Now That Trump's President... (not any more!)

[Braintree]

On 6/7/2020 at 12:57 AM, chenGOD said:

^^^
 

 

It's kind of funny and mostly sad that he's so incompetent that we're all willing to vote for a guy with early onset dementia.

[Blir]

Trump being dragged through the streets being beaten and eventually beheaded by a furious mob. Could be a good thing?

[dingformung]

The mob could slit him open alive and strangle him with his own guts until his eyes pop out.

[Braintree]

I would rather him and his family be stripped of their wealth and live the rest of their miserable lives absolutely destitute.

[zero]

9 minutes ago, Blir said:

Trump being dragged through the streets being beaten and eventually beheaded by a furious mob. 

aka "the gaddafi"

or maybe he'd prefer "the mussolini" where his corpse is beaten to a pulp and hung upside down on meat hooks.

[joshuatxuk]

1 hour ago, sweepstakes said:

Even the die-hard apologists are distancing themselves from this one. He's turning radioactive.

Nah, it's already worked on a few relatives on mine. Literally triggered some by calling Trump a monster last week. That's literally what angered them the most over the last week or so. 

If this is finally turning some supporters away, cool, but I'll be honest at this point most people are just doubling-down. 

[Candiru]

3 hours ago, joshuatxuk said:

Nah, it's already worked on a few relatives on mine. Literally triggered some by calling Trump a monster last week. That's literally what angered them the most over the last week or so. 

If this is finally turning some supporters away, cool, but I'll be honest at this point most people are just doubling-down. 

Someone I met in North Carolina, who has defended Trump throughout all of his shenanigans said that if James Mattis were to run as a Democrat or a Republican, he would vote for him, based on his recent statement saying Trump is a threat to the constitution. 

I do think the needle is moving. 

[Nebraska]

CNN: the enemy of the people, refuses to co-operate with trump's war room

 

[cwmbrancity]

On 6/9/2020 at 9:39 PM, zero said:

aka "the gaddafi"

or maybe he'd prefer "the mussolini" where his corpse is beaten to a pulp and hung upside down on meat hooks.

 

[Nebraska]

winning

[joshuatxuk]

On 6/9/2020 at 7:42 PM, Candiru said:

Someone I met in North Carolina, who has defended Trump throughout all of his shenanigans said that if James Mattis were to run as a Democrat or a Republican, he would vote for him, based on his recent statement saying Trump is a threat to the constitution. 

I do think the needle is moving. 

I hope so, because regarding Mattis' recent statements one friend's dad dismissed him as a deep state RHINO and one of my elderly Catholic relatives called Mattis a "disgruntled man" which I find so hard to comprehend while she fervently defends Trump. 

Both camps exist, the Republicans who are turning full-blown right-wing fascists and those who are waiting to defect or staying quiet while disapproving Trump (very few are openly leaving) - the question is which will win out in terms of the swing vote?

[luke viia]

jfc. read the comments on this article if you dare. the US is so depressing. 

https://townhall.com/columnists/marinamedvin/2020/06/10/75yearold-protestor-to-buffalo-officers-im-going-to-take-you-to-the-supreme-court-before-the-push-and-fall-n2570442

[goDel]

1 hour ago, joshuatxuk said:

I hope so, because regarding Mattis' recent statements one friend's dad dismissed him as a deep state RHINO and one of my elderly Catholic relatives called Mattis a "disgruntled man" which I find so hard to comprehend while she fervently defends Trump. 

Both camps exist, the Republicans who are turning full-blown right-wing fascists and those who are waiting to defect or staying quiet while disapproving Trump (very few are openly leaving) - the question is which will win out in terms of the swing vote?

I vaguely remember you talking about this before, but do these pro-trumpers get their ideas through Facebook  and Fox? And the Fucking NRA perhaps. So we have the three Fs of the F-ing Fu Fux Clan. 

