2020 US Election

[ignatius]

1 hour ago, Nebraska said:

speaking for myself, i want people to vote my side because the "other" side has policies that affect me directly. if this was a simple case of just voting for someone who you find more entertaining then i'd entertain all opinions- but we find ourselves voting for how certain people are treated (due to ethnicity, gender identification), environmental issues, immigration policies, police brutality, abortion laws etc. these are suddenly very real issues that can and will affect very many people for the rest of their lives, so it's a little more complicated "they want you to vote for their side". it's more about they want you to vote in a way that does not harm or destroy their lives.

 

 

 

tangent. 

 

[Joyrex]

53 minutes ago, Valleyfold said:

That’s awful, I’m honestly sorry. Yes, Trump has mismanaged the pandemic. But that has happened in countries all over the world, and I don’t have much faith in a democratic president handling things much better. Conservatives wouldn’t wear masks if a president told them to. Biden has been instrumental in starting wars. Literal children have been blown to pieces. That’s way worse. 

Pray tell, which wars exactly did Biden have an "instrumental" hand in starting?

[Ivan Ooze]

kanye would never blow up children, just think aboot that for a second

[zero]

2 hours ago, Joyrex said:

Pray tell, which wars exactly did Biden have an "instrumental" hand in starting?

well based on his age, I was gonna go with the crusades. or maybe even some of those Mayan skirmishes back in the day.

[iococoi]

 

[Joyrex]

18 hours ago, Valleyfold said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/17/joe-biden-role-iraq-war

Hmmm. Interesting. Would you agree that perhaps he (and the committee members picked) were all misled by incorrect intelligence on Iraq, possibly created by Bush and other interested parties with the goal of invading iraq to gain control of oil reserves and pipelines?

I think it's safe to say a lot of senators probably in hindsight regret voting for war in Iraq, unless of course their own interests aligned with those wanting war for the reasons I stated above.

I can tell you that we've heard ZERO about this in the US media this election cycle so far, so good on the Guardian bringing it to light.

[caze]

I mean most democrats voted for most of the votes related to the Iraq war (even Bernie, who only voted against the final vote because it didn't have UN approval).

[Joyrex]

43 minutes ago, Valleyfold said:

Honestly I don’t know, I just know Biden has a long history in politics and a lot of it is unflattering. It is crazy what the media reports on and what they don’t, and what gets manufactured into a scandal and what doesn’t. All the stupid shit they used against Bernie...

True, very true.

But real talk - I would take an utterly corrupt Biden over another four years of Trump

[ignatius]

1 hour ago, Valleyfold said:

Honestly I don’t know, I just know Biden has a long history in politics and a lot of it is unflattering. It is crazy what the media reports on and what they don’t, and what gets manufactured into a scandal and what doesn’t. All the stupid shit they used against Bernie...

truly, this can be said about most mainstream politicians regardless of party. the things they've all gone along with or let happen without protest is pretty terrible when looking back over the last 50 years. And then there's all the stuff that isn't common knowledge. rule changes. small bills passed in silence and almost in secret with little reporting by the press. things that have consequences.  there's books about this stuff. 

for example:

Asking the question, "what went wrong," two Pulitzer Prize-winning authors present a sweeping critique of the last two decades of American history, concluding that short-sighted greed in business and government has undermined the American dream. Original.

https://www.amazon.com/America-Wrong-Donald-L-Barlett/dp/0836270010

it's a dry read but is astounding. the information contained about the structural corruption of congress is maddening. 

[caze]

Biden is probably one of the least corrupt US politicians, over his long career he's generally been the poorest member of congress, pretty much just takes his government salary, not interested in enriching himself beyond that.

[sheatheman]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/10/27/upshot/biden-trump-poll-quiz.html?action=click&module=Editors Picks&pgtype=Homepage

[zero]

1 hour ago, caze said:

Biden is probably one of the least corrupt US politicians, over his long career he's generally been the poorest member of congress, pretty much just takes his government salary, not interested in enriching himself beyond that.

