eugene Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 @modey i don't understand, what exactly are you replying to? i said that in such an environment a request of the type louie made wouldn't be considered offensive or a part of some harassment. and you're bringing up free fucking and, what a quick James Deen google reveals, rape allegations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modey Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 @modey i don't understand, what exactly are you replying to? i said that in such an environment a request of the type louie made wouldn't be considered offensive or a part of some harassment. and you're bringing up free fucking and, what a quick James Deen google reveals, rape allegations. sorry, went off track a bit there. My point is that something like that absolutely wouldn't be ok even in porn production, outside of allocated filming times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candiru Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 He really stepped in it in such a dumb way. I get the impression there were a lot of conflicting ideas on how to handle the situation among other comics who’s careers are associated with his. This includes female comics. I bet he had his come to Jesus moment a while ago and people were sort of willing to forgive him. But no one is untouchable and it has to be that way if you want to make a meaningful change when it comes to this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcofribas Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 @ eugene Of course consent and context is important but does it not seem that in the examples given we are not in fact seeing mutually pleasurable acts of consensual sex in a comfortable environment? Isn’t it the case that the women who are talking about this are doing so bc the situation was uncomfortable and made them feel bad? Why do we need more granular detail about the nature of prior flirtation and shit? It seems to me perfectly fucking obvious that if you want to jack your fucking dick in front of some women sitting in your hotel room in their winter coats that you’d be able to see if they were into it or not pretty easily. If you’re not sure, don’t do it. Ask your wife. Or pay a sex worker. It seems to me reasonable to suspect that the very lack of consent, the surprise and disgust and discomfort, was probably part of what got him off in the first place. The point about the workplace isn’t as simple as you’re making it out to be. Sure, comedy is a profession that takes place outside of normie conservative corporate culture and people hang out in clubs and drink and do drugs and shit. But that does not mean women should be cool with being disrespected and treated like shit. The thing is, going up to a woman with whom you do not have a sexual rapport and who you only know professionally and asking if it’s cool if you stroke your naked dick at them...well, that actually isn’t cool at all. It’s creepy, it’s gross, it’s rude as hell, and it’s actually really fucking humiliating to be treated like a piece of living pornography. And since he did it and he’s this cool and smart comedian now they might be inclined to suspect that any man might do this shit to them too.And since he’s a comedian and they’re comedians, even if the women decline and go separate ways now they’ve got to always be on guard when he’s around, wondering if he’s going to bust out his little sean n rob when they’re hanging out. Or worried that if they avoid him they’ll miss out on opportunities to meet people who can help them advance in their career. Or if they say no he’ll ruin their reputations behind their backs. Which is precisely what he fucking did, he went on talk radio and gave interviews in papers and magazines and basically called them liars. I’m not at all sure why you think the missing link here is all the details about their flirting and shit. We’re not talking about a courtroom or a process of scientific verification, we’re talking about whether this behavior should be acceptable in a professional community like comedy. In my opinion, it’s obvious it should not be. Just bc he doesn’t he doesn’t have a normie boss breathing down his neck doesn’t mean he should treat women like shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJW Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Judge: ”There is only one way to settle this silly dispute, ladies, you’ve seen his tallywhacker, now show him your kitty kats. Good. Now, young man, what have you learned from all this business? Louie, hands thrust into pockets, staring guiltily down, right foot twirling nervously: ”Not to run around annoying the ladies with my tallywhacker” Judge: That’s right! And why not?” Louie: ”Because they don’t like my tallywhacker and it upsets them.” Judge: ”Quite right.” No matter how fun it may be, or how proud your are of said tallywhacker, it is not to be paraded around in that fashion. Now, ladies. What have you learned from all this?” Ladies: arms folded, pouting, giving Louie the stink eye. Judge: eyebrows furrow ”…Ladies?” Ladies: all roll their eyes ”Not to overreact, and it's nasty to be vindictive” Judge: ”Quite so, and why can it be a bad idea to overreact?” Ladies: ”Because it might put someone in more trouble than they deserve.” Judge: ”Bravo! Now shake hands and let’s get you all back to making some fucking comedy shows already. HOORAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Or if they say no he’ll ruin their reputations behind their backs. Which is precisely what he fucking did when did this happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcofribas Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Or if they say no he’ll ruin their reputations behind their backs. Which is precisely what he fucking did when did this happen? at the very least it happened every time he publicly insisted the rumors were lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubin Farr Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 For a while I thought he was great, and he had some