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Now That Trump's President... (not any more!)


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37 minutes ago, TubularCorporation said:

Anyway, the actual big news of yesterday might be the Israeli air strikes on Syria that happened while everyone was distracted by DC.

Were these air strikes any more significant than the hundreds of air strikes by Israel on Syria over the last few months?

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enough of this pissweak white apologism, at long last. apparently you haven't paid attention the last 5 years and understood the scale of what has occurred in that time. go take a cursory look at the 

A bunch of entitled/threatened/fearful white people have allowed themselves to be brainwashed to support the egotism of a common opportunist / cheap tie salesman. Now they are resorting to violen

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8 hours ago, ignatius said:

this is the natural progression of trumpism.

Trumpism is the natural progression of the American conservative project since Nixon, it's only an abberation insofar as Trump was a loose cannon enabled by social media and existing conditions.  But the Republican establishment went right along with it up until the last possible moment when it was obvious that the harm he was doing to their interests outweighed the good, which was way too late to do much.

1 minute ago, perunamuusi said:

Were these air strikes any more significant than the hundreds of air strikes by Israel on Syria over the last few months?

I'm double checking, what I was hearing last night was that they were especially severe but there was so little reporting it's starting to look like it might have been more routine, not that that makes much difference.

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2 hours ago, auxien said:

and even after he's out, none of this is going to 'stop' it's just going slightly underground, if anything....e.g. right back to Parler/FB/Gab/whatever else. Trump just gave all these people a champion and kept emboldening them. they're not going away, and in fact the next few weeks/few months are perhaps going to be more dangerous for the general American public than anything over the last 4 years.

that's what I'm afraid of as well. these idiots are gonna head back to their backwoods lairs, start fumbling around with more insane ideas to attack government buildings. trump supporters should now be classified as a domestic terrorist organization.

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Why the fuck haven't they deleted Trump's Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram completely?
In a blog post Thursday, Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg announced that Facebook would ban President Donald Trump from its platforms “indefinitely” following a pro-Trump attack on the US Capitol this week. The ban will not be lifted before Inauguration Day, according to Zuckerberg.


all the alternative right wing social media groups have A LOT of problems and prone to outtages. doubt he can last on there

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

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4 hours ago, auxien said:

the fact that the FBI is going on Twitter asking for help identifying the people who stormed the Capitol is imo very telling of how much shit has got out of hand. the FBI/CIA is exactly who should be 100% on top of exactly this sort of shit but they're caught with their pants down, and are afterwards now floundering, embarrassingly. 

yeah that's where i'm at with this. 

i'm just a regular dude and even i knew for the past few weeks, something is going down on january 6th and they better have the national guard there just in case. i can't believe how easily these fucks got in there, it's insane.

all you have to do is skim through parler or that r/the_donald offshoot site and you'll see, there were people talking about insurrection, public executions, overthrowing the govt, etc. for MONTHS now.....ever since the election.

how was the response so poor? how were they allowed to EASILY get into the Senate chamber? into senator's offices? it's unbelievable.

it's almost like the FBI/whoever thought, "nah these people are just joking.....all 100,000 of them" or whatever.

i can guarantee you the response would have been different if it was a bunch of muslims storming the capitol, who had been discussing their EXACT plan for months on an website that literally anyone can get to and explore in 2 seconds....i mean wow

i'm picturing mike pence being rushed off the senate floor, hearing voices of maga folks in the halls looking for him/mcconell/pelosi....wondering "where the fuck is the security?" he probably shit his pants.

 

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Yeah, the security response to this whole thing was pretty piss poor especially in comparison to how they handled the BLM protests back in early June. These MAGA children have been spoiled and coddled for too long. And quite frankly I'm sick of the racial and political bias of American law enforcement as a whole. There should be equal punishment, equal consequences for any actions REGARDLESS of skin color or political affiliation. Period.

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23 minutes ago, mister miller said:
  4 hours ago, auxien said:

the fact that the FBI is going on Twitter asking for help identifying the people who stormed the Capitol is imo very telling of how much shit has got out of hand. the FBI/CIA is exactly who should be 100% on top of exactly this sort of shit but they're caught with their pants down, and are afterwards now floundering, embarrassingly. 

Especially since the FBI, CIA, and NSA can all share the same info. I posted a video in the surveillance capitalism thread recently where a former NSA technical director describes why their current form of identifying people is flawed and renders them useless. They literally have too much information about everyone clogging up the system so they can't easily identify anyone. Snowden said the same thing at one point.

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13 minutes ago, Braintree said:

Especially since the FBI, CIA, and NSA can all share the same info. I posted a video in the surveillance capitalism thread recently where a former NSA technical director describes why their current form of identifying people is flawed and renders them useless. They literally have too much information about everyone clogging up the system so they can't easily identify anyone. Snowden said the same thing at one point.

