Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[ignatius]

43 minutes ago, beerwolf said:

WHO says 160 children a day are being killed by Israel and that 'nothing justifies the horror being endured by the civilians of Gaza'.

Hang on a minute, you forgot about The Holocaust? You know that thing that justifies everything they do and without any criticism

once the death count is equal then israel will stop killing people.  i suspect somewhere someone has a stack of papers with identification of each jewish person killed in the holocaust and every time a palestinian is killed by israel they put a check mark on one of those papers then move it to a different pile. 

 

[manmower]

[Hail Sagan]

4 hours ago, usagi said:

this is bullshit. it should concern you that you haven't seen through it. though this is harder to navigate for people not from the Muslim world, I'll concede.

this is projection and spin by a minority of dogmatic, co-opted (or trying to be co-opted) ex-Muslims living comfortable lives overseas, not representative of Iran or the Muslim world as whole. I know this type of ex-Muslim well. they're desperate to align themselves with the west, mostly out of self-interest. the kind who publish books catering to Islamophobes about their 'journey to enlightenment' and become writers for right-wing media outlets, hoping to be poster kids for the west's cultural superiority. they're not interested in actually bettering the lives of anyone, certainly not the people who are, on an undeniable physical level, still their own blood. rather they whitewash themselves as hard as they can and cheerlead for western causes that will bring them money and attention, eventually getting so good at it that they become indistinguishable from any other right-wing hack. we have a great Iranian example here in Australia - she's quite far along the hack lifecycle, you'll notice.

these types can have some facts correct about extremist/jihadi ideology but the way they employ these facts, their arguments and their overall aim are all fundamentally untrustworthy. the picture amongst ordinary Iranians on this specific issue is certainly more complex: ordinary Iranians, even if they're tired of the pernicious influence of the theocracy on their day to day lives, will still be mostly anti-Israel for cultural reasons if not religious ones.

this is the kind of misrepresentation that you will be fed if you get suckered by the algorithm.

You obviously are more in touch and have a better understanding of the ex-Muslim community than I but how then can you even establish a community or support network for such people without having such discussions, putting out videos or publishing books to reach the public? Also these guys are atheists, if they really wanted to cater to the right wing western ideology converting to Christianity would be a way more opportunistic on their part. Both are smart enough to realize that and would have passed up on a much easier cash grab by going the atheist route. Why?

I also don’t think that the fact that dude is a Pakistani born Muslim who gave up his faith in an obviously much safer country like Australia should be a strike against him. It was still was an incredibly isolating and fucked up experience by the sound of it (being disowned by family, death threats for giving his opinions, etc.). Who then, in your estimation, are the vocal ex-Muslims that are helping to grow the community without chasing clout, money and whitewashing themselves in the process? And that’s not a snarky reply or anything, nothing in this reply is intended to sound that way. I’m genuinely curious if you could recommend some channels. 
 

 

[usagi]

7 hours ago, Hail Sagan said:

You obviously are more in touch and have a better understanding of the ex-Muslim community than I but how then can you even establish a community or support network for such people without having such discussions, putting out videos or publishing books to reach the public? Also these guys are atheists, if they really wanted to cater to the right wing western ideology converting to Christianity would be a way more opportunistic on their part. Both are smart enough to realize that and would have passed up on a much easier cash grab by going the atheist route. Why?

I also don’t think that the fact that dude is a Pakistani born Muslim who gave up his faith in an obviously much safer country like Australia should be a strike against him. It was still was an incredibly isolating and fucked up experience by the sound of it (being disowned by family, death threats for giving his opinions, etc.). Who then, in your estimation, are the vocal ex-Muslims that are helping to grow the community without chasing clout, money and whitewashing themselves in the process? And that’s not a snarky reply or anything, nothing in this reply is intended to sound that way. I’m genuinely curious if you could recommend some channels. 
 

