Do you eat a lot of meat ?

[Boxus]

 

 

 

I eat of the flesh and it soothes me. Blood! Havoc! Put it in me

Are you concerned about the mass suffering of sentient beings upstream of your eating habits?

 

Or do you just avoid thinking about the moral impact of your actions?

Could you not tell from my hyperbolic tone that I blissfuly thrive on the misery of others?

I have autism, so you'll have to spell it out for me

Do you not eat meat? Was that the joke?

 

 

hah yeah I was being facetious. I do eat meat, but not voraciously. I try to go for the best options I can - free range, local farms, etc. Props to ya for your lifestyle, no disrespect.

 

And I fuckin love soy chorizo

[LimpyLoo]

It's all good, yo

This stuff is difficult...evolution designed us to eat meat, so it's a double bind no matter where you stand

Luckily, "artificial" meat is on its way (can't wait to have a steak!)

[Adieu]

Most of my diet was veggies with a decent amount of fish and occasional red meat. Was vegetarian through high school, years ago. My diet has gone off the rails in the last couple years, eating out all the time and lots of meat. Never realized how much I need dairy.

 

Veganism is very complex to maintain optimum health.To be honest, I don't know why anyone would decide to be vegan when you can conscientiously be a vegetarian and consume guilt-free things like eggs, clams, and oysters, but it's your life and your choice. 

 

You most definitely want to supplement Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Micro Algae Oil (in reasonably large quantities), and B12 (obv). Vitamin K2 is another consideration as well. You will probably not regularly be eating natto so there's basically nowhere that you'll be getting it. Throw in choline if you are having mental clarity issues.

 

Vitamin D3 is almost always sourced from either sheep or cod, so you're going to have to go out of your way to find one that is vegan friendly.

 

I would also suggest taking an amino acid supplement. You can get amino acids from things like quinoa, but you're not getting the full profile, and you probably won't be eating quinoa every day. You'll need to check on what amino acids are sourced from. I've not looked into it before.

 

It takes a few days for your gut bacteria to adjust to your new diet style, and most of your food cravings are going to come from the composition of your gut microbiome.

 

If you don't want to be eating constantly I would suggest gearing your diet towards fatty foods like mct oils, coconut oil, olive oil, nuts, and avocados. Fats sate the appetite a lot better than anything else, and eating carbs and sugars all the time will generally force you to feel food cravings all the time. On top of that, there is the potential cycle of feeding and crashing that occurs frequently with high carb and sugar intake. This is most frustrating when it  comes to focusing your brain and feeling mental clarity. There is also the issue of ATP trapping which occurs with constant fructose intake, and which will cause you to feel hungry all of the time.

 

Fats play an integral role in your sex hormone production. If you do not eat enough fat then your testosterone levels will drop and your overall energy and vitality will as well.

 

You also want to focus on getting enough protein, and that requires you to regularly eat a variety of foods. One of the common mistakes vegans/vegetarians make is not focusing enough on their protein intake. This leads to muscle wasting and weakness. You don't want that.

 

In this podcast Chris Kresser discusses some of the more common pitfalls of having a vegan/vegetarian diet and how to compensate for them. It's worth a listen.

 

 

He also wrote an article on some of the supplementation guidelines and he touches on the evolutionary component of how well your body will react to a vegan/vegetarian diet.

 

He mentions iron, calcium, and zinc which is notable.

 

https://chriskresser.com/why-you-should-think-twice-about-vegetarian-and-vegan-diets/

 

I know that he sort of slants his approach as "maybe don't do this", but just ignore it for the meat fruit and potatoes of the nutrient guidelines.

 

Anyone that tells you it's simple is a liar or uninformed though. Diet is not simple. Every piece of food creates a variable, and the addition or subtraction of food and nutrients causes cascading effects in your body that often have causes that are difficult to identify. 

 

My biggest issue with vegan/vegetarian diets is simply the amount of food you have to eat, and the amount of time you must spend eating. I don't want to eat all of the time, and I don't want to constantly be hungry. That's one of the reasons I prefer a ketogenic diet.

 

Good luck with your diet though. You'll definitely benefit from the increased micro-nutrient intake, and the decrease in animal products.

