Russia is now bombing Ukraine

[cichlisuite]

20 minutes ago, Enthusiast said:

I don't agree that there is any value in indulging fake news bots or the people who  repost their memes and conspiracies. It's not the same as healthy debate. In this situation, where civilians are being massacred by an invading power - anything but the truth is an attempt to muddy the waters to the benefit of the aggressor. 

On a serious note, you mentioned a healthy debate, which means that all viewpoints have to be discussed and ruled in/out, even those that we might not like, Because the real truth is ugly on both sides (and most probably we're never going to know the real truth that is being discussed behind closed doors). The world has become so convoluted in agendas these days and no one is a saint: the 'west' has as much blood and shit on their hands, we cannot deny that, and it is being obscured as a form of narrative (e.g. "we are the good guys"). If we go by moral standards, no one should really be pointing fingers at this point and accusing the other for being a terrorist, because they all have blood on their hands. Russia is playing their propaganda game on whitewashing their moral standpoint against the west, but so does the west against Russia. But behind the curtains of this theatre, a different game is being played: that of opportunism. Can really anyone tell what news is "fake" and what isn't? The ugly truth is, unless one devotes a large majority of one's free time into analyzing all the different major and fringe sources and opinions from all overlapping fields, and invest some brain power into it, one is not going to be able to follow the thread of real truth, but instead just eat whatever suits one's preferred construction of reality. That is a problem. It's a symptom of a different reality.

The real question is why didn't the west take Putin seriously before he started his shit in Ukraine? All the facts pointed in this direction, yet, the people in power did not act. I'm seeing multiple historical bells ringing here. Was it disbelief because of some sort of hubris? Was it opportunism? Incompetence? I'm going to refrain myself from telling my opinion on this.

[zlemflolia]

35 minutes ago, usagi said:

that's nice, did you also note the part at 1:01:05 where he clearly points out that the whole nazi thing is a red herring? here it is for your convenience:

A brief comment regarding the Azov Nazis. look, I come from a country where we had Nazis in parliament, the third largest party. that doesn't make the Greeks Nazis. so yes, there are Ukrainian Nazis, so what? this doesn't take away from the liberation struggle taking place today in Kharkiv, in Kiev, and so on. so let's- every country has its Nazis. even the best countries have them. there is no such thing as a homogenous country.

how does that align with the shit you've been posting where you pretend evil Ukrainian Nazis are responsible for the conflict, therefore the Ukrainian side as a whole is responsible for this war, they're putting their own in harm's way by not standing down and allowing the Russians to trample over them, they're massacring their own people in the east, etc?

what makes you think i disagree with what he said?  yes the ukrainian government is putting its people in harms way by not making an agreement with russia.  yes, they are massacring their own people in the east and have been for a long time

[custom knob]

6 minutes ago, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

what makes you think i disagree with what he said?  yes the ukrainian government is putting its people in harms way by not making an agreement with russia.  yes, they are massacring their own people in the east and have been for a long time

Using this logic I assume you’d agree that Russia is putting its own people in harms way by not making an agreement with the west

 

[cichlisuite]

58 minutes ago, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

....we need neutrality agreement for ukraine made by biden and putin immediately and to remove troops and immediately provide material aid unconditionally to everyone in ukraine, except nazis

I don't think Biden is a neutral party in this scenario

[zlemflolia]

9 minutes ago, custom knob said:

Using this logic I assume you’d agree that Russia is putting its own people in harms way by not making an agreement with the west

 

of course, the working class is universally the victims of this, including the russian people sanctioned and spending money on this war, even the russian soldiers themselves.  the owning class sits back and watches as bourgeois nationalistic wars are fought by worker against worker

8 minutes ago, cichlisuite said:

I don't think Biden is a neutral party in this scenario

exactly, he is the controller of NATO, he is not neutral so he has to agree to make Ukraine neutral by promising they won't join NATO, and stop funding Ukrainian Nazis and coups

Edited March 22, 2022 by ilqx hermolia xpli

[usagi]

52 minutes ago, Enthusiast said:

I don't agree that there is any value in indulging fake news bots or the people who  repost their memes and conspiracies. It's not the same as healthy debate. In this situation, where civilians are being massacred by an invading power - anything but the truth is an attempt to muddy the waters to the benefit of the aggressor. 