[may be rude]

Quote

It’s important that you don’t overreact. The natural impulse is to confront your friend or loved one immediately, but the cults are ready for that. If it’s a cult then they will have planted a number of mental “booby traps” into the minds of their members. These booby traps are designed to be triggered by a number of common reactions to discovery of involvement in their group. The most common trigger are the words “It’s a Cult!” The cult knows it will be identified as a cult, and so they preempt that event by telling their new recruit that Satan (or some such enemy) will prompt those closest to them to say that they are a cult. So when you say what they have primed their member to expect, the new member will think, “Wow, they were right!”. Then it is unlikely that your friend or loved one will consider anything else you say. In fact your words might trigger panic and make them want to get away from you. So relax, and don’t call them a cult at first.

The Golden Rule is simple: Do whatever you can to keep the communication channels open with your loved one or friend. The cult will be looking for any reason to shut you off from their new member. Don’t give them an excuse. The Golden Rule is simple, keep the communication channels open. You can’t do anything later on if you can’t communicate with the one you’re trying to help.

If you can, talk with recovered ex-members of the cult. Often they can provide helpful advice and contacts. But be careful, some ex-members may not have fully recovered. Don’t let them know who your loved one is until after you are sure they are trustworthy.

When the time comes and you sense it’s OK to ask about the cult, ask indirectly. Don’t say “look at the fire”, instead ask “is that smoke?”. In other-words don’t state the conclusion you want, instead get the cult member thinking by pointing them to the smoke and letting them follow it to the fire. Use the research you have done to formulate the questions. Ask one question at a time, not all at once. For example instead of saying “Your guru is a fake because his end of the world prediction failed”, say “I saw in this copy of your group’s magazine this article, where your guru said the world would end five years ago. I must be honest, I don’t know what to think about that. Can you help me?”

https://www.cultwatch.com/how-to-help-friends-family.html

[chenGOD]

3 hours ago, luke viia said:

jfc. read the comments on this article if you dare. the US is so depressing. 

https://townhall.com/columnists/marinamedvin/2020/06/10/75yearold-protestor-to-buffalo-officers-im-going-to-take-you-to-the-supreme-court-before-the-push-and-fall-n2570442

I could barely read the article lol. police scanner. what the actual fuck.

[Nebraska]

Quote

Trump administration eases restrictions on killing bear cubs and wolf pups in their dens in Alaska baiting of brown and black bears with human food, hunting of bears in their dens using artificial light, killing of wolves and coyotes in their dens during the season when mothers wean their young, using dogs to hunt bears and hunting of swimming caribou from boats.

These actions were banned by Obama federally despite being permitted by the state of Alaska.

freedom restored in alaska

[joshuatxuk]

11 hours ago, goDel said:

I vaguely remember you talking about this before, but do these pro-trumpers get their ideas through Facebook  and Fox? And the Fucking NRA perhaps. So we have the three Fs of the F-ing Fu Fux Clan. 

For the older ones I know it's decades of sustained talk radio starting with Rush in the 90s, Hannity in the 2000s, FOX news, then online outlets like PJ media, breitbart, dailycaller, PragerU, etc. There's different "flavors"  of this stuff - the religious and faux intellectuals like Shapiro and Prager, the straight up fascists like their alt-right twitter-spheres and YT channels, the typical retired folks bombard themselves with all of it and mostly interact on FB. It's all reactionary, it's rarely coherent, logical, or substantive. It's almost all devoid of any actual ideology, especially the past naive and well-meaning (albeit still usually wrong) conservative rhetoric of the past. That's what pisses me off on top of everything, they say they are anti-government, anti-deficit, even anti-imperialist at times but when confronted with Trump's embrace of all of these policies they just deflect or deny. They often don't even pull the "whatabout the Democrats anymore!?" but instead say "well he's winning and owning the liberals" or something. Or say they are praying for all of the aborted babies or some shit. 