[caze]

I'm a non-practicing vegan.

[Adieu]

It's all good, yo

This stuff is difficult...evolution designed us to eat meat, so it's a double bind no matter where you stand

Luckily, "artificial" meat is on its way (can't wait to have a steak!)

 

I think the argument is more like, meat allowed us to evolve into what we are today. It allowed us to spend less time eating by utilizing higher nutrient dense foods that were relatively easy to acquire. This allowed us time to develop our thinking through experimentation and socialization. The increase in nutrients also benefitted our brains and bodies by improving our health and mental capability. Chris Kresser talks about it in that podcast actually. How we have it backwards these days, we eat the muscle meats which are less nutritious instead of the organ meats. Historically we would eat the organ meats, and apparently animals prefer organ meats for this very reason. 

 

I think this is one of the important things to consider; Certain cultures have developed through centuries of vegetarianism which completely alters the way they react to that specific type of diet. If you take your average american anglo they simply have not had the time to alter their gene expression in a way that suits vegetarianism more freely. That isn't to say you cannot begin that process now, but it does improve the way your body reacts to it if you come from generations of vegetarians.

[manmower]

Yeah if you eat a lot of processed fatty crap like all the oil Adieu is suggesting then you run the risk of malnutrition and probably need to supplement more. But why eat all those 'empty' calories and then supplement for nutrition when you can eat something nutritious in the first place. Keep the supplementation for those things you can't get from ethical and healthy sources.

 

Although I have to be fair, I did forget to mention one thing, not really a supplement but I do add a good tablespoon of ground flaxseed to my cereal every morning for the essential fatty acid ALA (in addition to the EPA/DHA gel caps). Other fats are called non-essential for a reason. You'll do completely fine with little or even no saturated and mono-unsaturated fat in your diet.

[LimpyLoo]

Adieu has got this stuff down to a science (so to speak)

[Adieu]

Yeah if you eat a lot of processed fatty crap like all the oil Adieu is suggesting then you run the risk of malnutrition and probably need to supplement more. But why eat all those 'empty' calories and then supplement for nutrition when you can eat something nutritious in the first place. Keep the supplementation for those things you can't get from ethical and healthy sources.

 

Although I have to be fair, I did forget to mention one thing, not really a supplement but I do add a good tablespoon of ground flaxseed to my cereal every morning for the essential fatty acid ALA (in addition to the EPA/DHA gel caps). Other fats are called non-essential for a reason. You'll do completely fine with little or even no saturated and mono-unsaturated fat in your diet.

 

Well you said a lot of incorrect things that I have to correct you on but unfortunately I'm working on something so it will have to wait until afterwards.

[eugene]

 

hi my name is eugene and i went vegan a week ago. it's surprisingly easy to go vegan, plan your diet and find the right subsitutues on your lonesome (still dunno if i'm getting all the right vitamins and shit, but i'm feeling totally fine so far #noissues). i could literally live on just falafels, beans and hummums and a few types of nuts and seeds and fruit till i'm dead. but it's quite difficult in social settings as everyone now sees you as a faggot and the places you used to like have very limited options and you have to be all faggy when it comes to coming to your bros' places when it comes to food.

 

also, is there a deece app that will monitor your nutrition including vitamins and other stuff? i haven't really found anything appropriate for some reason.

 

sup vegans.

 

All you need in terms of supplements are B12 and some algae-based EPA/DHA. And like everyone regardless of what they eat you should consider vitamin D unless you spend a lot of time naked in the sun.

 

Other than that don't worry too much about nutrition. Make starchy foods your staples (whole grains, legumes, potatoes, quinoa...) and eat a variety of other veggies and fruit and your diet is bound to be a lot more nutrient dense than most.

 

If you really need to measure you can try Cron-O-Meter, it's pretty US-centric but works fine if you eat mostly whole foods. Just don't expect to find a lot of pre-packaged processed items from your neck of the woods on there.

 

glhf

 

yeah the b12 warning signs are all over vegan websites so i'm aware of this. the epa /dha thing is new for me though, will check it out in depth.