I agree with this btw. on paper, the things zazen said about allowing for varied voices in order to have a more well-rounded view are important, but that only works when people act in good faith and have something of value to contribute. knowing zeff's track record, I have no reason to believe he's ever been capable of doing either of those things. nothing constructive has ever come from his antics. he's driven primarily by attention-seeking contrarianism and will grasp at any straw that allows possible alignment with his pre-determined anti-west/cummunist/whatever bullshit agenda it is for the day. there is no desire to know the actual truth because that might challenge those pre-determined beliefs. when he's inevitably backed into a corner on some nonsensical position or other, he learns nothing and changes nothing, just weaselly moves the goalposts so that the bullshit can continue. it's a complete waste of time.

a forum ban is excessive but I'd have booted him from the thread by now, if that's even possible. he's taken up too much oxygen in here. (also he smells)

[chenGOD]

3 hours ago, dcom said:

So it's just stiff upper lip, eh?

Not quite sure that's an appropriate use of the idiom here - not much adversity, no one is really emotional.

 

2 hours ago, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

this is what happens when we promote an environment where only pro-ukraine anti-russian information is allowed to be discussed, independent journalists fear for their lives and shut down:
https://t.me/asbmil/868

>In light of recent developments in the information-sharing community/OSINT & news— the team has decided to end our coverage of the Ukraine-Russia war. It’s too risky for some members of our team who reside in countries where authorities don’t tolerate people providing alternative coverage to the mainstream narrative and they refuse to take that risk. We hope you guys find good coverage elsewhere. We will continue to cover the Middle East as normal.

I'm assuming they live in Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, or possibly Myanmar - since those are countries that actually "disappear" journalists.

1 hour ago, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

we need neutrality agreement for ukraine made by biden and putin immediately

Uh or you know, Russia could withdraw its troops (from all of Ukraine, including the Donbas and Crimea as the aggressor, Putin should resign in disgrace, and Russia should responsible for war reparations. This neutrality option is a massive red herring, and Russia will not hesitate to attack again.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-president-says-any-compromises-with-russia-will-require-referendum-2022-03-21/

 

2 hours ago, Enthusiast said:

It's not the same as healthy debate. ...anything but the truth is an attempt to muddy the waters to the benefit of the aggressor. 

I agree with the first - but there is value in that it makes it easier to recognize when you see it in the wild - if he's posting it, you can 99% be sure that it's not legitimate or is heavy on the weasel words. It's still not worth it to censor him. You can put him on ignore, that's quite easy to do.

[chenGOD]

1 hour ago, cichlisuite said:

The real question is why didn't the west take Putin seriously before he started his shit in Ukraine? All the facts pointed in this direction, yet, the people in power did not act

Leading up to 2014-15, you had an awful government in power in Ukraine who had made friendly overtures to Russia, and then you had an illegitimate referendum in Crimea (after months and months of soft occupation by the Russians). Obama was nearing the end of his term as President, and the big European powers wanted nothing to with the situation in a meaningful sense, because of internal cluster-fuckery (UK), over-reliance on Russian natural gas (Germany), and general malaise (rest of Europe). No one wanted to start another war.

[zlemflolia]

29 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Uh or you know, Russia could withdraw its troops (from all of Ukraine, including the Donbas and Crimea as the aggressor, Putin should resign in disgrace, and Russia should responsible for war reparations. This neutrality option is a massive red herring, and Russia will not hesitate to attack again.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-president-says-any-compromises-with-russia-will-require-referendum-2022-03-21/

sounds good, won't happen.  crimea is another issue, the people voted to become part of russia and are almost all russians.  donbas, ukraine better withdraw its troops too causing so many Ukrainian casualties over the past decade.  putin is not going to resign, russia should definitely be responsible for reparations

59 minutes ago, usagi said:

[garbage censored]

i bet if we went back and counted, more words were spent discussing me than words I wrote.  maybe get a new hobby instead of pontificating on yours truly lmao

Edited March 22, 2022 by ilqx hermolia xpli

[chenGOD]

9 minutes ago, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

sounds good, won't happen.

That's not for us to say - and the people of Ukraine should have the most important input, as per the article I linked.

 

10 minutes ago, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

crimea is another issue, the people voted to become part of russia and are almost all russians. 

