Russia is now bombing Ukraine

[ignatius]

4 minutes ago, zkom said:

Nothing to see here..

Two Russian oligarch's already found dead with their families https://www.businessinsider.com/2-russian-oligarchs-found-dead-spain-moscow-reports-2022-4?r=US&IR=T

 

this is brutal stuff. and spanish authorities saying "we think they might be connected but we're not sure how"

oof. this shit is only gonna get worse. gotta wonder if there's little cells of ukrainians doing some gorilla warfare if this stuff is just coincidence. 

[thefxbip]

My first thought was: its Putin getting rid of 'em.

He seems to have a pattern of eliminating enemies even on foreign soil.

But who knows...

Grim stuff. Like the mafia.

Edited April 21, 2022 by thefxbip

[may be rude]

4 hours ago, ignatius said:

this is brutal stuff. and spanish authorities saying "we think they might be connected but we're not sure how"

oof. this shit is only gonna get worse. gotta wonder if there's little cells of ukrainians doing some gorilla warfare if this stuff is just coincidence. 

i was thinking killed by puttin....

[chenGOD]

8 hours ago, ignatius said:

spanish authorities saying "we think they might be connected but we're not sure how"

The Spanish one seems like a murder suicide...maybe the dude was anticipating being put on a sanctions list? He's not on any currently and his net worth was only like $450 million so Putin couldn't have valued him that much..or feared him...

[ignatius]

59 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

The Spanish one seems like a murder suicide...maybe the dude was anticipating being put on a sanctions list? He's not on any currently and his net worth was only like $450 million so Putin couldn't have valued him that much..or feared him...

could be.  he has killed plenty of poor people and journalists for 'reasons'. so, any rich russian who 'talks back' could get wacked just for that. he's not someone who gives a shit. 

but yeah.. could be anything. anything can happen to anyone at any time. putin has been on a kinda purge in recent weeks. high profile arrests of security people and advisors etc. 

edit: this bit from that linked articles says the dude was...

Quote

Protosenya was the former vice president and chief accountant of Novatek, a major gas company with close connections to Gazprombank.

Protosenya left no suicide note, and there were no bloodstains on his body, El Punta Vui reported, without citing sources.

He had a personal fortune of more than $433 million, according to Telecinco. 

Neither of the men were on an international sanctions list in the Ukraine-Russia conflict.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by ignatius

[YEK]

I'm looking for more videos like the channel 5 one, any help?

[EdamAnchorman]

On 4/21/2022 at 10:58 PM, chenGOD said:

The Spanish one seems like a murder suicide...maybe the dude was anticipating being put on a sanctions list? He's not on any currently and his net worth was only like $450 million so Putin couldn't have valued him that much..or feared him...

Maybe he was just a low-level, low collateral damage kill for Putin to send a message to the others.

[Enthusiast]

Reading this at the moment. Highly recommended along with his previous book, Red Notice. They read like thrillers tbh. 

It helps to understand how the Kremlin, the oligarchs, the FSB and organised crime are all interlinked and in many cases overlap in Putin's Russia.

[chenGOD]

57 minutes ago, Enthusiast said:

Reading this at the moment. Highly recommended along with his previous book, Red Notice. They read like thrillers tbh. 

It helps to understand how the Kremlin, the oligarchs, the FSB and organised crime are all interlinked and in many cases overlap in Putin's Russia.

Thanks, didn’t know he had a second one. Red Notice was great. 

[ignatius]

ukraine reaching out. 

https://ukrainecrisis.org/242444682-breaking-giant-inferno-at-russian-oil-depot-and-army-facility-amid-suspected-strike-by-ukraine

BREAKING Giant inferno at Russian oil depot and army facility amid suspected strike by Ukraine

11 MINUTES AGO

The fires followed huge explosions at the Druzhba oil depot in Bryansk city, where a military unit of the 120th arsenal of the Main Rocket and Artillery Directorate is located BREAKING Giant inferno at Russian oil depot and army facility amid suspected strike by Ukraine A huge blaze has broken out at two oil storage depots and a military facility in central Russia following a suspected strike by Ukraine . The fires followed huge explosions at the Druzhba oil depot in Bryansk city, where a military unit of the 120th arsenal of the Main Rocket and Artillery Directorate is located. The Druzhba pipeline, which is operated by Transneft , is the world's longest oil pipeline and one of the biggest oil pipeline networks in the world. While just one fire was initially reported, later reports said that two Transneft oil facilities were ablaze. One was near School 28 in Bryansk, the other at the location of Snezhetsky Val. Want all the latest news and analysis from Ukraine? Sign up to our World News Bulletin here The flames can be seen over the entire city of Bryansk.