 

the difficulty of getting a suitable app is clear to me now, it'd have to have access to a shit ton of local products to do it properly, so i doubt something like that is available.

 

had the chance to have vegan cheese today, the texture was very similar to real cheese, but taste wise..it kinda tasted like nothing, literally no taste whatsoever. like air in cheese form. fucking expensive too.

 

[keanu reeves]

I was actually on the keto thing for two months just prior to this and found my body did not react well. Was constantly tired, bloated, irritable. I have yet to see any science that suggests long term ketosis is of any benefit. Maybe for endurance athletes, which I am not.

I found vegetarianism easy and was pretty strict about it into my early twenties, then began traveling a lot and developed a strong taste for meat. In the last year (I'm 33) I've put on about thirty pounds. Was always fairly lean and athletic but I also stress eat and have whole weeks where I'll let my diet go to shit because of work or whatever. Tried to stop that with keto but it just wasn't working for me. It promoted an extremely obsessive relationship to food that I don't feel is healthy at all.

As for what that guy on Rogan says, you can always find sources of vitamins and minerals in alternative foods. Just for iron, blackstrap molasses on oatmeal will satisfy most of your daily intake. My big problem right now is breaking my dairy habit. I ate a lot of cheese, it's kind of a staple food for me and I don't see viable alternatives in terms of taste in a vegan diet. Veganism seems like the morally superior path if you are concerned about animal welfare, but even then I'm a little shaky. I may end up going back to vegetarianism, it seems like the most natural human diet.

[Joyrex]

I was actually on the keto thing for two months just prior to this and found my body did not react well. Was constantly tired, bloated, irritable. I have yet to see any science that suggests long term ketosis is of any benefit. Maybe for endurance athletes, which I am not.

I found vegetarianism easy and was pretty strict about it into my early twenties, then began traveling a lot and developed a strong taste for meat. In the last year (I'm 33) I've put on about thirty pounds. Was always fairly lean and athletic but I also stress eat and have whole weeks where I'll let my diet go to shit because of work or whatever. Tried to stop that with keto but it just wasn't working for me. It promoted an extremely obsessive relationship to food that I don't feel is healthy at all.

As for what that guy on Rogan says, you can always find sources of vitamins and minerals in alternative foods. Just for iron, blackstrap molasses on oatmeal will satisfy most of your daily intake. My big problem right now is breaking my dairy habit. I ate a lot of cheese, it's kind of a staple food for me and I don't see viable alternatives in terms of taste in a vegan diet. Veganism seems like the morally superior path if you are concerned about animal welfare, but even then I'm a little shaky. I may end up going back to vegetarianism, it seems like the most natural human diet.

I suffered similar problems until recently - what worked for me is keeping myself to a 1500 calorie daily diet, and using an app called My Fitness Pal to track my caloric intake (has a database of foods you can look up and add so you have a good idea of how many calories you are consuming). I also try and walk at least 2 miles each day, and really don't eat differently other than avoiding high-calorie foods and sugars.

 

I've been on it 100 days straight now, and I've dropped 18 pounds - this is the first real weight-loss method I've found where it's not a chore, and isn't hard to do. I'm fairly sedentary other than walking, so I'm sure if I increased my physical activity, I'd lose even more weight with this method. As it stands though, I only need to lose about 10 more pounds to reach a weight I feel is good for my height and build.

[watmmisdead]

Been vegan for two weeks. I have never been more miserable in my life. Someone told me there is a cheese like substance called nutritional yeast that I can sprinkle on food. I tried it. It tastes like crushed vitamins. I don't think I'll make it to Friday.

gotta eat lentils, beans, good recipe with tofu, nuts, oats, hemp seeds, quinoa. I buy 10lbs of hemp seeds every couple of months and take 10 grams everyday. eat tofu every week abuot 2 times a week. eat oats every day. Bought 50 lbs of quinoa and I eat every week multiple times a week. I allow myself eggs from a good farm.

you need to have enough protein and make sure to understand what are pure protein aliments. thats the 'hardest' part

http://greatist.com/health/complete-vegetarian-proteins

[koolkeyZ865]

I'm a pretty heavy meat eater but I would never support big meat (like Tyson). Only local farms or self killed meat.