I get the sentiment. he does come across as a bit of a nothing man, the classic lifetime government employee. I was really hoping there was someone else the dems could have found in the past 4 years that wasn't a political dinosaur. 

but there is no other option. I voted for him. no way in fucking hell am I crazy enough to vote trump. and throwing away a vote to some 3rd party right now is also not the way to go. anything to get that orange fucker out. 

[Joyrex]

One way to think about this (and maybe if Trump were smart they'd focus more on this than Biden himself) is really we may be electing Kamala Harris for president, since Biden will be 80 at the end of his first term (if he lives that long; seems to be in good health), so at best he'll be a one-term president, or Kamala will finish out whatever is left of Biden's term and then run for President in 2024 herself.

It may be likely the Republicans will take back control of the White House and the Houses since the economy will likely tank in 2021 onward as a result of Trump's tax cuts and other expenditures coming due finally right around the time Biden/Harris finish their first term.

We can only hope there will never be someone like Trump again to run for office (sit down, Kanye), ever.

[dingformung]

Hope Biden can fix this (annual CO2 emissions): 

[Brisbot]

On 10/25/2020 at 11:16 PM, cyanobacteria said:

actually let's hope this is not what happens

Er, when I wrote that I had this article in mind I had read the other day that lays out 5 steps into fascism. Trump has taken the first in that direction the past 4 years - making his truth the only truth, and the rest is fake media. 
But presumably he will never be able to go all the way, unlike Hitler was able to.

Trump should be used as first red flag of the sliding descent into fascism so we can stop it right as it begins. Stop it as it begins, don't wait until he gets 3 steps in to suddenly see it for what it is. It takes time for it to seep into the roots of a country.

btw, I can't find what I was referring to, maybe someone else knows what I'm talking about. It's not really important though.

3 hours ago, Joyrex said:

It may be likely the Republicans will take back control of the White House and the Houses since the economy will likely tank in 2021 onward as a result of Trump's tax cuts and other expenditures coming due finally right around the time Biden/Harris finish their first term.

This is so true. Republicans know what they are doing. I get so tired of arguing about the inflation bubble with republicans who take things at face value because it's what they WANT to believe.

[may be rude]

2 hours ago, Brisbot said:

5 hours ago, Joyrex said:

It may be likely the Republicans will take back control of the White House and the Houses since the economy will likely tank in 2021 onward as a result of Trump's tax cuts and other expenditures coming due finally right around the time Biden/Harris finish their first term.

This is so true. Republicans know what they are doing. I get so tired of arguing about the inflation bubble with republicans who take things at face value because it's what they WANT to believe.

in the '08 election, the dems took both chambers of congress and the white house. they inherited a US economy that had been in free fall since september of 2008 (the financial crisis). 

if the dems take both chambers and the white house, this year, then they will be walking into the dead-center of flu season with the whole country thoroughly seeded with covid prevalence, and month 10 of the worst economic collapse since the great depression.

almost seems like republicans sabatoge the country so that the democrats won't look good. coincidentally, that would be consistent with mitch mcconnell's 12-year strategy of obstructing anything that would make the democrats look good. for example, no single republican in the house or senate voted for the '09 stimulus bill, which stopped the economic collapse and began the recovery. before its passage, they criticized it as too big. after, they criticized it as too small.

the obama/biden administration, by contrast, presided over the longest uninterrupted streak of private sector job creation in US history, which spanned nearly the entirety of their administration (only excluding the first few months, as the '08 collapse bottomed out). 

Edited October 28, 2020 by very honest

[zlemflolia]

2 hours ago, Brisbot said:

Er, when I wrote that I had this article in mind I had read the other day that lays out 5 steps into fascism. Trump has taken the first in that direction the past 4 years - making his truth the only truth, and the rest is fake media. 
But presumably he will never be able to go all the way, unlike Hitler was able to.

Trump should be used as first red flag of the sliding descent into fascism so we can stop it right as it begins. Stop it as it begins, don't wait until he gets 3 steps in to suddenly see it for what it is. It takes time for it to seep into the roots of a country.

btw, I can't find what I was referring to, maybe someone else knows what I'm talking about. It's not really important though.