[may be rude]

very interesting reporting on russian disinfo: https://crooked.com/podcast/are-russians-buying-putins-propaganda

[EdamAnchorman]

On 4/28/2022 at 9:01 PM, trying to be less rude said:

very interesting reporting on russian disinfo: https://crooked.com/podcast/are-russians-buying-putins-propaganda

That guy seemed extremely knowledgeable on the Russian aspect of this mess. I hope our governments have consulted or are consulting with people like him.

[may be rude]

25 minutes ago, randomsummer said:

On 4/28/2022 at 9:01 PM, trying to be less rude said:

very interesting reporting on russian disinfo: https://crooked.com/podcast/are-russians-buying-putins-propaganda

That guy seemed extremely knowledgeable on the Russian aspect of this mess. I hope our governments have consulted or are consulting with people like him.

yeah. he gets in front of government people. here's another one with pomeranzev, from 2019, also on disinfo. https://www.lawfareblog.com/lawfare-podcast-peter-pomerantsev-war-against-reality 

"the nature of propaganda has shifted as authoritarian governments move from silencing dissent to drowning dissent out with squalls of disinformation"

[EdamAnchorman]

23 hours ago, trying to be less rude said:

yeah. he gets in front of government people. here's another one with pomeranzev, from 2019, also on disinfo. https://www.lawfareblog.com/lawfare-podcast-peter-pomerantsev-war-against-reality 

"the nature of propaganda has shifted as authoritarian governments move from silencing dissent to drowning dissent out with squalls of disinformation"

Yeah they mentioned that in the first podcast, too, and made an interesting point that it's against the law (or attracts attention) at most places to straight up censor information so they've gotten around it by just drowning it out with their own BS.

 It's good that he gets in front of governments, but then they have to first listen to him and then figure out what/how to implement the correct measures.

[may be rude]

The Battle of Donbas is raging high, but it’s not going the way Russia wanted it to. 

Almost 20 days in, the much-anticipated and feared grand offensive falls short of expectations. 

It is still not even close to achieving its ultimate goal — the encircling and crippling of the core Ukrainian military group in the region. 

Amid fierce hostilities, Russia has only managed to achieve limited territorial gains at significant cost. 

Slow and painful, the offensive has gradually stalled amid weak Russian reserves and strong Ukrainian defenses. 

The assault appears destined to fall short of the symbolic success that Russia likely wished to achieve prior to Victory Day on May 9, the day on which Russia commemorates its role in the defeat of Nazi Germany in World War II. 

Broken axis

Prior to the beginning of the Donbas offensive in early April, Russia, according to estimates, concentrated a total of somewhere between 76 and 87 battalion tactical grounds (BTGs) in Ukraine – a total of around 70,000-80,000 troops. 

According to the U.S. Department of Defense, over 22 BTGs were positioned in Russia’s Belgorod Oblast, likely to be replenished and remain in reserve. 

These units essentially constituted the entire combat-capable force and reserve that Russia could dedicate to the campaign. 

The failed blitzkrieg that followed, upon estimates by the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defense, rendered nearly a quarter of Russia’s 120-125 BTGs incapable of any major operations. 

What stood against Russia’s offensive, according to Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky, was a Ukrainian force of nearly 44,000 troops concentrated in heavily fortified, urban areas in central Donbas – the cities of Sloviansk, Kramatorsk, Sievierodonetsk, Lysychansk, and the northern parts of Russian-occupied Donetsk. 

Read also: EXPLAINER: What to expect from the Battle of Donbas, Russia’s new offensive

In this new operation, Russia was to eliminate the Ukrainian salient with two massive strikes from the north (along the Izium-Sloviansk highway) and from the south of the Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk oblasts. 

The two key axes were to meet up in between, effectively cutting the Ukrainian force off from supplies and the rest of the country.

A critical axis was also to surround the Sievierodonetsk-Lysychansk area, bisecting the Ukrainian salient. 