[dr lopez]

hi my name is eugene and i went vegan a week ago. it's surprisingly easy to go vegan, plan your diet and find the right subsitutues on your lonesome (still dunno if i'm getting all the right vitamins and shit, but i'm feeling totally fine so far #noissues). i could literally live on just falafels, beans and hummums and a few types of nuts and seeds and fruit till i'm dead. but it's quite difficult in social settings as everyone now sees you as a faggot and the places you used to like have very limited options and you have to be all faggy when it comes to coming to your bros' places when it comes to food.

 

also, is there a deece app that will monitor your nutrition including vitamins and other stuff? i haven't really found anything appropriate for some reason.

 

sup vegans.

faggot.

 

anyway i love my fitbit app for monitoring everything but youll probably think its really "corporate" or something.

 

luv u!

 

- dlo

[Audioblysk]

Been vegan for two weeks. I have never been more miserable in my life. Someone told me there is a cheese like substance called nutritional yeast that I can sprinkle on food. I tried it. It tastes like crushed vitamins. I don't think I'll make it to Friday.

 

Whomever told you that nutritional yeast is a substitute for cheese is a total cunt. It's basically just b-vitamins, which is why it tasted like vitamins. 

 

I've tried going veg or vegan in the past and didn't stick for longer than a few months. I mostly like fish/sea-critters and chicken for protein and then eat loads of things that grow from roots n trees n such. I just can't abide by a strict diet aside from just not eating a ton of shit or meat in every meal. I'm a big fan of southern cooking including but not limited to - BBQ, Creole, Cajun ect. But I also eat salads like a brontosaurus. NO CHEW, LET THEM STOMACH STONES DO THE WORK.   

[Lewps]

Eat a lot of meat, don't know where it comes from. Might go vegan and make my diet my personality in my 30's.

srsly though I could become a vegetarian if/ when I'm less self centered.

[cwmbrancity]

i love bacon, so much so its now been rationed for a good few years

 

and fish, but sustainable species and things my younger brothers donate from sea fishing ventures which fkn rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrock

 

you can not beat fresh pan fried fish imho, with a light salad n maybe just maybe some sauteed/roast spuds

 

everything in moderation, *amendment for no booze* and i've never been in better shape or more fit (cue impending heart attack)

[manmower]

 

Yeah if you eat a lot of processed fatty crap like all the oil Adieu is suggesting then you run the risk of malnutrition and probably need to supplement more. But why eat all those 'empty' calories and then supplement for nutrition when you can eat something nutritious in the first place. Keep the supplementation for those things you can't get from ethical and healthy sources.

 

Although I have to be fair, I did forget to mention one thing, not really a supplement but I do add a good tablespoon of ground flaxseed to my cereal every morning for the essential fatty acid ALA (in addition to the EPA/DHA gel caps). Other fats are called non-essential for a reason. You'll do completely fine with little or even no saturated and mono-unsaturated fat in your diet.

 

fat causes malnutrition? very interesting, because i've been on a high fat - low carb (<20g per day) diet for the past two months and i've put on more muscle than i ever have in my life and feel energized from the moment i wake up until i go to sleep. definitely not malnourished :)

 

you seem ignorant about recent discoveries on the benefits of fat in the diet and i would recommend that you read up before you give (potentially harmful) advice to other people. all fats other than trans fat have a place in a balanced diet.

 

 

Fat causes malnutrition? That isn't what I wrote at all. There are nutritious fatty foods but oils are not nutritious. You could have at least had the decency to read my post properly but whatever.

 

I'm aware of the research you mention but I take my advice from people who review the whole literature, not just a subset of 'hot' and potentially misleading studies. The national health council here came out with their food guidelines just last month, they discuss the trendy fat studies too but in the end the essential fatty acids, carbohydrates, and protein remain the only nutrients for which they specify minimum and recommended intakes. All other fats only get a maximum intake above which they can become harmful. That doesn't mean they have no place in a balanced diet, but it does mean that it's not required to consume many very high fat whole foods (like nuts, seeds, olives, avocado etc.), let alone oils. I wouldn't be surprised if all the oats I eat alone already put my fat consumption over 10% of my caloric intake.