For younger Trump fans, especially those who are Latino or POC (and yes, they exist, especially in much of Texas) it's identity politics as the culprit. Guns, "PC" culture, 'anti-SJW' hysteria, 4chan Qanon black pill conspiracies, etc. Incel culture, gamergate, and other seemingly apolitical fringe gateways have become major factors in alt-right normalization, especially since so much relies on grey area "memes," trolling, sarcasm, dog-whistles, etc. The frustrating thing about this is it also keeps a lot of people apathetic. So many co-workers I know who don't vote or have the sentiment of "the whole system sucks" are liberal if not leftist on just about every policy but don't vote Democrat over either guns and/or because of perceived liberal PC correctness and nanny state perceptions. It's FB memes, JRE, and stuff like that as their sources. 
Most people I know who like Trump fall in the first camp. A few, including a close relative I get along with, voted for him but willingly talk about how he's an idiot not just as a person but on certain issues. They voted for him sincerely thinking he'd steer a better economy. We disagree on a lot offhand at first but can and do talk earnestly and constructively about why. I can talk with people like that all day there are just not many I know personally. I have no idea how many exist beyond the ranks of the remaining moderate GOP. I hate that Biden is running but if he does indeed pull these folks - and it appears he got Bush and Colin Powell along - then good. My pipedream of Romney and others breaking off into a moderate party are non-existent though. 

Regarding the truly insane - I know of two people for sure who are straight-up anti-Semites, anti-catholics, Qanon nuts and one def relishes the idea of killing leftists. Just straight up garbage people below their friendly exteriors I see at holiday gatherings. They've always been strange but it's still a hard pill to swallow that they've become this extreme and that such extreme rhetoric is normalized. Honestly I think they are using this more to feel smart among ignorant folks, score popularity points in their online circles and run scams via crowd-sourcing stuff but still. The one who talks tough apparently starting roiding up after getting his ass kicked for being racist in a bar. They're pathetic but the fact that they do have followers grosses me out.

It's not just echo-chamber, it's a full-blown cult mentality. At least in the early 2000s it was contained on far-right sites or blogs but post-FB, YT, IG, and Twitter it's out there and unmasked. I knew it was getting bad under Obama. I knew it was bad when I was told that going UT-Austin and said education "was a bad thing." I knew it was going to get worse when one relative, after I explained how Trump appropriated 'fake news' is literally anti-press rhetoric, lit up with glee and said he thinks that's genius. It's been almost a decade of gaslighting and weaponized disillusionment. 

I don't mince words when I say this is on the level of 1930s Italy or Germany. When you point out the doublespeak, the lies, the mental gymnastics, they embrace it. Likewise they'll readily cry and play victim and demand empathy as soon as they actually get negatively affected by anything. That too is a key component to sustaining followers of any fascist movement - they're "oppressed" by the deep state, globalists, liberal elite, etc.

Most of my friends and much of my family aren't like this. Those that do are often older and fairly cooped up in their own misery, cynicism, and ire which is why they cling to Trump. There's unrelated family drama with some that's a different issue but nonetheless overlaps in terms of dynamics.

I've tried being subtle, reasonable, patient, and likewise direct and overt but still as restrained and academic in tone. It's hopeless. I have to remind myself that I can't then get bogged down by this reality and that in my life they form a minority of people I know and interact with. I have to remind myself I'm very fortunate and content in my life and loved and listened to by many. I have to remind myself I'm not just alone but on the side of reasonable and good people. But my god I still get really fired up about it on so many levels, and much of that derives from the fact that there are people subjected to this with no Independence or escape like I have - kids in homes with extremist parents, people stuck in shit jobs with toxic bosses and/or financially trapped in some right-wing rural shithole. I get angry thinking about them and the overall state of things.

11 hours ago, very honest said:

https://www.cultwatch.com/how-to-help-friends-family.html

this is informative, I'll read more into and keep it in mind

[goDel]

39 minutes ago, joshuatxuk said:

*that cult link very honest posted*

this is informative, I'll read more into and keep it in mind

Yes, that's a good read.

The shortest summaries of summaries:

Quote

Avoid confrontations as they are rarely useful and can serve to drive people further away.