The map shows the approximate Russian strike axes (red) and Ukrainian defense belts (blue) in the early stage of the Battle of Donbas (Liveuamap/The Kyiv Independent)

The start of Russia’s key offensive in Donbas was confirmed by Zelensky on April 18. Hostilities in the region never died down from day one of the big invasion but, in mid-April, Russian forces partially regrouped and focused on Donbas as the central prize.

However, as of early May, mere days before the May 9 deadline by which the Kremlin appears to have wanted to display some sort of “victory,” Russian forces have managed to achieve little. 

Over two weeks of intense fighting, Russia has advanced by no more than 20-30 kilometers in either of the two axes, within a salient of nearly 14,000 square kilometers – roughly the size of the U.S. state of Connecticut. 

The Russian military has made some limited gains south of Izium in Kharkiv Oblast, having advanced toward Barvinkove. But, as of early May, it has not managed to gain access to Izium or gain a foothold along the Barvinkove-Sloviansk road, which would allow it to approach Sloviansk from the west.

Russia currently has 25 BTGs attempting to advance in this direction, according to the British Ministry of Defense. 

On the other axis, Russian forces since mid-April have managed to begin outflanking the Sievierodonetsk-Lysychansk area in Luhansk Oblast, having entered the town of Kreminna and moved some 30 kilometers west towards the towns of Yarova and Liman, where continue to face resilient Ukrainian defenses. 

This advancement constitutes Russia’s biggest progress thus far after nearly three weeks of intense fighting.

On April 25, Russian forces also seized the town of Novotoshkivske in Luhansk Oblast, which had been razed to the ground amid hostilities and abandoned by civilians. 

No significant progress has been achieved by Russia since then. 

It is critical to note that, according to Western intelligence, the Kremlin likely counted on a decisive victory, including the complete seizure of Mariupol, by early May. 

On the southern axis, parts of Russia’s 58th Combined Arms Army have also failed to demonstrate any significant gains in the recent weeks. 

Ukrainian units continue to successfully defend key points of Huliaipole, Velyka Novosilka, and Vuhledar in Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk oblasts since mid-March, preventing the Russian axis from moving north.

According to the Pentagon, the southern deadlock appeared to have been so tight that Russia decided to withdraw at least two BTGs from Mariupol (despite ongoing attempts to take the Azovstal steel plant by storm) and likely redeploy them to Donbas.  

The Battle of Donbas’ map looks virtually the same since the Russian withdrawal from the north in late March. 

“Due to strong Ukrainian resistance, Russian territorial gains have been limited and achieved at significant costs to Russian forces,” the U.K. Ministry of Defense stated on April 29. 

Moreover, according to British intelligence, following the battles of Kyiv, Sumy, and Chernihiv, the Kremlin had limited time to re-equip and reorganize its forces before the Donbas Offensive. Therefore, this reality, alongside poor morale, has hindered Russia’s combat effectiveness and the offensive’s momentum. 

By early May, Russian attempts to advance stalled on all axes.

The map shows the approximate Russian strike axes (red) and Ukrainian defense belts (blue) in the early stage of the Battle of Donbas (Liveuamap/The Kyiv Independent)

Mobile defense

Since the end of the Battle of Kyiv, Russia appears to have learned some lessons.

Rather than head-on, frontal pushes, Putin’s forces have been methodically probing Ukrainian defenses and trying to hit where it hurts, enjoying quantitative superiority in terms of artillery power. 

Meanwhile, Ukrainian forces are sticking to mobile defense tactics that have succeeded in undermining the Russian blitzkrieg in the north.  

Instead of taking a hard and static defense against a technically superior enemy, the Ukrainian military maneuvers and rotates reserves, taking advantage of local terrain and exhausting Russian forces. 

As such, Ukraine’s military retreated from Kreminna on April 18, a town northwest of Sievierodonetsk, to avoid being overwhelmed and to continue exhausting Russian forces for more suitable defense lines.

April’s rainy forecast, alongside the rugged, forested terrain of central Donbas also played in Ukraine’s favor.

Ukrainian forces have also continued to outmatch Russia in terms of unmanned aerial vehicles surveilling battlefields. The abundance of Western-provided, man-portable anti-aircraft weapons (particularly, advanced British-made Martlet MANPADs) has also helped the Ukrainian military limit the Russian artillery’s situational awareness as scores of Orlan-10s and other UAVs were downed.