Hi noob here. But long time reader.

I'm a bit confused. As far as I can tell, those agencies are only allowed access to data of US citizens *if* there's a reasonable cause. If people expect the FBI and the likes to be *on top of this*, like some have, people are basically saying they should be allowed to access all that data without any particular cause.

I've seen plenty people in the past around here arguing against these types of surveillance practices. And rightly so. But the consequence is that FBI/etc can only knock on Twitters/Facebooks door *after* the event, or at least with specific evidence on specific individuals. We've been through the nonsense with the FBI and all trying to figure out what the Ruskies were doing in Trumps building in 2015. We've seen the procedures.

Criticism about the lack of police people present at the capitol yesterday, I'm all for. But expecting the FBI to identify and prevent people who may go to some protest (ending up as attempted coup), that's just counter to all anti-surveillance arguments. That's just silly, imo. 

(way to go for a first post! making friends is what i do best! :flower:)

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4 minutes ago, Satans Little Helper said:

Hi noob here. But long time reader.

I'm a bit confused. As far as I can tell, those agencies are only allowed access to data of US citizens *if* there's a reasonable cause. If people expect the FBI and the likes to be *on top of this*, like some have, people are basically saying they should be allowed to access all that data without any particular cause.

I've seen plenty people in the past around here arguing against these types of surveillance practices. And rightly so. But the consequence is that FBI/etc can only knock on Twitters/Facebooks door *after* the event, or at least with specific evidence on specific individuals. We've been through the nonsense with the FBI and all trying to figure out what the Ruskies were doing in Trumps building in 2015. We've seen the procedures.

Criticism about the lack of police people present at the capitol yesterday, I'm all for. But expecting the FBI to identify and prevent people who may go to some protest (ending up as attempted coup), that's just counter to all anti-surveillance arguments. That's just silly, imo. 

(way to go for a first post! making friends is what i do best! :flower:)

Hi, welcome! Read rules and all that.

I wasn't saying the FBI should be able to do that, I was merely pointing out the fact that they have access to the same information that the NSA does.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/01/obama-expands-surveillance-powers-his-way-out

And since the NSA collects everything (their motto for the PRISM program), they can turn over whatever they like to other intelligence agencies. There is virtually no oversight, so sharing illegally collected information isn't going to get anyone into hot water.

In addition to federal police, your local police also might have stingray devices, which intercept communications: https://theintercept.com/2020/07/31/protests-surveillance-stingrays-dirtboxes-phone-tracking/

If the local departments were so inclined, they could have definitely tracked every "protestor" (domestic terrorist) and identifed them that way.

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14 minutes ago, Braintree said:

Hi, welcome! Read rules and all that.

I wasn't saying the FBI should be able to do that, I was merely pointing out the fact that they have access to the same information that the NSA does.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/01/obama-expands-surveillance-powers-his-way-out

And since the NSA collects everything (their motto for the PRISM program), they can turn over whatever they like to other intelligence agencies. There is virtually no oversight, so sharing illegally collected information isn't going to get anyone into hot water.

Thx! True, you weren't arguing that. Wasn't specifically thinking of you when I wrote that. My bad. I thought Auxien did though. Maybe I misunderstood.

That first link does show it's a bit more complicated. There's a distinction between foreign intelligence and domestic. And yesterdays event was purely domestic. So, I think my point still stands.

Spoiler

Not to tire people, but the following quote from that first link is relevant:

Under the new, relaxed rules, there are still conditions that need to be met before the NSA will grant domestic intelligence analysts access to the raw streams of data it collects. And analysts can only search that raw data for information about Americans for foreign intelligence and counterintelligence purposes, not domestic criminal cases.

However—and this is especially troubling—“if analysts stumble across evidence that an American has committed any crime, they will send it to the Justice Department,” the Times wrote.  So information that was collected without a warrant—or indeed any involvement by a court at all—for foreign intelligence purposes with little to no privacy protections, can be accessed raw and unfiltered by domestic law enforcement agencies to prosecute Americans with no involvement in threats to national security.

 

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I understand there is no rationalizing with this group of people. The fact that they are just saying any violent maga person is an antifa plant is just that. but there are clear cut photos of these people - a lot already identified (aside from our own dlo) - as proud boys, white supremecists and even a brand new West Virginia government fucking employee. How is that, in any possible way, not proof that it was themselves that did this? Im at such a state of disbelief while not being shocked at all. It is such a weird feeling.

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16 minutes ago, Satans Little Helper said:

Thx! True, you weren't arguing that. Wasn't specifically thinking of you when I wrote that. My bad. I thought Auxien did though. Maybe I misunderstood.

