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elseq 1-5


auxien
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***just-free-association-thinking*** :whistling:

 

it's impossible to really understand music for those whose mind operates at the level of high-end concreteness (''reasons like a prepsychotic person'')

 

 

2) does euphoria and other emotionally intense experiences when you completely lose your shit sound to you like "high-end concreteness"?

 

 

 

are you euphoric while you're posting here on watmm too?

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I actually did mix TBM2 with hip hop on a mix I did about a month ago.

 

 

A bit cheeky because it's mixed with De La Soul and we all know what Ae thinks of them. :)

 

TBM2 comes in at the 4min mark.

 

After De La Soul it's mixed with an "old" F.X. Randomiz track.

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:cisfor:

Sorry, modey, I am genuinely interested to read your thoughts on this. So I am bumping this:

 

hopefully it's up to jev standards now, it's not as repetitive as it used to be, that's for sure

So you actually tried checking TBM2 like that, mate??

like what? with the queen acapella over it?
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Guest WNS000

 

I was just kidding about the monitor thing, I knew that couldn't possibly be what you meant but you wrote such a hilariously wierd sentence that I couldn't resist, but I also didn't get what you meant until you explained it

 

 

OK, no problem.

 

 

 

The mediocre thing was adding to the joke but I was also pointing out that if you happen to enjoy something while doing something else doesn't make it less valid, so why worry about all the concentration or whether something is enjoyable while driving - sometimes that kind of focus is good but to your own point you said that you'd have to explain that "this track is good while driving a car", but in the same way you now have to say "this track is good with eyes closed in full concentration" which is not going to be how most people listen 80% of the time, unless you rarely do anything else so you can always focus, or you only rarely listen to music when the setting is perfect

 

Because my main point is that you cannot recommend something in general based on a superficial examination. Careful examination is going to be superior to superficial examination every single time. It will be more correct way of examination every single time. It is like reading a book superficially and then recommend it to a book enthusiast.

 

 

 

if you can enjoy something with distractions there's a pretty good chance you'll like it without distractions

 

 

No, actually there is a pretty good chance you will find flaws after closer examination when not distracted. It happens to me very often.

 

 

 

it's slightly condescending to say "yes but are you sure you enjoyed it, you probably didn't, it's just because you were looking at something cool or being in too good a mood"

 

 

But I didn't claim that people actually didn't enjoy what they heard. They could have enjoyed the tracks perfectly fine. They just "cannot" recommend it to others until they truly listen to it because they base their rating on superficial examinations.

 

 

 

Most of the time I think it's harder to enjoy something fully while you're distracted because you can miss many of the elements that make it so great

 

Yes, of course. That is what I am advocating for. But with superficial listening on the other hand, you can also blissfully ignore flaws and therefore subjectively enjoy the music better when not really concentrating. And that is the problem because then you are going to recommend something based on superficial examination which is not really that good in the first place.

 

I guess what I dislike is that this lazy listening is a standard in music communities and I find it to be quite sad. I would like to talk about music with people knowing they take the music as seriously as I do, having "all" the information that I do. If careful listening was a golden standard for everybody then I would have much less problems trusting reviews for example. But of course, I am not denying the obviously huge subjectivity when it comes to appreciating various timbres, sounds, melodies and so on. I just believe careful listening can minimize the subjectivity to a more clear level.

 

And thanks for the debate, I find it to be enriching.

 

 

:cisfor:

Sorry, modey, I am genuinely interested to read your thoughts on this. So I am bumping this:

 

hopefully it's up to jev standards now, it's not as repetitive as it used to be, that's for sure

So you actually tried checking TBM2 like that, mate??

like what? with the queen acapella over it?

 

 

No, I thought you tried to listen to TBM2 "up to jev standards" as you have written. So I thought you have tried "my method" and I wanted to know what was it like for you. That is all.

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Guest WNS000

 

 

***just-free-association-thinking*** :whistling:

 

it's impossible to really understand music for those whose mind operates at the level of high-end concreteness (''reasons like a prepsychotic person'')

 

 

2) does euphoria and other emotionally intense experiences when you completely lose your shit sound to you like "high-end concreteness"?

 

 

 

are you euphoric while you're posting here on watmm too?

 

 

When talking with passion about music? Sometimes. Not very often.

 

 

Jev, it's fine and pretty cool to stand with your nose an inch away from a painting and look at the brushstrokes. BUT, try taking a few steps back yeah?

These are pretty big paintings.

 

I get this, and it is a nice metaphor but it does not really apply for what I am advocating. Many huge paintings are full of crucial details (in the background etc.) that gives the full context. You have to examine all of them in order to get the whole scope of the piece of art.

 

Also, I would consider listening to, for example, Aphex's "Meltphace 6" with a few steps back as an incredibly huge waste of art. And since I have examined Ae's tracks a lot, I know they were always full of details to dig in and appreciate.

 

Another thing is that you don't have to be examining brush strokes (textures, timbres, frequency spectrum). You can be carefully paying attention to the context of things in the picture instead (composition, melody progressions, harmonies, rhythmic variations, slight tempo changes, interactivity between various elements etc.).

 

I tend to not listen to music with the mentality of an mastering engineer. I prefer listening as a composer and a producer if that makes sense.

Edited by WNS000
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I tend to not listen to music with the mentality of an mastering engineer. I prefer listening as a composer and a producer if that makes sense.