Notably, as of May 6, Russia has not managed to overwhelm or surround any of Ukraine’s heavily fortified strongpoints and has also failed to merge their attack axes coming from Izium and Rubizhne in central Donbas.

Since the very beginning of the full-scale war, it has also failed to break through the old Donbas frontline in its best-defended sections, particularly near Donetsk and parts of Luhansk Oblast.

Even when it comes to overtaking the highway running southeast between Izium and Slovyansk, or the open steppe of Zaporizhia Oblast, Russian forces have found it costly to move on. 

What lies ahead of Russia in the Battle of Donbas is a range of heavily fortified strongpoints, prepared for a long-lasting and fierce defense, including Sloviansk, Sievierodonetsk, Kurakhove, and Avdiivka.

At the same time, Ukraine’s rear appears to have motivated and experienced reserves at its disposal, particularly the 3rd and the 4th Tank Brigade units deployed to the Sloviansk-Kramatorsk area.

Nonetheless, Russia has not ceased its attempts to gnaw through Ukrainian defenses, even though its main forces have been in hard combat for more than 14 days. 

As of May 6, local authorities report fierce fighting near Sievierodonetsk, with Russian forces trying to attack the city from multiple directions. 

A Ukrainian tank man pictured near the town of Zolote in Luhansk Oblast on March 6, 2022. (ANATOLII STEPANOV/AFP via Getty Images)

Counter-offensive

In addition, Russia appears to have a rather scarce reserve for a large-scale operation that is the territorial size of the 1943 Battle of Kursk.

North of Kharkiv Oblast, Russia still deploys parts of the 6th Combined Arms Army, particularly the 200th Brigade, which is known to have sustained heavy losses near Kharkiv and withdrew for recovery. 

Following nearly three weeks of the Battle of Donbas, the expert community is increasingly doubtful about any prospects of Russian success in the operation.  

“Further Russian reinforcements to the Izium axis are unlikely to enable stalled Russian forces to achieve substantial advances,” the Institute of the Study of War (ISW), a Washington D.C.-based think tank, said on April 30. 

“Russian forces appear increasingly unlikely to achieve any major advances in eastern Ukraine, and Ukrainian forces may be able to conduct wider counterattacks in the coming days.”

And indeed, on May 5, Ukraine’s Commander-in-Chief Valeriy Zaluzhniy announced in a conversation with the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Mark Milley that Ukrainian forces launched “counter-offensive actions” near Kharkiv and Izium. 

Even before that, Ukraine’s military and U.S. intelligence both said that Ukrainian forces have managed to advance 40 kilometers near Kharkiv, mainly in areas northeast of the city. 

On May 6, the Ukrainian military reported the liberation of a number of towns some 30 kilometers northeast of the city, having pushed the Russian forces farther north to the state border.

Ukraine’s activity in the region will likely be of secondary, auxiliary nature to divert parts of the main Russian forces in Donbas. 

“The Ukrainian counteroffensive out of Kharkiv city may disrupt Russian forces northeast of Kharkiv and will likely force Russian forces to decide whether to reinforce positions near Kharkiv or risk losing most or all of their positions within artillery range of the city,” the ISW wrote on May 5. 

“Russian forces made few advances in continued attacks in eastern Ukraine, and Ukrainian forces may be able to build their ongoing counterattacks and repulse Russian attacks along the Izyum axis into a wider counter offensive to retake Russian-occupied territory in Kharkiv Oblast.”

 

 

https://kyivindependent.com/national/russias-offensive-in-donbas-bogs-down/

Edited May 7, 2022 by trying to be less rude

[ignatius]

^^^^ apparently there's lot's of russian soldiers waiting for the call to head to the front in donbas region. 

if vice news is something to be believed. 

 

[may be rude]

the funding is going to run out. maybe soon.

[ignatius]

14 minutes ago, trying to be less rude said:

the funding is going to run out. maybe soon.

ya think? idk.. seems like they can sustain some of this for a while.. maybe not all putin's plans but seems like they can fire long range missiles from ships for a bit and artillery seems cheap or something. regardless, gonna be a lot more blown up people and buildings in ukraine.  lot's of people predicting a protracted conflict that could last a year or more.. perhaps it'll smolder then spark up then smolder and on and on.. 

i wonder how long it'll be before rest of world loses patience w/putin and gets more active w/support in ukraine. can see even more robust support if ukraine gets russia on its heels more and emboldens nato etc to help deal a more crushing blow or something. 

we'll see.  it all fucking sucks.  the seemingly random fires and explosions inside russia could be guerrilla type warfare or pro ukraine russians.. but not too many leads as to who what when where with all that. 

