Now That Trump's President... (not any more!)

[joshuatxuk]

^

 

Hah, that has a very LuAnne from KOTH vibe to it. Feeling empowered by some smart sounding anecdote 

 

 

 

Peggy: "Luanne, do you know why I spend every Friday night with you?"

Luanne: "Because I challenge you with my intellectual?"

 

[joshuatxuk]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/nothing-on-this-page-is-real-how-lies-become-truth-in-online-america/2018/11/17/edd44cc8-e85a-11e8-bbdb-72fdbf9d4fed_story.html

 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/9y5xfp/nothing_on_this_page_is_real_how_lies_become/

[tec]

 

We need more blunt, accurate headlines like this

 

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/11/18/trump-says-he-was-fully-briefed-and-also-not-briefed-yet-either-way-saudi-crown

 

Trump Says He Was 'Fully Briefed' and Also 'Not Briefed Yet' But Either Way Saudi Crown Prince 'Absolutely' Not Involved Because Trump Knows 'Everything That Went On' Without Listening to Tape of Khashoggi Murder

lol

Reading that he was briefed on what was on the tape but choosing not to listen to it was, for me, the most humane act this orange weirdo has done.

[whosebrian]

Trump's latest foil.

[ignatius]

 

 

We need more blunt, accurate headlines like this

 

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/11/18/trump-says-he-was-fully-briefed-and-also-not-briefed-yet-either-way-saudi-crown

 

Trump Says He Was 'Fully Briefed' and Also 'Not Briefed Yet' But Either Way Saudi Crown Prince 'Absolutely' Not Involved Because Trump Knows 'Everything That Went On' Without Listening to Tape of Khashoggi Murder

lol

Reading that he was briefed on what was on the tape but choosing not to listen to it was, for me, the most humane act this orange weirdo has done.

But you know it wasnt an act of humanity it was an act of squeamishness. He’s talked a few times about how he has no head/stomach for blood. The interview on Howard Stern years ago when he talks about the guy who split his head open in the ballroom at Mara lago. He says he’s not the person to want around when “it comes to the medical”.

 

It’s not surprising he didn’t listen to the tape. It might persuade him to go harder on Saudi prince. He needs some plausible deniability down the line.

 

Also he doesn’t take his job seriously so why should he bother making himself uncomfortable in order to be fully briefed and fully aware of the situation. Even if he listened to 20 seconds of it and said “ok I’ve heard enough”.

 

Meh. This guy is such a wanker.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited November 20, 2018 by ignatius

[triachus]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/19/ivanka-trump-personal-email-account-government-hillary-clinton

 

 

 

LOCK HER UP

 

[zero]

^ her explanation was that she didn't know it was wrong, therefore it shouldn't matter...whereas evil ol' Hillary did that shit on purpose, therefore she should be executed.

Edited November 20, 2018 by zero

[Candiru]

I didn't know it was wrong despite my dad campaigning on this exact issue.

[ignatius]

womp womp

[Rubin Farr]

Trump seems to think if he doesn't listen to the Khashoggi murder tape, then it didn't happen, and he can continue to live in his denial. I'll tell you, they won't do jack shit to MBS. Not a goddamn thing.

[goDel]

To Trumps defence though - yeah I'm going there - I don't believe for a second he thinks MBS is innocent. IMO he's playing a Trumpian style of politics where the royal family is allowed to deal with MBS internally first. It's pretty likely there's a lot inside-stuff going on in that royal family which we know jack shit about. Trump is stalling the process to have the rest of the royal family allow to save face. Out of US/self interest. Probably both. But also for US interest, I believe.

 

I think this narrative of Trump being a dolt, which to a degree I can believe, is wildly oversold. To some degree there is a lot of bullshit coverage with respect to Trump. imo. This is one example. He's playing politics here instead of being the naive idiot people love to paint him. Whether it is the right kind of politics is up for debate, obviously.

 

And in all honesty, we just don't know what Trumps goal is here. What does he want to achieve? He might not even know for himself at this point. Given that he still gives space for the MBS story saying he's got nothing to do with the murder. But that's different to simply believing MBS is innocent. He's creating space for the events to unfold one way or another. And that's the scary part, imo. 

[Rubin Farr]

[zero]

And in all honesty, we just don't know what Trumps goal is here. What does he want to achieve? He might not even know for himself at this point. 

 

We know his goal is always what is best for him. I find it more believable that his wait and see approach isn't political strategy but like usual, he just hasn't a fucking clue what to do in this situation. He doesn't want to piss off the Saudis since they're his friends from way back when and he's thinking of the potential "deals" he could lose. But he's also got to keep his handlers happy, who I think are much more willing to take action against them. And where does the MAGA crowd fit in with this? They don't seem to ever care what goes on outside the borders of the lower 48. Plus, Khashoggi wasn't like some white bubba wearing boots and ball cap kinda guy. So from their perspective it's fuck it, let's not get involved.

