doesn't bear fruit. But obviously, I'm not Luftwaffe's chief of staff.

 

[marf]

This war is just a stress test to show what America can do to you if it doesn't like what you are doing.. It's not about Ukraine. It's about scaring China, India, Saudi Arabia into switching out the petrodollar and into the Yuan. Which would destroy America. Just a theory.