 

I think you're conflating a few things here:

• atheism isn't synonymous with enlightenment and perfect worldviews/behaviour. atheists are just as susceptible to greed, selfishness, unconscientiousness and bigotry as anyone else. plenty of atheist hacks out there making money on speaking tours catering to bigots, adding no value to the world and solving zero problems.
• christianity isn't synonymous with the right-wing. you don't have to adopt a different faith to be able to shit on another for $$$ and clout.
• these topics are separate and not directly relevant to the issue being discussed here. I was just pointing out these guys' agenda and how they're misrepresenting a party to the conflict. the ex-Muslim community and its ins and outs are not what's important here - though I will just add that leaving the religion is not as terrifying an experience as it is popularly imagined to be, particularly if you're living in the west. this is a Palestinian issue, not a Muslim one. it's only because ignorant people insist on making this a clash of civilisations rather than a basic human rights and international law issue that the subject of Islam (and its supposed horrors and barbarity as personified by Hamas) even comes up.

with respect etc

[Hail Sagan]

16 hours ago, usagi said:

I think you're conflating a few things here:

• atheism isn't synonymous with enlightenment and perfect worldviews/behaviour. atheists are just as susceptible to greed, selfishness, unconscientiousness and bigotry as anyone else. plenty of atheist hacks out there making money on speaking tours catering to bigots, adding no value to the world and solving zero problems.
• christianity isn't synonymous with the right-wing. you don't have to adopt a different faith to be able to shit on another for $$$ and clout.
• these topics are separate and not directly relevant to the issue being discussed here. I was just pointing out these guys' agenda and how they're misrepresenting a party to the conflict. the ex-Muslim community and its ins and outs are not what's important here - though I will just add that leaving the religion is not as terrifying an experience as it is popularly imagined to be, particularly if you're living in the west. this is a Palestinian issue, not a Muslim one. it's only because ignorant people insist on making this a clash of civilisations rather than a basic human rights and international law issue that the subject of Islam (and its supposed horrors and barbarity as personified by Hamas) even comes up.

with respect etc

100% on atheism not equating to being enlightened with a strong moral compass, or that Christians are all far right lunatics. I have way more familiarity with both of those groups and am not a part of either. What I was trying to articulate there, very poorly, was that I don’t feel like these guys necessarily are going after that western lapdog position you mentioned. To become a true poster child for the far right on a major media outlet like fox I personally believe catering to the far right as well as the Christian community would be the most lucrative path. I failed to acknowledge the opportunity for these guys to hold onto their beliefs (or lack thereof) and still chase the bag under the guise of offering a supportive and educative community.

I’ve gone down the rabbit hole and watched a lot of different perspectives and am no stranger to the hands-on-head and mouth-agape thumbnail YouTuber with shocking, all caps video titles and manscape ads sandwiched in videos at the end of a cliffhanger. While I’ve definitely seen some strong anti-Muslim stances from Harris on how to approach Hamas etc. I kinda chalked it up more to him being jaded due to the backlash he received from the community that he decided to leave. Also, the whole ex-Muslim thing is new to me and I’m actually happy to hear that it’s being exaggerated by some of these people because from what I heard it sounded awful.

No one here is getting fucked over harder than the Palestinians, and the Gazans even more so. They are being attacked by the enemy both outside and within their borders.  Netanyahu and his government are a fucking problem. Hamas is a death cult quick to be sacrificed on Iran’s chess board it would appear.  What I found most interesting and insightful in the video was the take regarding the facilitation of an already present movement within Iran’s borders that could potentially topple the regime and cut funding and training to the other terrorist networks. Everyone is talking about the million fucking problems that are evident everywhere. I just thought it was nice to hear a proposed solution to the situation for once even if it is long-term. It sucks to hear that, as you pointed out, the movement being mentioned and the sentiment in Iran may be exaggerated. Anyways, I’ll stop posting dude’s shit on here. My heart goes out to the people who have suffered on both sides of the conflict.

my proposed solution to avoid future scenarios: anyone who wants to hold public office or be in a position where they look over children or vulnerable communities will be subject to a FMRI in order to determine if they have enough cortical real estate in their frontal lobe to process guilt and practice empathy. If not your high-functioning psychopathic tendencies can be put to use on wall street or something. 