This is so true. Republicans know what they are doing. I get so tired of arguing about the inflation bubble with republicans who take things at face value because it's what they WANT to believe.

the Great Man Theory of understanding fascism is not a great way to look at it.  it's not about Trump or Hitler specifically as much as it's about the material conditions and the class interests of the bourgeoisie.  when they need fascism they will use it, and they'll use it no matter who's in office, Trump or Biden.  Biden would bend to their will as much as Trump would.  this clearly isn't excusing Hitler but it's more of a systemic thing related to class contradictions than merely something done by one person

[Joyrex]

24 minutes ago, very honest said:

in the '08 election, the dems took both chambers of congress and the white house. they inherited a US economy that had been in free fall since september of 2008. the iraq occupation, insurrection, and civil war had reached its most violent point only two years earlier, and iraq was still wracked with mass-casualty bombings on a monthly basis. 

if the dems take both chambers and the white house, this year, then they will be walking into the dead-center of flu season with the whole country thoroughly seeded with covid prevalence, and month 10 of the worst economic collapse since the great depression.

almost seems like republicans sabatoge the country so that the democrats wouldn't look good. coincidentally, that would be consistent with mitch mcconnell's 12-year strategy of obstructing anything that would make the democrats look good. for example, no single republican in the house or senate voted for the '09 stimulus bill, which stopped the economic collapse and began the recovery. 

Yeah, history is going to repeat itself again (possibly) for the third time:

1992-2000 - Clinton administration leaves the US with a budget surplus for I think the first time in history

2000-2008 - Bush administration single-handedly wipes out said surplus and plunges us into worst economic recession since the great depression, and incites two wars, both of which the US is still intertwined with to this day and no end in sight.

2008-2016 - Obama administration slowly and painfully rebuilds economy from the brink of collapse into a depression back into positive territory, albeit at the expense of the taxpayer and increasing the federal deficit to historic levels.

2016-2020 - Trump administration rides the incoming wave set in motion by Obama, and further juices the economy by handing out massive tax cuts to the wealthy and corporations, all the while increasing the deficit to even higher levels. The Coronavirus pandemic plunges the economy back into near great recession territory, coupled with job losses and unemployment not seen since the great depression.

2021 - Whichever administration takes or continues control, it will be saddled with an almost uncontrollable deficit, historic unemployment levels, and a pandemic with no signs of ending anytime soon despite the promise of a vaccine, which most experts agree likely won't be widely available until late 2021 or possibly into 2022. Millions may lose health care coverage, and millions more will be plunged into poverty, possibly triggering a second great depression rivaling the one from the 1930's that may spread worldwide due to globalization.

[ignatius]

i think i posted this in this thread already but in case i didn't .. it's a good overview of their lives and how they got to where they are now. about 2 hours long. seems a fair take on the main events if you would like to get a bird's eye view of who they are.  

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/the-choice-2020-trump-vs-biden/

[Joyrex]

19 minutes ago, ignatius said:

i think i posted this in this thread already but in case i didn't .. it's a good overview of their lives and how they got to where they are now. about 2 hours long. seems a fair take on the main events if you would like to get a bird's eye view of who they are.  

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/the-choice-2020-trump-vs-biden/

Yes, PBS/NPR tend (I find) to be about as fair and balanced as the media can be these days

[may be rude]

3 hours ago, Joyrex said:

3 hours ago, very honest said:

in the '08 election, the dems took both chambers of congress and the white house. they inherited a US economy that had been in free fall since september of 2008. the iraq occupation, insurrection, and civil war had reached its most violent point only two years earlier, and iraq was still wracked with mass-casualty bombings on a monthly basis. 

if the dems take both chambers and the white house, this year, then they will be walking into the dead-center of flu season with the whole country thoroughly seeded with covid prevalence, and month 10 of the worst economic collapse since the great depression.

almost seems like republicans sabatoge the country so that the democrats wouldn't look good. coincidentally, that would be consistent with mitch mcconnell's 12-year strategy of obstructing anything that would make the democrats look good. for example, no single republican in the house or senate voted for the '09 stimulus bill, which stopped the economic collapse and began the recovery. 