 

I don't know what the big deal is with the muscle either. People in blue zones don't tend to look like bodybuilders.

[hello spiral]

:^)

[Adieu]

I was actually on the keto thing for two months just prior to this and found my body did not react well. Was constantly tired, bloated, irritable. I have yet to see any science that suggests long term ketosis is of any benefit. Maybe for endurance athletes, which I am not.

I found vegetarianism easy and was pretty strict about it into my early twenties, then began traveling a lot and developed a strong taste for meat. In the last year (I'm 33) I've put on about thirty pounds. Was always fairly lean and athletic but I also stress eat and have whole weeks where I'll let my diet go to shit because of work or whatever. Tried to stop that with keto but it just wasn't working for me. It promoted an extremely obsessive relationship to food that I don't feel is healthy at all.

As for what that guy on Rogan says, you can always find sources of vitamins and minerals in alternative foods. Just for iron, blackstrap molasses on oatmeal will satisfy most of your daily intake. My big problem right now is breaking my dairy habit. I ate a lot of cheese, it's kind of a staple food for me and I don't see viable alternatives in terms of taste in a vegan diet. Veganism seems like the morally superior path if you are concerned about animal welfare, but even then I'm a little shaky. I may end up going back to vegetarianism, it seems like the most natural human diet.

 

Generally if you're having issues with the GI tract when doing a LCHF diet it's from two sources:

 

A) using too much mct/coconut oil - it takes a while to work up to being able to take large doses of these without GI discomfort. Coconut oil is easier to handle sooner. I actually do not use MCT Oil anymore, because it generally does not contain lauric acid, something I desire to have in my diet, and it also is easier to upset your stomach with even after long term use. I do however really like powdered mct's and exogenous ketones. Both are easy on the GI tract, and very convenient. Dosing some exogenous ketones like ketocana before a workout makes a huge difference in performance.

 

B) Having a compromised gut microbiome. in general if you are suffering from this your gut is going to be more sensitive to everything and you will experience things like diarrhea much more frequently. Personally after all the work I've put in to fix my gut and improve my resiliency I almost never have an upset stomach. I would say less than 1 time a month no matter what I eat, and I definitely eat shitty foods on the weekends. Having a bad diet for any length of time, even as little as a week, will severely impact the health and diversity of your microbiome, and it's necessary for everyone to use some methods of improving their gut health.

 

I recommend approaching healing your gut by first using foods and supplements that will clean it out, and then using methods of bacteria repopulation coupled with supplements and foods that promote gut epithelial regeneration.

 

I personally don't think eating LCHF is promoting an unhealthy relationship with food. I found that my ability to add carbohydrate back into my diet was directly linked to how active I was being. being more phsyically active and doing more strength training gives you more wiggle room for how high your carb intake is. I also tend to eat what I want when I want, and focus more on rebounding using exogenous sources to get me back into ketosis when I desire to. The biggest benefit I've found is that I have a much increased metabolic flexibility so when I do eat carbs I handle them much better than I used to.

 

As far as what foods you choose, generally you just eat veggies with lots of fat and some protein, and low glycemic foods all around with some fats to help you remain in ketosis. I even eat low sugar fruits regularly.

 

I think what chris kresser was saying mostly is that a vegetarian diet is innately insufficient for most people, and it also requires a pretty educated approach to properly execute. something that most people don't understand, and why a lot of people go vegetarian and feel amazing for a few years and then hit a plateau and don't understand what is happening. Same with veganism.

 

I think I've spoken on the sort of intellectually dishonest concept that veganism is superior from an animal welfare standpoint. You cannot farm without killing massive amounts of animals including larger mammals like baby deer. It causes habitat displacement. Furthermore, grazing animals play a necessary role in keeping soil fertile for farming. If you take them out of the equation, not only are you doing something seriously unnatural and disrupting the built in cycle for soil regeneration, but you're also going to be using methods that are not great for the environment to reach the same ends.

 

I've seen people promoting the concept that a properly grazed grassfed cow is environmentally neutral. I think this makes sense, but obviously the commercial meat industry is not appropriately raising animals. Hopefully the current trend of free range, pasture raised, and grassfed becomes the industry standard.