[may be rude]

9 hours ago, ignatius said:

10 hours ago, trying to be less rude said:

the funding is going to run out. maybe soon.

ya think? idk.. seems like they can sustain some of this for a while.. maybe not all putin's plans but seems like they can fire long range missiles from ships for a bit and artillery seems cheap or something. regardless, gonna be a lot more blown up people and buildings in ukraine.  lot's of people predicting a protracted conflict that could last a year or more.. perhaps it'll smolder then spark up then smolder and on and on.. 

i'm not an expert but i've heard the war is costly. their economy is hit by boycotts, sanctions, bans, etc. their oil deals are going away, and oil is most of the economy. europe is considering a russian oil ban. oil sales to europe alone is more than 10% of russia's gdp. they were a destitute nation, before all this. they are in retreat, they abandoned the front to the north. why? it seems like russia worried they would lose gains made in donbas and in the south if they spread themselves too thin. this suggests they're already pressed for material resources and limited in what they can undertake. maybe not but it looks that way. keeping something is putin's only way to save face in retreat, he wants to keep donbas and the land bridge to crimea. they're focusing there because they're worried they could lose it. and they can, even after consolidating their forces there. they're fighting very poorly, as laid out in detail in the article above.

 

the russian army is not even painted rust, it's just rust. for all puttin's mind games, he can't change the fact that he sits on a fragile seat. it can fall out from under him if the people who have kept him in power start to lose power themselves. that is what will happen as the money goes away. that could take time to play out, but military decisions are made in advance, in anticipation. putin may withdraw to stop the bleeding. he wants to keep donbas and the south but the ukrainians will push him out.

 

i am sad to say that we have entered the danger zone - the window of time during which putin may be the most desperate

Edited May 7, 2022 by trying to be less rude

[beerwolf]

2 hours ago, trying to be less rude said:

i am sad to say that we have entered the danger zone - the window of time during which putin may be the most desperate

This is what bothers me the most. It’s been on my mind ever since the Ukrainians have given Putin a whole heap of trouble and the West is savaging them economically forever. Its easy to wonder about what a lunatic in such a desperate situation would do…..

Edited May 7, 2022 by beerwolf

[chronical]

12 hours ago, ignatius said:

^^^^ apparently there's lot's of russian soldiers waiting for the call to head to the front in donbas region. 

if vice news is something to be believed. 

 

As much as I appreciate on-the-ground footage this seems awfully scripted. Vice is weird.

[cichlisuite]

13 hours ago, ignatius said:

^^^^ apparently there's lot's of russian soldiers waiting for the call to head to the front in donbas region. 

if vice news is something to be believed. 

 

this is some weird pr stuff, and you know, it's vice...

 

2 hours ago, trying to be less rude said:

the russian army is not even painted rust, it's just rust. for all puttin's mind games, he can't change the fact that he sits on a fragile seat. it can fall out from under him if the people who have kept him in power start to lose power themselves. that is what will happen as the money goes away. that could take time to play out, but military decisions are made in advance, in anticipation. putin may withdraw to stop the bleeding. he wants to keep donbas and the south but the ukrainians will push him out.

So far Putin showed clearly he keeps his subordinates in line with fear as he allows himself to kill anyone within his structure who plays wrong or tries to sabotage his plans. And it's not only him - it's the whole apparatus below him, probably highly indoctrinated, that doesn't have the guts to oppose putin directly. The old KGB circle of accountability doctrine is quite possibly still the main way to ensure internal security. For a coup, you need a solid group of people from different echelons of command and different areas of expertise, who also have high enough confidence,  bravery and knowledge to pull it off, and actually have physical access to state resources needed for that. They also must have many contingency plans and a plan to work out security, and internal and foreign policy once Putin is removed. And according to my uninformed guess, the entire critical subordinate structure was long before replaced with spineless and incompetent cowards, because, to follow orders, you don't need sovereign and smart personalities - they need to be pliable and incompetent. And even if Putin is removed, a huge power vacuum created will most certainly cause a heavy internal struggle for power that would make any cohesive undertaking even more impossible. I hope I'm wrong, though, but this is how it seems to me so far.

