APHEX TWIN - SYRO

[Ivan Ooze]

be glad our chosen lol has not abandoned his musick and shares it with us you ungratefull maggots

i don't think it will ever be one of my favorite afx albums but still it's a bless and a beast of an album

james, more imminent shit in 2015, pls, thank you

[entropi]

Syro didn't last long around here. I'm a really big fan of richards stuff from 85-99 and most of the Tuss stuff - but the new songs IMHO are mostly OCD programming, layers and fx rather than songs that actually works without a ton of gimmicks.

 

I generally love detailed programming, but there must be some substance beyond that, too.Therefore I actually really like the cheesy and simple "180db_" - many times it doesn't have to be so complex to make a fun track that works quite well!

 

I like "XMAS_EVET10 (Thanaton3 Mix)" and the main theme in the japanese bonus track.

 

Still playing "Rushup I Bank 12" (33 rpm) and "GX1 Solo" almost daily, so unbelivable great tracks!

(and "irlite (get 0)" daily, but that's just a slightly bit off topic... :D)

[Guest WNS000]

 

I have to agree with the guys saying that Syro's mastering sucks. It is compressed and limited beyond a certain threshold where everything sounds lifeless, dull and boring - where rhythm and playfulness of dynamics disappear. Transients and peaks completely squashed - vacuum.

 

It feels as if this pure, sterile analog tracks sounded boring during production phase (which would not surprise me if it was the case) and mastering attempted to give them a bit of an excitement factor. It failed. One of the least interesting albums sound-design-wise I have heard in a long time. No dynamics, no fun.

 

It is sad, because up-tempo tracks from Drukqs were one of the best mix-wise I have ever heard in electronic music. Dynamic, yet powerful. And sound-desing was interesting too.

 

What are you listening to the album on that is giving you the impression the mastering sucks?

 

My experience is completely opposite.

 

Edit: in case my question was unclear, what is your method of playback? IE headphones, large system, small monitors etc.

 

Sounds great off my system.

 

 

I have a luck of having a sound-system worth of a brand-new-mid-class car daily at my disposal. JBL speakers and Nu-Force amplifiers. I also have AKG K701, ATH-ES7 and some Shure headphones (which are pretty bad).

 

But mainly, I have cca 8 years of producing and mixing experience and "whole-life" of critical listening experience.

 

To my ears, the mastering and level balancing of individual tracks (mainly caused by mixing during production by AFX himself) are terrible. Frequency balance is rather good, but levels are a mess. It might be intended but I don't like it. I find it boring.

 

Anyway, this is all very subjective as there clearly is many people in the world that love heavy, vacuum-like compression in music. Me too, but I still need some peaks and transients in the end. Autechre's "Pen Expers" and Untilted album are good examples of how to get the vacuum compression right, in my opinion. Syro is not.

[Hugh Mughnus]

 

 

I have to agree with the guys saying that Syro's mastering sucks. It is compressed and limited beyond a certain threshold where everything sounds lifeless, dull and boring - where rhythm and playfulness of dynamics disappear. Transients and peaks completely squashed - vacuum.

 

It feels as if this pure, sterile analog tracks sounded boring during production phase (which would not surprise me if it was the case) and mastering attempted to give them a bit of an excitement factor. It failed. One of the least interesting albums sound-design-wise I have heard in a long time. No dynamics, no fun.

 

It is sad, because up-tempo tracks from Drukqs were one of the best mix-wise I have ever heard in electronic music. Dynamic, yet powerful. And sound-desing was interesting too.

 

What are you listening to the album on that is giving you the impression the mastering sucks?

 

My experience is completely opposite.

 

Edit: in case my question was unclear, what is your method of playback? IE headphones, large system, small monitors etc.

 

Sounds great off my system.

 

 

I have a luck of having a sound-system worth of a brand-new-mid-class car daily at my disposal. JBL speakers and Nu-Force amplifiers. I also have AKG K701, ATH-ES7 and some Shure headphones (which are pretty bad).

 

But mainly, I have cca 8 years of producing and mixing experience and "whole-life" of critical listening experience.

 

To my ears, the mastering and level balancing of individual tracks (mainly caused by mixing during production by AFX himself) are terrible. Frequency balance is rather good, but levels are a mess. It might be intended but I don't like it. I find it boring.

 

Anyway, this is all very subjective as there clearly is many people in the world that love heavy, vacuum-like compression in music. Me too, but I still need some peaks and transients in the end. Autechre's "Pen Expers" and Untilted album are good examples of how to get the vacuum compression right, in my opinion. Syro is not.

 

which JBLs do you have? 4340s? I've got a nice pair myself. I'm really a fan of 1970s - mid 1980s american made speakers (cerwin, JBL) as well as tannoy and canton from europe. Not a fan of new speakers so much (besides them being out of my price range).

 

Yes this is all very subjective, I definitely hear a bit more compression than usual in his work but it's more than likely intentional. He said himself this is supposed to be his most accessible album. There is likely a correlation between the compression and him trying to make it accessible, no? Besides that, I found the palette and richness of some of the sounds he used to be far more attention worthy than the little bit of extra compression. Like the bass on 4 bit, or the cloudlike pads on papat...