 

 

I was actually on the keto thing for two months just prior to this and found my body did not react well. Was constantly tired, bloated, irritable. I have yet to see any science that suggests long term ketosis is of any benefit. Maybe for endurance athletes, which I am not.

I found vegetarianism easy and was pretty strict about it into my early twenties, then began traveling a lot and developed a strong taste for meat. In the last year (I'm 33) I've put on about thirty pounds. Was always fairly lean and athletic but I also stress eat and have whole weeks where I'll let my diet go to shit because of work or whatever. Tried to stop that with keto but it just wasn't working for me. It promoted an extremely obsessive relationship to food that I don't feel is healthy at all.

As for what that guy on Rogan says, you can always find sources of vitamins and minerals in alternative foods. Just for iron, blackstrap molasses on oatmeal will satisfy most of your daily intake. My big problem right now is breaking my dairy habit. I ate a lot of cheese, it's kind of a staple food for me and I don't see viable alternatives in terms of taste in a vegan diet. Veganism seems like the morally superior path if you are concerned about animal welfare, but even then I'm a little shaky. I may end up going back to vegetarianism, it seems like the most natural human diet.

I suffered similar problems until recently - what worked for me is keeping myself to a 1500 calorie daily diet, and using an app called My Fitness Pal to track my caloric intake (has a database of foods you can look up and add so you have a good idea of how many calories you are consuming). I also try and walk at least 2 miles each day, and really don't eat differently other than avoiding high-calorie foods and sugars.

 

I've been on it 100 days straight now, and I've dropped 18 pounds - this is the first real weight-loss method I've found where it's not a chore, and isn't hard to do. I'm fairly sedentary other than walking, so I'm sure if I increased my physical activity, I'd lose even more weight with this method. As it stands though, I only need to lose about 10 more pounds to reach a weight I feel is good for my height and build.

 

 

for me I found that LCHF was the only diet type that was easy for me to execute, because it keeps me from feeling hungry and craving shitty food. Especially after I removed most of the sugar from my diet and fixed my gut, I no longer craved sugar. If you increase your muscle mass by doing high-intensity interval training, something you can do in as little as 30 minutes a day and in a 10x10 space with little equipment, you will see an increased in your ability to burn calories, and you won't have to pay attention to caloric intake at all. This is coming from a person that used to not be able to keep my weight consistent in anyway whatsoever and I would yo-yo up and down as much as 40 lbs.

 

 

 

Yeah if you eat a lot of processed fatty crap like all the oil Adieu is suggesting then you run the risk of malnutrition and probably need to supplement more. But why eat all those 'empty' calories and then supplement for nutrition when you can eat something nutritious in the first place. Keep the supplementation for those things you can't get from ethical and healthy sources.

 

Although I have to be fair, I did forget to mention one thing, not really a supplement but I do add a good tablespoon of ground flaxseed to my cereal every morning for the essential fatty acid ALA (in addition to the EPA/DHA gel caps). Other fats are called non-essential for a reason. You'll do completely fine with little or even no saturated and mono-unsaturated fat in your diet.

 

fat causes malnutrition? very interesting, because i've been on a high fat - low carb (<20g per day) diet for the past two months and i've put on more muscle than i ever have in my life and feel energized from the moment i wake up until i go to sleep. definitely not malnourished :)

 

you seem ignorant about recent discoveries on the benefits of fat in the diet and i would recommend that you read up before you give (potentially harmful) advice to other people. all fats other than trans fat have a place in a balanced diet.

 

 

Fat causes malnutrition? That isn't what I wrote at all. There are nutritious fatty foods but oils are not nutritious. You could have at least had the decency to read my post properly but whatever.

 

I'm aware of the research you mention but I take my advice from people who review the whole literature, not just a subset of 'hot' and potentially misleading studies. The national health council here came out with their food guidelines just last month, they discuss the trendy fat studies too but in the end the essential fatty acids, carbohydrates, and protein remain the only nutrients for which they specify minimum and recommended intakes. All other fats only get a maximum intake above which they can become harmful. That doesn't mean they have no place in a balanced diet, but it does mean that it's not required to consume many very high fat whole foods (like nuts, seeds, olives, avocado etc.), let alone oils. I wouldn't be surprised if all the oats I eat alone already put my fat consumption over 10% of my caloric intake.

