Nine Inch Nails - Hesitation Marks

[zupiclone]

I'm not one of those guys who think rich depressed people dont deserve sympathy, if you are depressed it sucks no matter what position in life you are.

 

My problem with this new album is that the lyrics (from what we heard) sound disingenuous and forced (dont ask me why, i have a gut feeling and im pretty good at spotting fake emotions and stuff). I believe he is just trying to do TDS part II but hes not in the same state of mind so hes just faking everything.

 

 

and rich aside, money doesn't always bring happiness etc, he's married to a beautiful wife, unless she's also depressed and thats worked out

or has the rare ability to put up with it (there is always the money), he's now faking it.

 

thats a boringly lazy track in fairness. i could almost hear Phil Collins singing that one under Genesis.

 

kind of reminds me of Bruce Springsteen this lad, whether he managed to worked down the coal mines before he was signed at 23 and is still rammin on about it, the point

is - it ain't fucking real anymore, boringly fake.

[awepittance]

small man with a big neck will be the greatest NIN song ever written. Trent 'letting go' and humbling with age, he will write this song with a Mr Fantastic grey templed hair style

[MisterE]

i just cant believe how someone could have access to tons of amazing analog synths, and badass boutique unique ass stuff to process everything with like metasonix modules and, i mean just imagine the stuff he has, and this is what he makes with it.

 

the colors shapes and sounds he could paint with those tools.

[Goiter Sanchez]

I like the restraint in the new track... It could build to something greater but it stops. I agree though, the lyrics sound somewhat disingenuous at this point.

[oscillik]

if i come off at all as hostile towards the dude, it's because i used to love his stuff. then i grew up and realized that he had merely been 'monetizing' teenage depression all along, to become wealthy.

 

I don't even know why I'm writing this, because I have lost a lot of respect for Reznor especially after watching the documentary Downloaded, and his comments regarding Napster and then his subsequent volte-face.

 

But.

 

You do realise that up until around 2003, I think, Reznor actually didn't make as much money as you're making out, due to his manager John Malm having screwed him over with his contract. In 2003 Reznor only had $400,000. Of course that's no small potatoes to you and me, but in the context you're speaking, it's fuck all.

 

Anway, like I said..dunno why I'm bothering to write this. Probably because of facts.

[Dale]

what I find fascinating is that all the people who dislike NIN's recent output make their criticisms heard in this thread, but continue coming back to it to read more posts. It's as if they still hold some faith in NIN and don't want to follow through with a complete abandonment.

[oscillik]

what I find fascinating is that all the people who dislike NIN's recent output make their criticisms heard in this thread, but continue coming back to it to read more posts. It's as if they still hold some faith in NIN and don't want to follow through with a complete abandonment.

I have done words in response to this, but typing from my phone would frustrate me too much. but I will respond.

 

In my own personal case, it's not that I keep coming back to this thread because I hold some shred of faith for NIN and don't want to follow through with a complete abandonment (I have given up on NIN, btw) - it's that I'm interested to see how many others are in a similar mindset, to see how many are in opposition to this mindset, and to discuss.

 

because that's what a forum is all about isn't it? I mean, I know WATMM does like it's fanboyism stuff to the extreme but you know...

 

So just to make it absolutely crystal clear, if it wasn't already:

 

1. I no longer have the same respect I had held for Reznor, mostly due to his disingenuous statements and actions surrounding the digital revolution in music

 

2. I no longer care what the musical output of NIN is anymore, since as many here have already stated...it's the same beaten track time and time again.

 

3 If I'm honest, I do come and check in on NIN threads for any reference to cryptowen's awesome comic characterisation of Reznor.

Edited July 29, 2013 by oscillik

[mcbpete]

Apropos to nothing - I still hold the opinion that Further Down The Spiral (The UK version, the US seems to have a slightly different track listing) is one of the most important electronic albums of the 90s. Utterly stellar production quality and a real diverse range of incredibly made tracks/remixes.

[Joyrex]

Apropos to nothing - I still hold the opinion that Further Down The Spiral (The UK version, the US seems to have a slightly different track listing) is one of the most important electronic albums of the 90s. Utterly stellar production quality and a real diverse range of incredibly made tracks/remixes.

Agreed - "Reptile" came on my phone the other day, and I was blown away at how good the production, lyrics, and overall vibe was - if Trent had a Magnum Opus, it would be TDS.