That first link does show it's a bit more complicated. There's a distinction between foreign intelligence and domestic. And yesterdays event was purely domestic. So, I think my point still stands.

  Reveal hidden contents

Not to tire people, but the following quote from that first link is relevant:

Under the new, relaxed rules, there are still conditions that need to be met before the NSA will grant domestic intelligence analysts access to the raw streams of data it collects. And analysts can only search that raw data for information about Americans for foreign intelligence and counterintelligence purposes, not domestic criminal cases.

However—and this is especially troubling—“if analysts stumble across evidence that an American has committed any crime, they will send it to the Justice Department,” the Times wrote.  So information that was collected without a warrant—or indeed any involvement by a court at all—for foreign intelligence purposes with little to no privacy protections, can be accessed raw and unfiltered by domestic law enforcement agencies to prosecute Americans with no involvement in threats to national security.

 

You're not wrong that they have legal policies that, in theory, keep them from using this information without due cause. However, in practice, that's not the case. There's no one at the helm to hold them accountable.

Here's the video I posted in the other thread.

He goes into why there's no accountability in the program at some point. Can't remember exactly when, but the whole video is worth watching if you're interested in this sort of thing.

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1 hour ago, mister miller said:
5 hours ago, auxien said:

the fact that the FBI is going on Twitter asking for help identifying the people who stormed the Capitol is imo very telling of how much shit has got out of hand. the FBI/CIA is exactly who should be 100% on top of exactly this sort of shit but they're caught with their pants down, and are afterwards now floundering, embarrassingly. 

yeah that's where i'm at with this. 

i'm just a regular dude and even i knew for the past few weeks, something is going down on january 6th and they better have the national guard there just in case. i can't believe how easily these fucks got in there, it's insane.

@auxienThe FBI was 100% monitoring parler etc. - those posts often don't have pictures of the individuals associate with them. So asking for help identifying suspects is actually pretty standard. Also, as far as I know, in the US, law enforcement is still required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there was evidence of a planned terrorist act. The CIA has no enforcement capability as they are an intelligence agency.

 

@mister millerThe national guard in DC has to be ordered out by the President. Trump of course didn't order them out. As well, the Capitol police are different from the National Guard. Lawmakers in the US have called for an investigation into the Capitol police, as they were seen opening gates for the MAGAts.

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6 hours ago, auxien said:

as if deleting his accounts now would stop any fucking thing at all.

mostly, what's worrying is how much 'power' it gives big tech companies and how there's bound to be more rules/regulations etc to control everyone based on the afterfall of all this. in other words, big government is about to get bigger

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oh you crazy Canadians...trump supporters there were polite enough to protest outside an art gallery:

https://globalnews.ca/news/7559368/canada-pro-trump-rallies-us-capitol-lockdown/

Quote

In Vancouver, about two dozen demonstrators with Trump and Canadian flags gathered at the Vancouver Art Gallery North Plaza.

 

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3 minutes ago, zero said:

oh you crazy Canadians...trump supporters there were polite enough to protest outside an art gallery:

https://globalnews.ca/news/7559368/canada-pro-trump-rallies-us-capitol-lockdown/

 

Send those fucking idiots to North Korea where they can worship at the altar of a dictator like they so desire to do.

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16 hours ago, sweepstakes said:

How many major ones have there been in recent history?

  • Tea Party (seemed to kick off this wave)
  • 3%ers
  • Thin blue line
  • Proud boys
  • Trumpists
  • QAnon

I'm sure I'm leaving out dozens of them...

Police

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5 hours ago, TubularCorporation said:

Also really kicked off the deregulation of the marketing industry and the erosion of the public educational system, which is a big part of how you end up with the situation we're in now.

defunding mental health hospitals and deregulating airlines, trucking industry etc. there's a lot of coverage on these things. books. studies etc. 

23 minutes ago, zero said:

oh you crazy Canadians...trump supporters there were polite enough to protest outside an art gallery:

https://globalnews.ca/news/7559368/canada-pro-trump-rallies-us-capitol-lockdown/

 

that's some sign "Bible over logic over science"

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27 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Send those fucking idiots to North Korea where they can worship at the altar of a dictator like they so desire to do.

well donnie and the supreme leader are boys, I'm sure they could work out a trade deal of some sort. I'm sure Justin won't mind.

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hm. given the state of the cabinet, they may not go through with the 25th amendment. so congress may impeach. and they may get the votes in the senate this time.

from their point of view, the president is dangerously unhinged. he refused the congress the protection from DHS, nat'l guard, and DOJ that they requested, yesterday, after he had spent weeks inciting the insurrectionist riot in which armed nutters overran the capitol, carrying zip ties and looking for mike pence.

removal would be a fitting end.

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