Syro Gear Discussion

[awepittance]

after a few listens it's very believable to me that most of Syro are raw multitrack recordings of computer midi sequenced hardware boxes. Listening to Rushup edge again, that almost too sounds similar but also sounds far more post processed/edited in a computer and also far cleaner (try to find hiss or noisefloor in Rushup, it's barely there). Syro is one of the most 'raw' things he's done since analord just from a production standpoint. most of the 'stutters' on syro are midi programmed fast note rolls. The last 2 jungly tracks in particular the break programming reminds me more of his mid 90s stuff than anything new in his catalog.

[xox]

i'd be more interested in hearing what speakers he use

[awepittance]

the only moment I feel like I'm hearing an FS1r on the entire album is at the very end of CIRCLONT14 (Shrymoming Mix), it sounds like he's using a very fast rolling sequence to control it, but its very quiet (barely audible on anything but headphones).

I'm curious though if he's using any FM synth drums at all on the album, ones that don't sound like obvious FM synthesis and that makes me think FS1R again because it has some pretty amazing drum patches that almost sound borderline acoustic but also beefy as fuck. I hear a lot of FM drum synthesis on MElodies from Mars, so it would seem not that crazy of a thing for him to do.

[awepittance]

a few other things I'm noticing (or imagining):

 

- almost all the 'analog' sounding quasi acid squelchy bass lines, sound like they could be FM synthesis
- all the really farty FM stuff is being done with some kind of analog modular, using maybe even the moog/arp2600 filter being modulated.

[sun drugs]

i feel like a lot of the basslines may be modular personally, the changes in filter cutoff and other sounds could be done with a modular.

then by recording the bassline into the computer he can move onto the next part of the sequence, painful process but would be a similar result to some of the syro0-ish synth work i think.

Generally i feel like when i hear things i can easily go, yep thats how they did it. loving the challenge of listening to syro from a nerd view like this.

 

hearings lots of fm too, so many nice pads. the basslines really are what its all about for me

[awepittance]

the chimes in 5:55 of Xmas Evet10 sound very much like FS1R now that i'm listening again. Not many fm synths are capable of percussive/metallic realism like that, or could be a sample what the fuck do i know .

[xox]

i just don't believe him regarding the list tbh ccn bbc ibm ocd adhd uk

[Guest capitan mission]

In an album out of so many years of work, from a technical creative wizard, i cant tell whats a DAW, whats not, etc. But surely he is experimenting with more "standard" (rock music for example) techniques, room reverbs, creative mic tricks, etc. Surely a daw is involved in some parts (or maybe nothing, maybe a lot), but its not because what could or couldn't be made with certain equipment, i think he uses a lot of setups to keep the process fun, is all about that in the end.

[flattymatty]

Quick question: If a lot of the tracks with bpm just shy of the full digit, so [141.98] etc, are these therefore controlled with a non-digital clock source? That puts the CIRCLONT twins and syro in the same bracket, and a non-computer bracket I'm guessing.

 

Hope someone with more exp than me can sus this one out.

[awepittance]

yeah that sounds about right to me, I mean tracks 6-9 & 11 sound like they came from a very specific series of studio sessions, whereas the other tracks especially 1-4 sound like they worked on at least in part with a DAW. I don't know about non digital clock source necessarily, the sequencing is complex enough that I don't think he could have done it with voltage/analog sequencing alone it would be counter intuitive. My guess is that he's probably using some kind of hardware or older like atari st computer sequencer that doesn't have a very solid clock. Even some newer digital hardware sequencers have clocks where if you recorded them straight without chopping it up on a computer would probably end up with an average tempo of something like a 140.98 decimal value rather than 141bpm

[ZoeB]

In my experience, it's easier to make a firmware clock that's consistent (e.g. exactly 140.98 BPM instead of 141, but a very solid 140.98 that won't ever waver) than one that's exactly what you want it to be. You can improve the accuracy with a lot of work, which involves (or at least did in my case) dynamically changing a sort of fake prescaler along with the compare match. For instance, with a tempo of 120 BPM @ 24 PPQN, you want to get your clock to oscillate at 48 Hz. It's a doddle to get it to actually oscillate at exactly 47.9858 Hz (if you're running your firmware on a microprocessor running at 16 MHz with some appropriate prescaler values to choose from). The clever bit is getting it to oscillate at exactly 47.9997 Hz.