[oscillik]

 

Apropos to nothing - I still hold the opinion that Further Down The Spiral (The UK version, the US seems to have a slightly different track listing) is one of the most important electronic albums of the 90s. Utterly stellar production quality and a real diverse range of incredibly made tracks/remixes.

Agreed - "Reptile" came on my phone the other day, and I was blown away at how good the production, lyrics, and overall vibe was - if Trent had a Magnum Opus, it would be TDS.

 

definite agreement here.

 

actually, I would say that everything Reznor did from the Broken era, right through to The Fragile has fucking amazing production. The Downward Spiral definitely stands out. I always have a hard time choosing between The Downward Spiral, and Broken. They are both brilliantly produced.

[Lane Visitor]

 

 

Apropos to nothing - I still hold the opinion that Further Down The Spiral (The UK version, the US seems to have a slightly different track listing) is one of the most important electronic albums of the 90s. Utterly stellar production quality and a real diverse range of incredibly made tracks/remixes.

Agreed - "Reptile" came on my phone the other day, and I was blown away at how good the production, lyrics, and overall vibe was - if Trent had a Magnum Opus, it would be TDS.

 

definite agreement here.

 

actually, I would say that everything Reznor did from the Broken era, right through to The Fragile has fucking amazing production. The Downward Spiral definitely stands out. I always have a hard time choosing between The Downward Spiral, and Broken. They are both brilliantly produced.

 

 

all of the above.

 

 

i have now heard 4 tracks total from hesitation marks (including the 3 that debuted live in japan).. and im not impressed, sadly. i wish i was. im still trying to find a reason that i could be not getting it yet, or not used to it, or that they sounded mediocre cuz they were live and the album versions are going to be where it's at, or maybe even that nin is just premiering their mediocre tracks from the cd... so that the good ones come out later... anything to deny the most likely fact that the new nin is, yet again, the same old rehashed stuff over and over and over and over that they have been putting out since with teeth. sad. i really wish trent would just stop trying to make the same brand of dancey accessible "dark" electro-rock. so freaking boring. make some dnb, make some mind boggling industrial, fuck make some disco rock beats if you have to, but put some NEW melodies and NEW ideas and over it. you're trying too hard to be dark and it's not dark. it's just cheesy. sorry trent i still love you, i just need something edgy and crazy, (not predictable and contained) which is what i always thought nin were about.

[Guest trananhhung]

I grew up with NIN, and Reznor was my god till my early 20s. I couldn't agree more with what everyone is saying. The last proper music from Reznor was the Still album. Why doesn't he continue that acoustic sound design and singing in the bathroom vocals? Those tracks had character. He now has all the gadgets and money in the world and his stuff his so bland, it's not even funny. I still listen to everything he does, but it's like watching a train wreck in slow-motion.

 

I don't believe at all that he was faking it during the Broken/TDS/Fragile era. Some people are accusing him of vampirizing goth teenagers and making music for them. Can't agree. He was just that desperate.

 

However, I don't think that you need to be in a terrible place to make the terrorist industrial pop music he did. It's all about theatrics, and being good at it. I know people here hate the record, but listen to Yeezus. Yes, it's fake, it's artificial, it's operatic, it's theatrics, but I believe in it when the hairs in my arms raise. It's like making an opera. TDS was an opera.

 

He just doesn't have the talent anymore to come up with an interesting concept. It's all rehashing, playing it safe. Where can I listen to the new HM tracks, besides the by the book Came Back Haunted?

[Guest trananhhung]

Ok, just found the Copy of A video. What's with the giant muscles? His he trying to look like Hulk or a reality show celebrity? He lost it.

[Guest trananhhung]

Something saved the video: Joshua Eustis. That's one sexy gentleman.

[Lane Visitor]

This should be another thread, but question for fellow watmmers:

 

Is there ever gonna be another nin? another band/artist/musician/figurehead who has evoked such power and musical edge and influenced the music industry in such a way with both underground and mainstream appeal.. both cult and pop sensibilities while maintaining an ability to stay mysterious, interesting and "punk rock" in their own way?

 

Today, even within the indie music realm, there is no successful artist that exterts a brutal rawness and realness in terms of music, image, message, etc. We all know that punk rock has been dead for quite some time. Of course, punk rock music has been dead, but in the 90's, at least the ethos and spirit of punk had continued in forms of industrial/goth, alternative/post-grunge, etc. Today, it's dead musically and conceptual on both mainstream and indie levels. No one wants to make provocative music anymore. It's either folky, dreamy and pretty, abstract, glitchy and minimal, uber-dancey or straight up nostalgic. Nine Inch Nails, to me, represented all that is dangerous. I have not seen that danger in music in the last 13 years.