It also seems that Russia had already switched to conventional warfare using more rudimentary weapons that can still be manufactured in large enough quantities to sustain the conflict: conventional artillery shells, rocket artillery, tanks with HE and HEAT shells... they have their own oil industry that can supply the army with fuel and lubricants as long as Putin made appropriate arrangements to bypass buying (with relevant currency) those resources from his internal market... They can still produce APCs and tanks, albeit without modern equipment for night fighting (night vision, IR vision, laser rangefinding, ERA armor, laser sensors, etc) So far, the Russian army achieved taking its main objectives: taking Donbass and the land-bridge to Crimea, now they need to defend it. How possible is that Ukraine will be able to retake that ground is unknown to me, and this topic was most certainly the subject of debate with foreign visitors to Zelenskyy who offered military aid.

Idk what Putin will do to save his face if Ukraine manages to retake the lost ground... both in international and internal affairs...

[EdamAnchorman]

I heard somewhere, I think that "Winter is Here" podcast series that was linked here far earlier in this thread, that the daily money Russia gets from Europe & other countries buying its oil & gas is more than Russia spends on the war every day.  So, unless that changes dramatically, we probably won't see any serious shifts in how things are going now.

[J3FF3R00]

28 minutes ago, randomsummer said:

I heard somewhere, I think that "Winter is Here" podcast series that was linked here far earlier in this thread, that the daily money Russia gets from Europe & other countries buying its oil & gas is more than Russia spends on the war every day.  So, unless that changes dramatically, we probably won't see any serious shifts in how things are going now.

Plus, his war chest is stuffed but countless corrupt billionaire oligarchs. That isn’t nothing. 

[may be rude]

35 minutes ago, cichlisuite said:

So far Putin showed clearly he keeps his subordinates in line with fear as he allows himself to kill anyone within his structure who plays wrong or tries to sabotage his plans.

he operates in a way similar to the kim dictatorship. are russians faking their acceptance of a false reality, similarly to how the north korean people fake it for fear of reprisal? 

 

41 minutes ago, cichlisuite said:

And according to my uninformed guess, the entire critical subordinate structure was long before replaced with spineless and incompetent cowards, because, to follow orders, you don't need sovereign and smart personalities - they need to be pliable and incompetent.

noticed this with trump. definitely an authoritarian tactic.

i have no idea how easy or not easy a coup would be, there, because i don't know the details. 

 

50 minutes ago, cichlisuite said:

And even if Putin is removed, a huge power vacuum created will most certainly cause a heavy internal struggle for power that would make any cohesive undertaking even more impossible. I hope I'm wrong, though, but this is how it seems to me so far.

the aftermath would also be a dangerous time, yes. 

 

53 minutes ago, cichlisuite said:

It also seems that Russia had already switched to conventional warfare using more rudimentary weapons that can still be manufactured in large enough quantities to sustain the conflict: conventional artillery shells, rocket artillery, tanks with HE and HEAT shells... they have their own oil industry that can supply the army with fuel and lubricants as long as Putin made appropriate arrangements to bypass buying (with relevant currency) those resources from his internal market... They can still produce APCs and tanks, albeit without modern equipment for night fighting (night vision, IR vision, laser rangefinding, ERA armor, laser sensors, etc)

you can say that they can do this but what we are seeing is the equipment they brought to the fight doesn't work. 

 

54 minutes ago, cichlisuite said:

So far, the Russian army achieved taking its main objectives: taking Donbass and the land-bridge to Crimea, now they need to defend it.

the ukrainian military wasn't deployed when russia invaded. they strategically withheld letting anyone know how they would react. they waited to see what russia would do. zelensky thought he wouldn't do it. putin thought zelensky would flee and the ukrainians would not put up a fight. but zelensky stayed in kyiv and and that activated everybody. and now they are just getting started

 

57 minutes ago, cichlisuite said:

How possible is that Ukraine will be able to retake that ground is unknown to me, and this topic was most certainly the subject of debate with foreign visitors to Zelenskyy who offered military aid.

they are already beating them back. they beat them back from kyiv and now they are making gains in the south