 

Isn't it more palatable to a larger audience this way (bit compressed), or am I understanding it wrong?

 

cheers

 

 

edit: tl;dr, what I mean is sometimes more dynamic might bother inexperienced listeners ears, no?

Edited December 10, 2014 by StephenG

[Guest WNS000]

 

 

 

I have to agree with the guys saying that Syro's mastering sucks. It is compressed and limited beyond a certain threshold where everything sounds lifeless, dull and boring - where rhythm and playfulness of dynamics disappear. Transients and peaks completely squashed - vacuum.

 

It feels as if this pure, sterile analog tracks sounded boring during production phase (which would not surprise me if it was the case) and mastering attempted to give them a bit of an excitement factor. It failed. One of the least interesting albums sound-design-wise I have heard in a long time. No dynamics, no fun.

 

It is sad, because up-tempo tracks from Drukqs were one of the best mix-wise I have ever heard in electronic music. Dynamic, yet powerful. And sound-desing was interesting too.

 

What are you listening to the album on that is giving you the impression the mastering sucks?

 

My experience is completely opposite.

 

Edit: in case my question was unclear, what is your method of playback? IE headphones, large system, small monitors etc.

 

Sounds great off my system.

 

 

I have a luck of having a sound-system worth of a brand-new-mid-class car daily at my disposal. JBL speakers and Nu-Force amplifiers. I also have AKG K701, ATH-ES7 and some Shure headphones (which are pretty bad).

 

But mainly, I have cca 8 years of producing and mixing experience and "whole-life" of critical listening experience.

 

To my ears, the mastering and level balancing of individual tracks (mainly caused by mixing during production by AFX himself) are terrible. Frequency balance is rather good, but levels are a mess. It might be intended but I don't like it. I find it boring.

 

Anyway, this is all very subjective as there clearly is many people in the world that love heavy, vacuum-like compression in music. Me too, but I still need some peaks and transients in the end. Autechre's "Pen Expers" and Untilted album are good examples of how to get the vacuum compression right, in my opinion. Syro is not.

 

which JBLs do you have? 4340s? I've got a nice pair myself. I'm really a fan of 1970s - mid 1980s american made speakers (cerwin, JBL) as well as tannoy and canton from europe. Not a fan of new speakers so much (besides them being out of my price range).

 

Yes this is all very subjective, I definitely hear a bit more compression than usual in his work but it's more than likely intentional. He said himself this is supposed to be his most accessible album. There is likely a correlation between the compression and him trying to make it accessible, no?

 

Isn't it more palatable to a larger audience this way, or am I understanding it wrong.

 

cheers

 

 

The JBLs are "Ti 10K".

 

The compression can be a part of an accessible sound. Less dynamic == less variation == less challenge for a listener. But it can also mean not enough swing in a rhythm, not enough or no gradation and therefore no emotions.

 

The main problem of Syro aren't the peaks, though. The level balancing of individual tracks is the main culprit. It sounds so amateurish sound-wise that I honestly thought AFX was taking a piss. To me, there is a fine line between deliberately loose, DIY production and clearly amateurish or rushed, or not very well thought-out production. Together with the sterile, analogue 80's sound-design aesthetics and arpeggio compositions, this record does not do it for me.

 

Also, AFX does his best when he's brutal and aggressive, in my opinion. I have never really enjoyed his "tender" tracks or his "jokes" (the Milkman was funny, but the composition was rather weak).

 

EDIT: Also, the compression means it can be played loud. Not good for a critical listener or enthusiast but obviously great for dancing in a club. Compression also means "wow-effect" but on the other hand can mean "less longevity".

Edited December 10, 2014 by Jev

[Mag]

vinyl and cd have different mastering, but i suppose you know that?

 

considering the way he recorded evrything (assuming its true) - shitload of old synths to 2 tracks and all that stuff, maybe its best takes out there, and it was hard to do postproduction correctly. just thinking out loud

[Hugh Mughnus]

edit: @jev

 

very nice. I have a pair of 240ti as well which I love (not nearly as nice as yours of course). They did an awesome job with the titanium tweeters.

 

Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like my understanding is correct. The difference is I guess that I enjoy less of a challenge sometimes! Aphex easy listening, if you will.

Edited December 10, 2014 by StephenG

[Guest WNS000]

vinyl and cd have different mastering, but i suppose you know that?

 

considering the way he recorded evrything (assuming its true) - shitload of old synths to 2 tracks and all that stuff, maybe its best takes out there, and it was hard to do postproduction correctly. just thinking out loud

 

Yes, you might be right with this. If he recorded an already compressed sound then there is a limit in what you can do with it. On the other hand, transient designers could improve some of the drum samples on Syro drastically.

 

I have not heard the vinyl. Someone care to record a track from the vinyl and upload a sample of it somewhere?

 

edit: @jev

 

very nice. I have a pair of 240ti as well which I love (not nearly as nice as yours of course). They did an awesome job with the titanium tweeters.

 

Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like my understanding is correct. The difference is I guess that I enjoy less of a challenge sometimes! Aphex easy listening, if you will.