 

I don't know what the big deal is with the muscle either. People in blue zones don't tend to look like bodybuilders.

 

 

I mean you more or less said fat causes malnutrition. Whether you want to say it's specifically related to oil intake, which it's not, and whether fat containing foods are significantly different is fine, but it's not really accurate.

 

MCT's/Coconut oil have massive benefits. Olive oil is very good for you although not the best oil for cooking because it does oxidize at higher heats. 

 

Fatty oils and supplements may not be nutrient dense, but they are not "empty calories". Your body utilizes fat in very specific ways, and an increase in fat intake has many notable benefits.

 

a) increased metabolic flexibility

b) increase in metabolism/thermogenesis

c) increase in food palatibility which means you'll actually consume more of the nutrient dense healthy foods

d) increase in nutrient absorption most notably from vegetables

e) increase in feelings of energy and satiety although protein helps with this as well

f) better functioning mitochondria

g) energy that requires 0 metabolic processes, more efficient energy

h) better athletic performance/endurance

 

People in blue zones tend to eat lots of fats, oils, and animal products also. Weird that you mention blue zones, and there's a huge difference between a bodybuilder and having a good body composition. The stereotypical vegan/vegetarian is gaunt and shows lots of signs of muscle wasting for a reason. They generally are, because the diet is being improperly executed. 

 

I'd be super interested to see what the body compositions are of all the vegans and vegetarians on this forum, because generally the LCHF people have better body compositions and carry more muscle, something that is correlated with lots of various factors related to aging in a healthy way.

 

and your nonsense about government health authorities recommending specific things is irrelevant, even more so, your claims of "fad" science. LCHF has been studied and applied for 200 years. The health benefits are very well documented. Are you even aware that it recently came out that the sugar industry suppressed negative research findings about sugar intake, and also promoted the skewed findings from research they funded themselves concerning fat intake? That's basically where the low fat craze that ruined so many people's health and quality of life came from.

 

You can think about it in a very general way, if you remove fat from foods you have to replace it with something to make it palatable and able to provide energy. That was sugar. That's why you almost cannot find anything in a gas station in the USA that isn't extremely high in sugar. Thankfully more options are becoming available but it's not common. Sugar has a negative effect on the people's ability to control their food cravings, so they eat more and overeat regularly. High sugar intake is related to numerous diseases so people get sick a lot.

 

And generally recommending that people eat high carbs is not functional for a lot of people especially people that have had their body compromised by poor diet and lifestyle already and possibly coupled with medical interventions like antibiotic use. One size does not fit all.

[eugene]

I think I've spoken on the sort of intellectually dishonest concept that veganism is superior from an animal welfare standpoint. You cannot farm without killing massive amounts of animals including larger mammals like baby deer. It causes habitat displacement. Furthermore, grazing animals play a necessary role in keeping soil fertile for farming. If you take them out of the equation, not only are you doing something seriously unnatural and disrupting the built in cycle for soil regeneration, but you're also going to be using methods that are not great for the environment to reach the same ends.

 

I've seen people promoting the concept that a properly grazed grassfed cow is environmentally neutral. I think this makes sense, but obviously the commercial meat industry is not appropriately raising animals. Hopefully the current trend of free range, pasture raised, and grassfed becomes the industry standard.

that's not true as animals need food too, just from energy conversion pov this doesn't make sense.

"free range" and "grasfed" are of course bullshit terms when it comes to ethical reasons.

[Adieu]

 

I think I've spoken on the sort of intellectually dishonest concept that veganism is superior from an animal welfare standpoint. You cannot farm without killing massive amounts of animals including larger mammals like baby deer. It causes habitat displacement. Furthermore, grazing animals play a necessary role in keeping soil fertile for farming. If you take them out of the equation, not only are you doing something seriously unnatural and disrupting the built in cycle for soil regeneration, but you're also going to be using methods that are not great for the environment to reach the same ends.