The referendum was widely seen as illegal - mostly because of the part where they had Russian soldiers all over the place.

 

13 minutes ago, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

donbas, ukraine better withdraw its troops

The donbas situation was caused by Russian illegal annexation of Crimea, so again, Russia needs to withdraw.

[usagi]

what's that weird smell?

[zlemflolia]

certain sources are suggesting there are instances of azov torturing ukrainian civilians using the pretense of them being "russian sabateurs"

[J3FF3R00]

50 minutes ago, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

certain sources are suggesting there are instances of azov torturing ukrainian civilians using the pretense of them being "russian sabateurs"

I’m sure you’ve cross-checked and vetted all of them but please, do share your sources with us. 

 

[zlemflolia]

21 minutes ago, J3FF3R00 said:

I’m sure you’ve cross-checked and vetted all of them but please, do share your sources with us. 

 

there are videos of old babushkas crying ranting about azov.  i don't speak ukrainian but they are crying and say azov and banderites ranting about fascists, you can hear those words.  theyre tying people to light poles with signs on them and beating them, some of the victims are children.  its too difficult to watch and i am not going to watch all of the videos.  all of the sources are promptly deleted off social media so all that remains is aggregations of content from secondary sources.  it is impossible to vet sources in the age of social media censorship

you guys can attack me all you want but you are really spitting in the face of the victims, i am not one.

they are taping them to trees and whipping them or beating them

Edited March 22, 2022 by ilqx hermolia xpli

[zlemflolia]

they're tying them to traffic signs then taking their pants off and leaving them in the freezing cold to get frostbite, both men and women, beating them with sticks and belts.  i wont tolerate any bullshit excuses for these fascists

Edited March 22, 2022 by ilqx hermolia xpli

[zlemflolia]

compilation of testimonials from ukrainians

https://imgur.com/a/DQcjftF

Edited March 22, 2022 by ilqx hermolia xpli

[zlemflolia]

extremely nsfw images from ukrainian fascist social media torturing civilians for doing things like stealing food or breaking bullshit curfew rules, or being part of a racial group they don't like (roma people with their faces painted green with toxic paint that i posted earlier which people in this thread facepalmed at rather than sympathizing with these victims)

some of them have extremely cringe music tracks as if it's meant to be funny or cool or something that they taped people to these poles:

warning NSFW

https://t.me/s/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses

Edited March 22, 2022 by ilqx hermolia xpli

[dcom]

4 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Not quite sure that's an appropriate use of the idiom here - not much adversity, no one is really emotional.

I was referring to myself, as I become easily irritated and incensed, and there is definite adversity, animosity even. Seems to be just me, then, so I'll just bugger off.

[zlemflolia]

Just now, dcom said:

I was referring to myself, as I become easily irritated and incensed, and there is definite adversity, animosity even. Seems to be just me, then, so I'll just bugger off.

please relax, im literally just an autistic loser, this dose not deserve so many posts about me

[ignatius]

 

[Soloman Tump]

Quote

forum

noun [ C ]

UK  /ˈfɔː.rəm/ US  /ˈfɔːr.əm/plural forums or or fora UK/fɔː.rə/ US/ˈfɔːr.ə/

forum noun [C] (MEETING)

 

a situation or meeting in which people can talk about a problem or matter especially of public interest:

 

[psn]

The main problem is that we're now discussing the troll instead of the fucking war.

[zlemflolia]

1 minute ago, psn said:

The main problem is that we're now discussing the troll instead of the fucking war.

im not a troll im discussing the war, its you guys who keep talking about me.  yes, you included.  ive asked you all to stop lots of times and even chen has but youre all just so desperate for gossip in your boring lives, just as boring as mine, that you cant help but comment.  so for the love of god keep the thread on topic from this point on thank you very much

[chenGOD]

1 hour ago, dcom said:

I was referring to myself, as I become easily irritated and incensed, and there is definite adversity, animosity even. Seems to be just me, then, so I'll just bugger off.

ah lol, yes I see that now. Well now, steady on old chap, no need to act rashly.

[ARPA]

Interesting read:

https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/ivan-krastev-on-russia-s-invasion-of-ukraine-putin-lives-in-historic-analogies-and-metaphors-a-1d043090-1111-4829-be90-c20fd5786288