 

 

 

I try to listen to music as a listener.

 

There are times when picking apart, listening as a composer/producer/etc. is an interesting exercise and can provide insight. But to initially listen like that can often ruin music and take away its magic, in my experience of course.

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Agreed.

 

I believe I know where Jev is coming from because it sounds very similar to the way I used to listen to music as a very Serious Young Man and it's a terrible habit to get into.

 

Same. I grew out of that when I was 16 or 17. But I guess that's not for everyone. . .

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Guest WNS000

As I said, I listen to music because I get intense emotional experience from music. You don't seem to interconnect my individual posts together in a single context which is unfortunate. It is so hard to properly communicate stuff on forums. So frustrating. (I am aware my language barrier might be contributing a lot)

 

Composer and producer to me is a person that is aware of all the beautiful things that can happen in music and therefore can appreciate them. Otherwise they would not be able to produce great music.

 

I also believe casual listeners are listening to composition no matter what they think they do. How can you love a melody if you weren't actually listening to a composition? It happens automatically. A casual listener just can not name the things but he/she does them anyway.

 

I don't listen to technical aspects of music when listening to music for pleasure. I listen to the music but I listen very very carefully.

 

Why is it so hard to explain this...

 

Once again:

 

I am against predominant lazy-listening culture. Not against listening for emotions. In fact, careful listening helps to reveal even more emotional content in the music. More sophisticated emotional mixtures become apparent. My absolute priority when listening to music is, in fact, to get emotions from it. So please, don't get me wrong.

Edited by WNS000
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Agreed.

 

I believe I know where Jev is coming from because it sounds very similar to the way I used to listen to music as a very Serious Young Man and it's a terrible habit to get into.

 

Same. I grew out of that when I was 16 or 17. But I guess that's not for everyone. . .

 

 

Same here.

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So you answer condescending remarks by Jev with your own condescending remarks. That age and its habits are pretty important, a lot of thoughtful people like to say that they never grew out of their "17" version. There's also interesting neuro research in regard to how brain develops around that age (basically full-stop in development and redistribution of accumulated, then you either freeze or light-speed)

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It's fine, Jev just happens to be an extremist when it comes to music appreciation.

He wants to declare sharia law on lazy listening culture.

100 lashes on anyone found to be playing Autechre in the background while performing other tasks.

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So you answer condescending remarks by Jev with your own condescending remarks. That age and its habits are pretty important, a lot of thoughtful people like to say that they never grew out of their "17" version. There's also interesting neuro research in regard to how brain develops around that age (basically full-stop in development and redistribution of accumulated, then you either freeze or light-speed)

I don't think Jev was being condescending. Me, perhaps, but he wasn't. I was trying to be a smartass because Jev is separating out listening into rigid, very high-minded 'jobs' essentially, and to me that's way overthinking music, a form of art that is meant to be enjoyed first and foremost. He's surely entitled to his views, obviously a few of us don't agree with him but I'm sure some do. Nbd.

 

I've known plenty of people who never truly grew out of their teenage years, and they've all been varying degrees of miserable to interact with. Those mindsets certainly can shape us going forward, but to grasp on to any way of thinking or being without allowing growth tends to stagnate a person and to me that's quite a sad path to see people on. [note: this paragraph is only in response to Amen's points and truly holds no reference to any one person, including Jev, whom I do not know and wouldn't classify in any way like that since I don't]

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Guest WNS000

It's fine, Jev just happens to be an extremist when it comes to music appreciation.

He wants to declare sharia law on lazy listening culture.

100 lashes on anyone found to be playing Autechre in the background while performing other tasks.

 

My reaction:

 

OK, so what I get from such listening. If the music is real quality, I usually get a huge emotional experience (sometimes worth crying or even screaming in euphoria). Some of the highly concentrated experiences can be pretty intense. Some long classical pieces are extremely moving.

 

Also, I have nothing against progressively absorbing new tracks through listening in various conditions. I do it all the time myself. I often listen to new music as a background to various activities until I get to know the music to a comfortable level. But I just leave my "final" opinion until I gave the music in question the ultimate test which is what I described. Am I clear now?

 

I mean who would watch an intense film while doing other activities? Music is no different to me. If I am serious about listening, nothing beats the method I have described.

 

 

And I also listen to music as background when doing various activities with music I already know and love. I am no different in this than anybody else. I was just talking about "an ultimate listening experience" so to speak and how I use it for my personal, subjective rating of music.

Edited by WNS000
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Guest WNS000

I also don't want to clutter this thread anymore and I think I already stated what I wanted anyway and anybody can read all my posts on this topic.

 

If anybody wants to discuss this more with me (not probable) you are all welcome to PM me so that we don't occupy the space here.

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Really enjoying chimer and c7b2 today

 

I don't think there's an editing problem on elseq, I think there was a desire to create some long form pieces that have time to create an atmosphere to exist in; like a book instead of a movie

 

As someone mentioned above, Eno created some long generative pieces, some designed specifically to be played in the background and not concentrated on such as "Thursday Afternoon" which has long been a favourite of mine

 

Some of elseq seems to be going for a similar concept but with a more alien atmosphere

 

eastre can really transform a room and I don't think 6 minutes would do it justice as it's only fully sinking in by that point

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