 

 

[zlemflolia]

3 minutes ago, Hail Sagan said:

What I was trying to articulate there, very poorly, was that I don’t feel like these guys necessarily are going after that western lapdog position you mentioned. To become a true poster child for the far right on a major media outlet like fox I personally believe catering to the far right as well as the Christian community would be the most lucrative path. I failed to acknowledge the opportunity for these guys to hold onto their beliefs (or lack thereof) and still chase the bag under the guise of offering a supportive and educative community.

they dont even have to chase it, they dont even have to pretend or cater their beliefs, their beliefs can be 100% from their selves with conviction, and yet they are scooped up and put there after the fact and used for that kind of purpose

media lets people become a small part of a bigger plan they weren't even told about when agreeing to take part, they are discarded after

[cruising for burgers]

this page, 10/10, would read again!

[Nebraska]

delete

[ARPA]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CzbYkq9BkT_/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/

[Hail Sagan]

violence just outside of the museum of tolerance (because inside they wouldn’t tolerate it obviously)where they held a screening showing some of the graphic attacks carried out by Hamas 

 

 

[ignatius]

story out now about some photo journalists in gaza who were present at the attack and may have had prior knowledge it was going to happen. so, news outlets are making a lot of hay w/that. and other news outlets are severing ties w/some freelance/contract journalists/workers in gaza.  just more shit in the shitshow. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/cnn-s-new-ceo-addresses-unfortunate-news-of-photojournalist-present-during-hamas-attack-on-internal-call/ar-AA1jFar9

[prdctvsm]

[ignatius]

2 hours ago, prdctvsm said:

apparently the north part of gaza is flattened. "moonscape"

 

[prdctvsm]

1 hour ago, ignatius said:

gaza is flattened. "moonscape

[ignatius]

1 hour ago, prdctvsm said:

 

[Crazing]

The whole 'but they're just backward extremist religions fighting out ancient hatreds' is really fking me off

lets make a milkshake of anti-semitism AND islamophobia

 

[Hail Sagan]

dude on the left went fully catatonic 

 

[iococoi]

incidentally..on sale in the tyt shop

[xox]

[Milwaukeeeee]

I've seen footage where they also bombed and targeted lil fishing boats, used by some  people to pick some sardines to not starve themselves. Probably Hamas false flag also lol

[usagi]

Jewish groups ‘highly concerned’ at Wong’s Middle East comments, as Marles says Australian Jews don’t feel safe

how dare they be told to stop bombing hospitals. this is very frightening for people ensconced on the other side of the world, who are after all the real victims here.

[ignatius]

4 hours ago, Milwaukeeeee said:

I've seen footage where they also bombed and targeted lil fishing boats, used by some  people to pick some sardines to not starve themselves. Probably Hamas false flag also lol

i couldn't find this bourdain episode by itself so you'll have to settle fro Hasan's comments during it.. but bourdain talks to a woman who tells him about the fisherman not being able to go out to the international line or whatever and that's where the deeper water fish are.. and if they go out there they get shot it.. detained.. boats sometimes destroyed or impounded. 

the bourdain stuff is awesome in this and while going around and eating w/all different people in israel, west bank, gaza he asks questions and talks about all the things.. 

 

[o00o]

It's fascinating to observe how Greta Thunberg engages in the conflict and is then torn apart by the media and some of her followers. 

In the media coverage of the event she even looks a bit surprised by the reaction which I can't truly believe she is.  

Edited November 13, 2023 by o00o

[ignatius]

4 minutes ago, o00o said:

It's fascinating to observe how Greta Thunberg engages in the conflict and is then torn apart by the media and some of her followers. 

In the media coverage of the event she even looks a bit surprised by the reaction which I can't truly believe she is.  

isn't she on the spectrum? i think that must factor in to things a bit. 

[o00o]

2 minutes ago, ignatius said:

isn't she on the spectrum? i think that must factor in to things a bit. 

true - on the other hand how should she manage to have more then one political opinion? I guess someone like her never cared about societies expectations including her followers expecting her to just state her opinion as a brand for one singular topic.