Expand   Expand   Expand  

Yeah, history is going to repeat itself again (possibly) for the third time:

1992-2000 - Clinton administration leaves the US with a budget surplus for I think the first time in history

2000-2008 - Bush administration single-handedly wipes out said surplus and plunges us into worst economic recession since the great depression

2008-2016 - Obama administration slowly and painfully rebuilds economy from the brink of collapse into a depression back into positive territory, albeit at the expense of the taxpayer and increasing the federal deficit to historic levels.

2016-2020 - Trump administration rides the incoming wave set in motion by Obama, and further juices the economy by handing out massive tax cuts to the wealthy and corporations, all the while increasing the deficit to even higher levels. The Coronavirus pandemic plunges the economy back into near great recession territory, coupled with job losses and unemployment not seen since the great depression.

2021 - Whichever administration takes or continues control, it will be saddled with an almost uncontrollable deficit, historic unemployment levels, and a pandemic with no signs of ending anytime soon despite the promise of a vaccine, which most experts agree likely won't be widely available until late 2021 or possibly into 2022. Millions may lose health care coverage, and millions more will be plunged into poverty, possibly triggering a second great depression rivaling the one from the 1930's that may spread worldwide due to globalization.

 

yep

top, key measures of a country's economy include:

 

• unemployment rate: 

 

• gdp:

 

• job creation:

 

trump supporters say trump is not responsible for the pandemic's impact on the US, but that is just what him and fox tell them. experts say the opposite. 

• Study Finds ‘Single Largest Driver’ of Coronavirus Misinformation: Trump 
• U.S. Image Plummets Internationally as Most Say Country Has Handled Coronavirus Badly 
• 'He has blood on his hands': Columbia University study shows that Trump could have avoided over 130,000 COVID-19 deaths with a more robust pandemic response
• How Trump damaged science — and why it could take decades to recover

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by very honest

[zero]

I wish the press and all the talking heads would stop reporting on how well Biden is doing in the polls, and how all signs make it look like he'll be president. it's just asking for it... like toward the end of a horror movie when the teens being chased are like "phew, we made it." then the deranged psycho killer comes lunging out from nowhere and stabs them all to death.

[Hugh Mughnus]

9 minutes ago, zero said:

I wish the press and all the talking heads would stop reporting on how well Biden is doing in the polls, and how all signs make it look like he'll be president. it's just asking for it... like toward the end of a horror movie when the teens being chased are like "phew, we made it." then the deranged psycho killer comes lunging out from nowhere and stabs them all to death.

Agreed. And if anything it will encourage more trump voters to go to the polls lol

[cruising for burgers]

20 minutes ago, zero said:

I wish the press and all the talking heads would stop reporting on how well Biden is doing in the polls, and how all signs make it look like he'll be president. it's just asking for it... like toward the end of a horror movie when the teens being chased are like "phew, we made it." then the deranged psycho killer comes lunging out from nowhere and stabs them all to death.

Trump is the final girl... 

Just saw a reporter on TV saying that that was basically what happened in 2016...

[Braintree]

28 minutes ago, zero said:

I wish the press and all the talking heads would stop reporting on how well Biden is doing in the polls, and how all signs make it look like he'll be president. it's just asking for it... like toward the end of a horror movie when the teens being chased are like "phew, we made it." then the deranged psycho killer comes lunging out from nowhere and stabs them all to death.

Even fivethirtyeight says GOP still has a chance to win the election although Biden is heavily favored to win.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/?cid=rrpromo

Quote

Take Pennsylvania, the state our forecast currently thinks is most likely to decide the election. Biden doesn’t have much extra cushion in polls there, so a 2016-magnitude polling error could deliver the state to Trump. Remember, Trump has a meaningful chance of winning the election, per our forecast — a little worse than the chances of rolling a 1 on a six-sided die and a little better than the chances that it’s raining in downtown Los Angeles. And remember, it does rain there. (Downtown L.A. has about 36 rainy days per year, or about a 1-in-10 shot of a rainy day.)