 

The JBLs sounds beautiful. They are not mine, however. They are of my father who was waiting (and saving) a significant part of his life to get them. So I am very lucky to have them at my disposal.

 

Yes, Syro is definitely easy listening.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Jev

[may be rude]

i think i'd say it's my favorite aphex album, including all the monickers. unless you consider analord one huge album.

Edited December 10, 2014 by very honest

[Guest LoveRhino]

Yep. Not sure what the issue is with mastering. It sounds great on vinyl on my old Tannoys, smooth from MP3 on my Genelec 8030As, great on my $10 car speakers, fantastic on my Bose noise cancelling headphones, great on my Tivoli kitchen stereo and crappy Dick Smith portable speakers. No mastering issues to my ears.

 

Been heavily fling in love with Analord series too. There are tracks on 11 that sound like Syro test beds. Lovely crunchy goodness.

[mr3]

As far as the actual signal on cdda at least, most of the tracks are amp'd way up unfortunately. Seeing how much was a surprise, the whole thing is still sounding steadily better (starting from 'decent') to me listening-wise this many weeks later, something no album's ever done to this extent for me. What's weird is minipops is the only one with actual cutoffs from what I can tell (tons, through most of the song)...almost makes me wonder if it was intentional. The rest comes across just-as-designed and works like aces for me right now, but ya, subjective.

[chim]

You don't need a particularly fancy set of speakers to tell they kind of botched the mastering.

 

Speaking as someone who doesn't mind "hot" mixes, it doesn't sound overcompressed but it's somewhat badly mixed, there is a lot of mud and problem frequencies in the low-mid range on most tracks, the buried lo-fi drum sounds mainly contribute to the lifeless feeling. It must have been difficult to work with the original audio which was probably pretty noisy.

[Guest trananhhung]

Wire's best record of the year.

 

Who's Richard Dawson?

[cebec]

[Guest trananhhung]

http://www.richarddawson.net

[cebec]

 

http://www.richarddawson.net

 

[jchgf]

I don't think RDJ could churn out a crisp, clean, noiseless mix/master to save his life, especially with his monster setup. It was one of his idiosyncracies when he was making simpler tracks full of reverb and distortion in the 90's. I don't like the compression on Syro either, but the weird EQ gives it a kind of timeless / Raymond Scott quality.

[Zephyr_Nova]

The mixing/mastering on this album actually made me feel self-conscious about my own in a way most electronic albums don't, so I'm not sure what you guys are on about... aside from the noise thing, which comes with the analogue synth territory. Some of those constant high pitch hums could have no doubt been EQed out quite easily if he really cared about them. Everything just sounds so much bigger compared with most electronic albums. Perhaps this is a bad thing on club PAs, but through my studio mons and headphones it sounds ultralush. Any nitpicks I have about Syro are more to do with how some tracks are arranged. I'd be curious to hear more of the early versions.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Zephyr_Nova

[Zephyr_Nova]

I think the above post contains my personal record for most edits (5!)

[Guest WNS000]

You don't need a particularly fancy set of speakers to tell they kind of botched the mastering.

 

Speaking as someone who doesn't mind "hot" mixes, it doesn't sound overcompressed but it's somewhat badly mixed, there is a lot of mud and problem frequencies in the low-mid range on most tracks, the buried lo-fi drum sounds mainly contribute to the lifeless feeling. It must have been difficult to work with the original audio which was probably pretty noisy.

 

Good points. The "quality" of the mix is pretty evident even on cheap audio systems. But I think it is over compressed. Mainly the rhythmic parts of the tracks. The drums does not deliver. Transients and peaks missing. No swing.

 

EDIT: Anyway, I agree that the mixes themselves are more of a culprit than the mastering.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Jev

[Guest WNS000]

But I think it was all deliberate by Richard. This is simply not an album for me. Will wait for the next time for some new Cymru Beats.

[Vaaler9]

But I think it was all deliberate by Richard. This is simply not an album for me. Will wait for the next time for some new Cymru Beats.

I'm not sure if it will ever happen at this point but I would love to hear some new very digital productions. I sort of miss his hyperactive/hyper-creative "computer music" days.

[Mag]

 

Good points. The "quality" of the mix is pretty evident even on cheap audio systems. But I think it is over compressed. Mainly the rhythmic parts of the tracks. The drums does not deliver. Transients and peaks missing. No swing.

 

EDIT: Anyway, I agree that the mixes themselves are more of a culprit than the mastering.

 

 

try vinyl! sounds different, mastered by different guy. more oldschool smooth and analoug to my taste, no mashed potatoes snares

rules deny links so grab it somewhere or buy

[auxien]

I've gotta say, after the first couple weeks, I have listened to this WAY less than I'd have ever thought. Even after release, I wasn't entirely taken by it, but I definitely enjoyed it. If you'd asked me the first week or two, I'd have said that it was definitely a contender for record of the year. A couple months later, and I haven't touched it in weeks. Not sure why, but I wonder if there's many others with similar feelings.

[hello spiral]

No.4 album of the year in The Guardian today