 

Of course, if you want to go the all-analogue route, then the standard method seems to be a 555 timer and a dial. Personally I'd rather know what tempo my music's at. :)

[xy_politics]

Quick question: If a lot of the tracks with bpm just shy of the full digit, so [141.98] etc, are these therefore controlled with a non-digital clock source? That puts the CIRCLONT twins and syro in the same bracket, and a non-computer bracket I'm guessing.

 

Possibly.

 

An alternative explanation would be that the project was set up in a computer, but the tempo was set to match to a specific sample that was used. We know from the SYRO gear list that a standalone recorder was used extensively, and that's how I imagine Rich has created his tracks for a long time (maybe going right back to HAB period), taking lots of recordings of various instruments and building tracks out of audio clips.

 

Doing it that way (rather than putting clips into a sampler and triggering via piano roll), you lose a certain amount of flexibility in terms of tweaking, automation, recall etc but you gain a lot by being able to edit, effect and slice audio in ways you can't really do effectively in a sampler, and it encourages variability and uniqueness within the arrangement. It very much suits the type of music Rich makes, I think.

 

Infact, back when HAB was done, it was really the only way to make music like this - I think he still makes (at least some of) his music now in pretty much the same way.

[Guest chops727]

In my experience, it's easier to make a firmware clock that's consistent (e.g. exactly 140.98 BPM instead of 141, but a very solid 140.98 that won't ever waver) than one that's exactly what you want it to be. You can improve the accuracy with a lot of work, which involves (or at least did in my case) dynamically changing a sort of fake prescaler along with the compare match. For instance, with a tempo of 120 BPM @ 24 PPQN, you want to get your clock to oscillate at 48 Hz. It's a doddle to get it to actually oscillate at exactly 47.9858 Hz (if you're running your firmware on a microprocessor running at 16 MHz with some appropriate prescaler values to choose from). The clever bit is getting it to oscillate at exactly 47.9997 Hz.

 

Of course, if you want to go the all-analogue route, then the standard method seems to be a 555 timer and a dial. Personally I'd rather know what tempo my music's at. :)

Sounds intriguing, can you explain the math you have used here?

[ZoeB]

 

In my experience, it's easier to make a firmware clock that's consistent (e.g. exactly 140.98 BPM instead of 141, but a very solid 140.98 that won't ever waver) than one that's exactly what you want it to be. You can improve the accuracy with a lot of work, which involves (or at least did in my case) dynamically changing a sort of fake prescaler along with the compare match. For instance, with a tempo of 120 BPM @ 24 PPQN, you want to get your clock to oscillate at 48 Hz. It's a doddle to get it to actually oscillate at exactly 47.9858 Hz (if you're running your firmware on a microprocessor running at 16 MHz with some appropriate prescaler values to choose from). The clever bit is getting it to oscillate at exactly 47.9997 Hz.

 

Of course, if you want to go the all-analogue route, then the standard method seems to be a 555 timer and a dial. Personally I'd rather know what tempo my music's at. :)

Sounds intriguing, can you explain the math you have used here?

 

I've probably already said too much. Wait a few months, and look at the (by then open) source code to Stepper Acid. I've commented the code in a way that hopefully adequately explains what's going on. I'm really proud of the tight timing on that device, right across the range of tempos it can play. If it doesn't make sense after studying the code for an hour or two, just e-mail me and I'll be happy to elaborate. The figures 47.9858 and 47.9997 were measured with an oscilloscope, but if memory serves I wrote a quick Python script that can infer them. Next year, ask me about commit message 2f0ae442.

[Hexahedral]

the only moment I feel like I'm hearing an FS1r on the entire album is at the very end of CIRCLONT14 (Shrymoming Mix), it sounds like he's using a very fast rolling sequence to control it, but its very quiet (barely audible on anything but headphones).