When you spend time with them, don’t mention the group and don’t question them about their own beliefs, or those of the group. If they brings them up, be non-committal.

Good luck with those cultists. And keeping your sanity...

[QBLA]

54 minutes ago, joshuatxuk said:

For the older ones I know it's decades of sustained talk radio starting with Rush in the 90s, Hannity in the 2000s, FOX news, then online outlets like PJ media, breitbart, dailycaller, PragerU, etc. There's different "flavors"  of this stuff - the religious and faux intellectuals like Shapiro and Prager, the straight up fascists like their alt-right twitter-spheres and YT channels, the typical retired folks bombard themselves with all of it and mostly interact on FB. It's all reactionary, it's rarely coherent, logical, or substantive. It's almost all devoid of any actual ideology, especially the past naive and well-meaning (albeit still usually wrong) conservative rhetoric of the past. That's what pisses me off on top of everything, they say they are anti-government, anti-deficit, even anti-imperialist at times but when confronted with Trump's embrace of all of these policies they just deflect or deny. They often don't even pull the "whatabout the Democrats anymore!?" but instead say "well he's winning and owning the liberals" or something. Or say they are praying for all of the aborted babies or some shit. 

For younger Trump fans, especially those who are Latino or POC (and yes, they exist, especially in much of Texas) it's identity politics as the culprit. Guns, "PC" culture, 'anti-SJW' hysteria, 4chan Qanon black pill conspiracies, etc. Incel culture, gamergate, and other seemingly apolitical fringe gateways have become major factors in alt-right normalization, especially since so much relies on grey area "memes," trolling, sarcasm, dog-whistles, etc. The frustrating thing about this is it also keeps a lot of people apathetic. So many co-workers I know who don't vote or have the sentiment of "the whole system sucks" are liberal if not leftist on just about every policy but don't vote Democrat over either guns and/or because of perceived liberal PC correctness and nanny state perceptions. It's FB memes, JRE, and stuff like that as their sources. 
Most people I know who like Trump fall in the first camp. A few, including a close relative I get along with, voted for him but willingly talk about how he's an idiot not just as a person but on certain issues. They voted for him sincerely thinking he'd steer a better economy. We disagree on a lot offhand at first but can and do talk earnestly and constructively about why. I can talk with people like that all day there are just not many I know personally. I have no idea how many exist beyond the ranks of the remaining moderate GOP. I hate that Biden is running but if he does indeed pull these folks - and it appears he got Bush and Colin Powell along - then good. My pipedream of Romney and others breaking off into a moderate party are non-existent though. 

Regarding the truly insane - I know of two people for sure who are straight-up anti-Semites, anti-catholics, Qanon nuts and one def relishes the idea of killing leftists. Just straight up garbage people below their friendly exteriors I see at holiday gatherings. They've always been strange but it's still a hard pill to swallow that they've become this extreme and that such extreme rhetoric is normalized. Honestly I think they are using this more to feel smart among ignorant folks, score popularity points in their online circles and run scams via crowd-sourcing stuff but still. The one who talks tough apparently starting roiding up after getting his ass kicked for being racist in a bar. They're pathetic but the fact that they do have followers grosses me out.

It's not just echo-chamber, it's a full-blown cult mentality. At least in the early 2000s it was contained on far-right sites or blogs but post-FB, YT, IG, and Twitter it's out there and unmasked. I knew it was getting bad under Obama. I knew it was bad when I was told that going UT-Austin and said education "was a bad thing." I knew it was going to get worse when one relative, after I explained how Trump appropriated 'fake news' is literally anti-press rhetoric, lit up with glee and said he thinks that's genius. It's been almost a decade of gaslighting and weaponized disillusionment. 

I don't mince words when I say this is on the level of 1930s Italy or Germany. When you point out the doublespeak, the lies, the mental gymnastics, they embrace it. Likewise they'll readily cry and play victim and demand empathy as soon as they actually get negatively affected by anything. That too is a key component to sustaining followers of any fascist movement - they're "oppressed" by the deep state, globalists, liberal elite, etc.