[joshuatxuk]

To Trumps defence though - yeah I'm going there - I don't believe for a second he thinks MBS is innocent. IMO he's playing a Trumpian style of politics where the royal family is allowed to deal with MBS internally first. It's pretty likely there's a lot inside-stuff going on in that royal family which we know jack shit about. Trump is stalling the process to have the rest of the royal family allow to save face. Out of US/self interest. Probably both. But also for US interest, I believe.

 

I think this narrative of Trump being a dolt, which to a degree I can believe, is wildly oversold.

 

He's not a dolt when it comes to business dealings, charisma, entertaining, etc. He's an excellent swindler and salesman and any slickness he does achieve is in that capacity. His admin and posse do the nitty gritty when it comes to dealings and/or damage control.

The plausible fact that the Royal Family could very well oust Salman is a very good point, but I'd argue that's even more reason to hold back on the defensive rhetoric and lauding of the Kingdom to preserve the alliance. The smartest least risky move would be to be quiet about the whole affair. A smart risky move would be to push back on the Sauds and pivot back to other Gulf States as more solid allies.

 

Here's the kicker: we get the least out of our relationship with Saudi Arabia compared to other Gulf states, and it's now coming at the expense of other allies. Saudi Arabia has refused to host US military bases since 2003. It only engages in anti-terrorist operations if it threatens their regime's power domestically. It places the burden of coalition contributions on the other Arab League members. They've also taken advantage of Jared Kushner's personal grievances against their rivals Qatar when they pushed for an embargo on that country, which Trump wholeheartedly backed, despite the fact that Qatar is a major host of the US Navy and essentially the most strategic base in the Gulf. Saudi Arabia, despite having more citizens participate in 9/11 than any other nation and thousands volunteer to serve in ISIS, was spared from the travel ban that affected 7 other countries.

 

And then there's the moral failings of Saudi Arabia the US has failed to call out. Khashoggi's murder is a side-note to the Yemen crisis that is leaving 20 millions people without food, water and 2.5 million displaced completely. Indiscriminate Saudi airstrikes have killed thousands. All of this is to keep the Yemeni regime, one as brutal as the Saudi regime, in power to prevent a Iranian-favored government from taking office. It poses no immediate threat otherwise. It's not even as strategically arguable of a conflict as Syria, Libya, or Iraq.

 

All of this is for arm sales and maintaining investments. There's plenty of options to pivot away from Saudi Arabia and back to the other Gulf States. There is plenty of push back via embargoes, sanctions, and restrictions the US can enact in order to put pressure back on Saudi Arabia. We have done so in the past with Pakistan, Egypt, and Turkey without ever completely ending our strategic alliances with those countries. It's difficult, tricky, and often arbitrarily enforced but that's the true reality the Trump refuses to engage in. He is embracing the cynical aspects of moral failings in the region and taking the easy way out. That's what makes this more sinister than even the most dubious actions of Obama, Bush, and Clinton in the past when it comes to the Sauds.

 

It's remarkable that Trump is so absurdly curt and open about the fact that we are excusing human rights violations, an assassination, and a bloodbath in Yemen in order to protect an arms deal. While every other POTUS has done this as a policy they always maintained the same nuanced and subtle spin on it. You have to in the middle east, it's essential. Those aspects are what Trump has completely rejected and by doing so it eliminates any high ground the US had morally and pragmatically.

 

In other words, morality aside and purely from a cold, cynical, realpolitik standpoint he's still making fucking idiotic decisions. 

[goDel]

exactly.

 

the trumpian real politik in a nutshell: cold, cynical and a-moral (rather immoral). with a huge dose of self-interest.

 

also on display in the climatic change ordeal: the problem's too f-cked up to even bother doing something about it. so lets get rich while trashing the planet!

Edited November 21, 2018 by goDel

[ambermonk]

How god damn dense does a president have to be to just brush off the Khashoggi murder. Even the government of Turkey under Erdoğan condemned it and is calling out the Trump administration for resuming the alliance with the Saudi government...even after the CIA concluded that crown prince bin Salman ordered the hit.

Beyond shameful.

[ignatius]

also, kashogi criticized trump early on so he probably doesn't give a shit and if the world wasn't watching he'd probably call up the prince and have a laugh about it. 

 

he's probably playing at politics but also playing at his own personal bottom line which is $$$$ and "they spend a lot of money with me buying 40 and 50 million dollar apartments..." or whatever it was he said.. also i'm sure the arms dealers in the USA picked up the phone and said "c'mon what's one journalist compared to hundreds of millions of dollars in our pockets.. btw we'll contribute to your campaign in 2020"

 

btw saw a story today about how trump wanted the justice dept to prosecute not only hillary abut also james comey and any of his political rivals. this guy is a tyrannical toddler only motivated by money and power. can't even take 5 minutes when visiting the remains of a burned out town in cali to get the name in his head before speaking his gibberish.. fucking shitbag. 