 

I've seen people promoting the concept that a properly grazed grassfed cow is environmentally neutral. I think this makes sense, but obviously the commercial meat industry is not appropriately raising animals. Hopefully the current trend of free range, pasture raised, and grassfed becomes the industry standard.

that's not true as animals need food too, just from energy conversion pov this doesn't make sense.

"free range" and "grasfed" are of course bullshit terms when it comes to ethical reasons.

 

 

cows eat grass, cows make soil fertile for farming and also naturally till soil by walking over it, we eat cows. That does makes sense from a cyclical standpoint. Apparently properly grazed soil contains methane eating bacteria that at least improves the environmental impact of raising cows for food. Some argue it makes their impact neutral.

 

I don't see killing and eating food as unethical. I know that vegan/vegetarians would love for it to be unhealthy to eat animals so they could further promote the idea that it's both unethical and unhealthy but the science doesn't back that up.

[eugene]

 

cows eat grass, cows make soil fertile for farming and also naturally till soil by walking over it, we eat cows. That does makes sense from a cyclical standpoint.

dunno wtf cyclical standpoint means here. it's pretty clear that you lose a lot of energy by "converting" plants into cow meat and then eating cows compared to eating plants yourself without involving the cows.

 

I don't see killing and eating food as unethical.

i think causing unnecessary suffering is unethical by definition.

 

I know that vegan/vegetarians would love for it to be unhealthy to eat animals so they could further promote the idea that it's both unethical and unhealthy but the science doesn't back that up.

don't see a problem with misleading the public in this regard, the ends justify the means pretty clearly here.

[beerwolf]

If I had a choice between either eating cheap, sketchy sourced meat or high quality veggie food I'd become a vegetarian, I guess I'm lucky I don't.

 

When I had to become a 100% veggie for 5 months traveling in India I really struggled, I didn't feel any better, or felt any healthier, in fact the opposite. Funny when I was trekking I was with a posh doctor from Oxford who reckoned some humans are better developed to not eat meat than others, I remember him laughing and putting me firmly in the meat eating category. After five months I was having burning fantasies/dreams about eating meat.. Having said that in a perfect world I'd like to be 65% veggie, 35% meat (fish or beast). I get the whole deal with being veggie. Vegans not so sure about, I think they don't get the same chemical reactions and a smile on my face I do when I see a plate of food.

[Adieu]

 

 

cows eat grass, cows make soil fertile for farming and also naturally till soil by walking over it, we eat cows. That does makes sense from a cyclical standpoint.

dunno wtf cyclical standpoint means here. it's pretty clear that you lose a lot of energy by "converting" plants into cow meat and then eating cows compared to eating plants yourself without involving the cows.

 

I don't see killing and eating food as unethical.

i think causing unnecessary suffering is unethical by definition.

 

I know that vegan/vegetarians would love for it to be unhealthy to eat animals so they could further promote the idea that it's both unethical and unhealthy but the science doesn't back that up.

don't see a problem with misleading the public in this regard, the ends justify the means pretty clearly here.

 

 

humans don't eat grass. cows do. so there is no loss there. it's actually a again, because grazing animals makes arid lands fertile, and could potentially be used to make all of the dry lands on the earth fertile again. but soil has to be kept fertile and farming it depletes the nutrients from the soil. This is actually a really big issues with nutrient density in vegetables already. They are less dense than in the past due to farming practices, and many of the nutrients in them are lost due to being sensitive to handling/traveling/packaging, etc.

 

Plants don't want to be eaten either. you forget this. they also communicate with each other about potential threats. Plants also contain antinturients that were formulated as a defense mechanism against being eaten. Plants are alive and they want to be alive.

 

The only 100% ethical diet is frutarian and that's insanely bad for you.

 

I don't consider doing what I'm naturally designed to do as unethical. animals are food. very efficient food. the entire basis of humans being what we are today is likely from consuming the extremely nutrient dense animals we consumed that enabled us to create society and culture.

 

EDIT: also forgot to mention that the process of consuming the cow that has consumed grass allows you to more readily access nutrients you otherwise wouldn't be able too. so the efficiency argument is bunk.