 

Is Hesitation Marks another reflection of the reality that artists/labels/producers don't think that people want anything freaky, crazy, out there or raw anymore? Is it just that Trent is getting more subdued as he matures? Is it that I am completely wrong, and there exists a wide world of punk-rock-spirited rawness in the indie music circles that I seem to not be able to "find" either because I'm 29 and don't have time to discover boatloads of new artists or because of the nature of music today and it's customized me-generation has spawned an environment where there are trillion outlets for new artists and movements, but no centralized vehicle other than the overly saturated Clear Channel? Is it also because for the last 13 years, discovering new artists and music hasn't been exciting since I can pull out my phone and find out everything that's ever been known about them in a matter of 3 seconds? Is that why the realness is dead?

 

I know I'm going on a rant here, but my point here is that NIN is, for me, and has always been a metaphor for the last surviving and flourishing thing in music that still follows it's own rules and not gives a f*ck and whose fanbase is undying because that thing gave them real, authentic emotion, real sweat and tears wrapped in the form of danger, excitement and uncensored darkness. it's sad and somewhat scary to think that it's being compromised and uninspired. if this is case, i feel we need a new nin, something that clenches a fist. i don't have much hope, however, in our current cultural and musical climate, that there will be another one any time soon.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Lane Visitor

[Guest trananhhung]

Great post, Lane Visitor.

 

I constantly think about this. When we will have a band that feels dangerous just by reading its name? NIN were like that. I can only imagine that the metal scene probably has bands just as raw, it's just that they will never get the gigantic fanbase and visibility NIN had during the 90s.

 

Recent stuff I found restless and dark was Ben Frost, but it's more texture work than music. Far from pop structures.

 

I believe your question takes us to a larger discussion. The invasion of pleasant entertainment. TV, series, cinema, music. Everything is served light, amusing and full of brightness. It's like you can't even raise deeper questions about identity.

 

Recently, here in Portugal, on the public channel, we had a cultural news show, an objective and neutral one at that, that was replaced by a new program presented not by a journalist with opinions on the matter but by a former soap opera actress/model who is constantly showing her big white teeth, smiling while she describes the latest Francis Bacon exhibition. It's like she's constantly telling stories from My Little Pony to her niece. It's fucking Francis Bacon, girl.

 

People are at a stage where nothing can be served with seriousness.

Edited July 31, 2013 by trananhhung

[Amen Lare]

This should be another thread, but question for fellow watmmers:

 

Is there ever gonna be another nin? another band/artist/musician/figurehead who has evoked such power and musical edge and influenced the music industry in such a way with both underground and mainstream appeal.. both cult and pop sensibilities while maintaining an ability to stay mysterious, interesting and "punk rock" in their own way?

 

NIN never was such a band, it always had commercial sound. As an outsider, i think you're very overestimating their influence outside of pop and teen circles. Freaky and raw stuff lives in the margins. Anyway if you want examples of mainstream punk rock spirit, well, how about Pussy Riot sitting in jail for a perfomance of straight-up punk rock song. Another recent example is Death Grips, who were on a major until they fucked it up intentionally.

[Guest trananhhung]

Amen Lare, you clearly haven't seen the entire Broken video.

[Lane Visitor]

I believe your question takes us to a larger discussion. The invasion of pleasant entertainment. TV, series, cinema, music. Everything is served light, amusing and full of brightness.... People are at a stage where nothing can be served with seriousness.

 

this this this this this.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Lane Visitor

[Lane Visitor]

 

This should be another thread, but question for fellow watmmers:

 

Is there ever gonna be another nin? another band/artist/musician/figurehead who has evoked such power and musical edge and influenced the music industry in such a way with both underground and mainstream appeal.. both cult and pop sensibilities while maintaining an ability to stay mysterious, interesting and "punk rock" in their own way?

 

NIN never was such a band, it always had commercial sound.

 

 

I disagree, Lare. I would argue very strongly, that NIN has never had a commercial sound. Just because Closer, Starf**ckers Inc, and The Perfect Drug have pop sensibility doesn't mean they have a commercial sound. Two different things.