[bossman]

 

Here's the kicker: we get the least out of our relationship with Saudi Arabia compared to other Gulf states, and it's now coming at the expense of other allies. Saudi Arabia has refused to host US military bases since 2003. It only engages in anti-terrorist operations if it threatens their regime's power domestically. It places the burden of coalition contributions on the other Arab League members. They've also taken advantage of Jared Kushner's personal grievances against their rivals Qatar when they pushed for an embargo on that country, which Trump wholeheartedly backed, despite the fact that Qatar is a major host of the US Navy and essentially the most strategic base in the Gulf. Saudi Arabia, despite having more citizens participate in 9/11 than any other nation and thousands volunteer to serve in ISIS, was spared from the travel ban that affected 7 other countries.

 

And then there's the moral failings of Saudi Arabia the US has failed to call out. Khashoggi's murder is a side-note to the Yemen crisis that is leaving 20 millions people without food, water and 2.5 million displaced completely. Indiscriminate Saudi airstrikes have killed thousands. All of this is to keep the Yemeni regime, one as brutal as the Saudi regime, in power to prevent a Iranian-favored government from taking office. It poses no immediate threat otherwise. It's not even as strategically arguable of a conflict as Syria, Libya, or Iraq.

 

All of this is for arm sales and maintaining investments. There's plenty of options to pivot away from Saudi Arabia and back to the other Gulf States. There is plenty of push back via embargoes, sanctions, and restrictions the US can enact in order to put pressure back on Saudi Arabia. We have done so in the past with Pakistan, Egypt, and Turkey without ever completely ending our strategic alliances with those countries. It's difficult, tricky, and often arbitrarily enforced but that's the true reality the Trump refuses to engage in. He is embracing the cynical aspects of moral failings in the region and taking the easy way out. That's what makes this more sinister than even the most dubious actions of Obama, Bush, and Clinton in the past when it comes to the Sauds.

 

It's remarkable that Trump is so absurdly curt and open about the fact that we are excusing human rights violations, an assassination, and a bloodbath in Yemen in order to protect an arms deal. While every other POTUS has done this as a policy they always maintained the same nuanced and subtle spin on it. You have to in the middle east, it's essential. Those aspects are what Trump has completely rejected and by doing so it eliminates any high ground the US had morally and pragmatically.

 

 

not sure if trump's curtness is more sinister tho than other potus.. it's almost more transparent, like business-as-usual. not that that's refreshing or anything, but it makes it harder to maintain illusion of moral US foreign policy. I worry trump has become a magnet for frustrations, like he's the problem (of course he is, but its all fucked, much bigger than trump). like US doesn't kill journalists, politicians, civilians

[drome]

I like the way Trump sticks two fingers up to the (controlled) press. Every cloud had a silver lining.

[usagi]

I'd rather he stuck his two fingers up your bum.

[YEK]

ok guys cool it,

everybody's going to geta chance to stick their fingers in everyone's bums....

[Silent Member]

Time/place?

[drome]

I'd rather he stuck his two fingers up your bum.

Wouldn’t even touch the sides

 

 

 

 

of your bum

[may be rude]

To Trumps defence though - yeah I'm going there - I don't believe for a second he thinks MBS is innocent. IMO he's playing a Trumpian style of politics where the royal family is allowed to deal with MBS internally first. It's pretty likely there's a lot inside-stuff going on in that royal family which we know jack shit about. Trump is stalling the process to have the rest of the royal family allow to save face. Out of US/self interest. Probably both. But also for US interest, I believe.

 

I think this narrative of Trump being a dolt, which to a degree I can believe, is wildly oversold. To some degree there is a lot of bullshit coverage with respect to Trump. imo. This is one example. He's playing politics here instead of being the naive idiot people love to paint him. Whether it is the right kind of politics is up for debate, obviously.

 

And in all honesty, we just don't know what Trumps goal is here. What does he want to achieve? He might not even know for himself at this point. Given that he still gives space for the MBS story saying he's got nothing to do with the murder. But that's different to simply believing MBS is innocent. He's creating space for the events to unfold one way or another. And that's the scary part, imo. 

 

or he has huge financial ties to saud and doesn't mind sending a shock to the journalism community.

 

the kind of shock they get when one of them is killed by corrupt politicians they are covering.

 

inexcusably heinous. repugnant to the senses. noxious. 

is this a tacit threat to the press at large? trump has been brazenly threatening to his opponents, particularly in the press. we just learned he actually sought to have hillary and comey prosecuted. is this the rich baby dipping his tiny foot into authoritarian murder water?

 

it certainly lends itself to that interpretation

Edited November 22, 2018 by very honest

[phudoshin]

Everything Trump says and does is largely indefensible ... he's a fuckwit of the highest order propped up by willfully ignorant assholes. The savage mocking he gets in so much media is the US and abroad is well deserved. What an utterly sad state of affairs. The scramble to find some decency or honesty in the guy is bewildering. I don't need the media, liberal celebs, Sam Harris etc to tell me how much of  a snake-oil salesman he is - its plain to see with every shallow utterance from his own mouth/twitter.  He's the anti-Obama in every way. The psychology of the current American psyche/zeitgeist is  crazy.  I can see him getting in again and going further isolationist as China/Russia get stronger

 

Still its 100% schadenfreude too  - every day I laugh my ass off at the dark humor of it all. Thank fuck for love and music!