 

I'm curious though if he's using any FM synth drums at all on the album, ones that don't sound like obvious FM synthesis and that makes me think FS1R again because it has some pretty amazing drum patches that almost sound borderline acoustic but also beefy as fuck. I hear a lot of FM drum synthesis on MElodies from Mars, so it would seem not that crazy of a thing for him to do.

 

FS1r also does formant synthesis. There is a little cameo around 45 seconds in 4 bit 9d api+e+6 that sounds like it.

[marf]

if you read that post on planet mu he is pretty concerned with depth in the sound. i would be surprised if he put all those analog synths into a computer. in-the-box.. maybe he had a computer multitrack take and also did a live take to tape in the end. so he could add flourishes and computer things without compromising the entire track. i dont know. im dumb

[ZoeB]

I'm not sure how putting a sound in a computer would compromise it?

[MassfreeKid]

I'm not sure how putting a sound in a computer would compromise it?

 

That's right, it doesn't. What's a compromise is if you don't get a sound out of your computer, if it 100% originates from the computer. That's why he uses re-amping like everybody else who is concerned with the depth and 3d quality of their sounds. Some of the sounds on Syro are so 3d they're in the room with you.

[YO303]

does anyone know what he used to manipulate his voice at the beginning of Syrobonkus Mix

[fenton]

Maybe he recorded it all to tape that's why the tempos are not Exact when bounced down for mastering.

[awepittance]

 

the only moment I feel like I'm hearing an FS1r on the entire album is at the very end of CIRCLONT14 (Shrymoming Mix), it sounds like he's using a very fast rolling sequence to control it, but its very quiet (barely audible on anything but headphones).

 

I'm curious though if he's using any FM synth drums at all on the album, ones that don't sound like obvious FM synthesis and that makes me think FS1R again because it has some pretty amazing drum patches that almost sound borderline acoustic but also beefy as fuck. I hear a lot of FM drum synthesis on MElodies from Mars, so it would seem not that crazy of a thing for him to do.

 

FS1r also does formant synthesis. There is a little cameo around 45 seconds in 4 bit 9d api+e+6 that sounds like it.

 

indeed it does, the very opening crunchy 'vocoder' sound right before the bassline kicks on the opening to Xmas Evet10 could be using it.

 

I've never had any luck loading my own sounds into the FS1r for format filtering. There was a Windows program made by someone that was supposed to let you do it but I could never figure it out. Zeeedit for Windows only is a great software editor for Fs1R but It could only load pre-existing Yamaha formatted samples.

 

 

edit: holy shit I guess the guy who made Zeeedit decided to make it free finally, I already bought it but I'm stoked because it used to be restricted to one copy on one computer only

http://zeeedit.free.fr/?page=download

 

 

edit2: because of this editor I was able to make a lot of cool unfolding ambient type patches on it (i used it on almost every track of Delta Quadrant) but for getting characteristic classic FM sounds it's actually not great. the FS1r sounds way cleaner and way more high quality than it's predecessors, which is why my mind immediately went to those almost physical sounding chime sounds in Xmas Evet10 rather than any of the obvious classic FM bass sounds.

[Guest Tristan]

According to the gearlist 180db_ is made in it's entirely on one of the modulars, in a seperate studio. Quite like the idea of a big spaghetti of modules blasting out the tune

Sounds like there are some drumsamples on top. Wonder if that main kick was also a patch

[Guest tudikas]

it sounds like maybe he used a sine wave, or is that a square i'm hearing?
maybe ran something through a lowpass filter, too?

[awepittance]

wow the hoovery sounds are very alpha juno / mks 50 (think thats the associated rack module yup)

 

as for the fs1r, it kind of seems like one of the lead instruments on this album. lots of those formanty sounds working as acid lines. there's a lot of noticeable fm on this one, syro (the track) seems like it could be entirely fm for the first minute.

it says on the gear list it was only used on Xmas Evet10... am I reading it right

[marf]

im confused about how he could work on minipops for 6 years. daws confuse me. lol

so would he record all the sounds and the track in it's basic form into a daw and rearrange parts inside the computer and then reamp stuff?

any insight or thoughts on this would be appreciated