 

And even for With Teeth and forward, they did not have commercial sound, just a bland, NIN-style- cookie-cutter (but cookie-cutter as far as NIN goes) style. Sure, Only gets played on terrestrial modern rock/alternative stations, but are those stations even relevant or mainstream anymore?

Edited July 31, 2013 by Lane Visitor

[Guest trananhhung]

I guess you are missing the point of Lane in not understanding him when he mentions mainstream. Show me a band who makes expensive videos such as Perfect Drug and Closer and are still dark as fuck. Those were some twisted and unpleasant videos. You don't see that coming from the mainstream scene nowadays. Death Grips are indeed les infants terribles but can they fill a stadium or get Mark Romanek/David Fincher/David Lynch to direct a video? I think that's the difference. The bands are there. The public isn't.

 

Mogway punk? They are a bunch of introverts playing music for funerals.

Edited July 31, 2013 by trananhhung

[Lane Visitor]

Looking back, my post may have come across a bit hopeless.. Im sure there are a number of raw bands that exist out there in the music world today, but thats not even my point..Heres the problem as i see it...

 

No companies in the industry, with the exception of maybe i dont know lets call them "Grandpa's Weird Toolbox From the Dungeon Records" out of Florida wants to invest in music acts that are any bit darker or "weirder" or more stripped down (& im not talking black keys nostalgic stripped down cuz thats still playing it safe) than the xx or chvrches or the occasional brooklyn hipster pitchfork-hyped artist with names that sound like excerpts from a 50 shades of grey novel... They all have cool production, new wavey beats, and some absurdist lyrics, oh and really high end, eye catching album art... Maybe theyre a BIT dark. But theyre probably just atmospheric, production-oriented soundscapes with unique ideas and some cool distortion. But okay, fine... even those acts, if they manage to get distribution through sony or whatever, they dissipate. A$ap rocky was probably the "darkest"/"rawest" thing ive seen to crossover from indie hype in the last many years, and that's just plain sad lol

 

Why was I able to turn on the radio... and yes terrestrial radio SHOULD still be in an indicator of societies music trends imo... And be able to hear gravity kills, stabbing westward, live, nin, manson, but today i cant turn on the radio and hear anything darker than fucking gotye? In the 80s, i imagine id have heard depeche mode, gnr, eurythmics... Gritty stuff, bold dangerous stuff... In the 70s, i imagine zeppelin & sabbath could be heard on the radio as well? The Killers and the Strokes were the last "raw"/punk/actual rock thing that ive heard on terrestrial radio hands down, and that was what, 2005ish?

 

Look, im not trying to "find" dark or raw acts through Clear Channel or the billboard charts lol. Of course thats hopeless... But shouldnt there be a happy medium between Grandpas Weird Toolbox from the Basement Records and Warner Bros proper? I mean, fuck, id hope that my future kids would be able to experience an arena show maybe once or twice for an alt/rock of band from their generation that they discover... Maybe it's just me here, but having been able to see green day, smashing pumpkins, garbage, bush etc at arenas was, for me, a larger than life feel of rock n roll energy. This doesnt mean that small shows and gigs and the "scenes" dont have their wonders as well, but im jus sayin. Can't we get a little raw & dark & loud & weird up in herr on a larger than life level? Lol

[Lane Visitor]

Why are we hispters so curled in fear about hearing good/challenging music in the mainstream world? I dont get it... Is it that were afraid that one or two dark/stripped down songs may get annoying after hearing it over and over om a massive scale? I can understand that, but is it really worth keeping ALL of the good music in the world as an underground secret b/c were so afraid of it becoming tainted? Is that what its come to? I for one am glad that my 12-yr old self got to see Closer and March of the Pigs on MTV without having to search for it, b/c it opened up doors to musical worlds i prob would not have known about otherwise (at least not for some time, and it would probably have set back my creative musical pursuits a few years late)... So for that, thank you, uber-mainstream mtv in 1994/5. (:

[Lane Visitor]

I get what you're saying, yes it's cool to be able to have that stuff in mass entertainment where possible because it keeps people on their toes etc, but ultimately I'm not bothered if it disappears from that particular world. it's the opposite of being a hipster. my position is basically that the different worlds are there, let the music fall where it may.

I hear you.. Well said, for sure.

[azatoth]

What is a "hesitation mark"? Is it one you get in your pants if you hesitate for too long before taking a shit?