Most of my friends and much of my family aren't like this. Those that do are often older and fairly cooped up in their own misery, cynicism, and ire which is why they cling to Trump. There's unrelated family drama with some that's a different issue but nonetheless overlaps in terms of dynamics.

I've tried being subtle, reasonable, patient, and likewise direct and overt but still as restrained and academic in tone. It's hopeless. I have to remind myself that I can't then get bogged down by this reality and that in my life they form a minority of people I know and interact with. I have to remind myself I'm very fortunate and content in my life and loved and listened to by many. I have to remind myself I'm not just alone but on the side of reasonable and good people. But my god I still get really fired up about it on so many levels, and much of that derives from the fact that there are people subjected to this with no Independence or escape like I have - kids in homes with extremist parents, people stuck in shit jobs with toxic bosses and/or financially trapped in some right-wing rural shithole. I get angry thinking about them and the overall state of things.

this is informative, I'll read more into and keep it in mind

Living in San Diego, I'm pretty much surrounded by the closeted Trump supporters. When we talk to each other at skateparks or in the neighborhood, they always stare at my Malcolm X ball cap. I only know one guy who is really pro-trump and his FB is filled with conspiracy theories and such telling people to go back to their country and what not. But in person? timid as fuck! I always ask my son if his son have any racists views as his father does. My boy told me that that kid lost a sponsorship and banned from a local skatepark because he got in a confrontation with a skateboarder and called him the n word. Every time I see him and his son at the skatepark I give them a Black Power greeting and say ASALAMALAKUM!

Edited June 11, 2020 by QBLA

[caze]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/11/us/politics/republican-platform.html?smid=tw-share

 

Quote

G.O.P. Platform, Rolled Over From 2016, Condemns the ‘Current President’

The party’s 2020 platform includes more than three dozen unflattering references to those in power at the White House, after the Republican National Committee chose not to change its language from four years ago.

 

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by caze

[goDel]

As always, fighting against the establishment. Sound Trump strategy. Hope he'll reuse his old tweets as well. Establishment president has more interest in playing golf, and all that. ;D

[sweepstakes]

15 hours ago, luke viia said:

jfc. read the comments on this article if you dare. the US is so depressing. 

https://townhall.com/columnists/marinamedvin/2020/06/10/75yearold-protestor-to-buffalo-officers-im-going-to-take-you-to-the-supreme-court-before-the-push-and-fall-n2570442

lmao I'm not gonna bother with the comments. What the fuck is this rag? How huge of a dipshit do you have to be to stomach this trash on the regular?

[luke viia]

20 minutes ago, sweepstakes said:

lmao I'm not gonna bother with the comments. What the fuck is this rag? How huge of a dipshit do you have to be to stomach this trash on the regular?

yeah, I should have written "article" with qualifiers, lol. stumbled upon it thru my google news feed. absolute 200% trash. The comments are horrible, people encouraging the murder and brutalizing of technowarrior old man antifa, enemy of the people. I read this kind of crap from time to time to see what the right hand imbibes, often we (yeah, us too) act as parrots bc we trust what our sources tell us, esp if we walked into it with an I Want To Believe mindset

America is one big ugh

[sweepstakes]

2 minutes ago, luke viia said:

yeah, I should have written "article" with qualifiers, lol. stumbled upon it thru my google news feed. absolute 200% trash. The comments are horrible, people encouraging the murder and brutalizing of technowarrior old man antifa, enemy of the people. I read this kind of crap from time to time to see what the right hand imbibes, often we (yeah, us too) act as parrots bc we trust what our sources tell us, esp if we walked into it with an I Want To Believe mindset

America is one big ugh

I was laughing my way through the article, but yeah, the fact that people take this seriously this is truly depressing.

I honestly try consciously to not be partisan most of the time, but when I read shit like this it's so hard to not just see "conservatives" as basically either total dribbling idiots or wealthy tax dodgers who vote only with their wallet.

[doublename]