explorations of narcissism, lack of gratitude, etc. that were interesting, at least at the time. Then I watched the season of his show centered on him convincing his platonic friend to be his girlfriend, and I figured he was changing his direction, and I cooled on him. It wasn't like "this is creepy and weird" (although it kind of was, in retrospect), it didn't line up quite right for me and it was neither insightful nor entertaining, just felt indulgent in an empty way and I lost interest. bummer blueberries. i couldn't after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KovalainenFanBoy Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Judge: ”There is only one way to settle this silly dispute, ladies, you’ve seen his tallywhacker, now show him your kitty kats. Good. Now, young man, what have you learned from all this business? Louie, hands thrust into pockets, staring guiltily down, right foot twirling nervously: ”Not to run around annoying the ladies with my tallywhacker” Judge: That’s right! And why not?” Louie: ”Because they don’t like my tallywhacker and it upsets them.” Judge: ”Quite right.” No matter how fun it may be, or how proud your are of said tallywhacker, it is not to be paraded around in that fashion. Now, ladies. What have you learned from all this?” Ladies: arms folded, pouting, giving Louie the stink eye. Judge: eyebrows furrow ”…Ladies?” Ladies: all roll their eyes ”Not to overreact, and it's nasty to be vindictive” Judge: ”Quite so, and why can it be a bad idea to overreact?” Ladies: ”Because it might put someone in more trouble than they deserve.” Judge: ”Bravo! Now shake hands and let’s get you all back to making some fucking comedy shows already. HOORAY! don't quit your day job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 @alco there are two instances where he actually did it in front of women. one of those is with the that dana and julia duo in hotel who laughed at him throughout until he came and then went away. so how exactly should he have interpreted their laughter at him during the act? the article says that they were "screaming and laughing in shock" but wth does it even mean? how can you laugh in shock? to me it seems more like a reaction that you'd see in strip clubs for women than an evidence of some kind of mental damage and utter discomfort. the other case is of straight up consent on the side of the anonymous woman. but then after about 20 years later claimed that the culture made her say yes. in this case it's the accusers of louis that are going into granular details and claim that he inadvertently forced her due to his position of power, that she had no choice but to say yes and all that, or in other words turning her into an idiot incapable of making a rational decision and standing by it. in his statement after the nyt piece louis claimed that at that time he didn't see this as something wrong because he always asked first, and only later became aware of the issue of power dynamics. and it looks like it's the same thing with her. as for other two cases, i don't even understand why they got into the nyt article at all, as louis closed the matter in private. he apologized to those two women long BEFORE the rumors about their specific cases got into the public circulation with this nyt article. he went on talk radio and gave interviews in papers and magazines and basically called them liars none of that really happened, i don't understand where are you getting this from. according to this timeline of louis' masturbation saga (lol) there are only two instances of him ever reacting and dismissing the rumour gawker spread about a comedian actually FORCING women to watch him masturbate and preventing them from leaving. and that indeed never happened if you believe the times article. should he have gone into details in public about the fact that he never forced anyone, but did in fact masturbate a couple of times before the women? i really don't think so, why is it a moral obligation to tell the whole world about the consensual sex acts you did in private? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amen Warrior Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Louis should do what I do and save all his sexual aggression for when the lights go out at an autechre gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Member Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 He should've just gotten himself a wolf mask, but it's too late now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candiru Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Garfield masks work the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Member Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 "Bill Murray is perv" no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlisuite Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 wondering if he’s going to bust out his little sean n rob when they’re hanging out. Alco you sneaky bastard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caze Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Or if they say no he’ll ruin their reputations behind their backs. Which is precisely what he fucking did when did this happen? at the very least it happened every time he publicly insisted the rumors were lies. he actually said very very little about it. he certainly didn't call anyone a liar. the only time he commented about it there were only rumours, no actual on-the-record allegations, and he just said he didn't want to talk about rumours basically. his agent apparently did more behind the scenes to shut the rumours down, but he denies he went out of his way to intimidate anyone or ruin their careers or anything (and afaik there's no evidence any of that happened). I'm with you on the rest though, what he did was gross and completely out of order (though not in the same realm of offences as Weinstein, Cosby or even Spacey). The reaction has been more than a bit OOT though (as long as the NYT story is the sum total of his transgressions), he should do a period of repentance where he feels like shit for a while, then starts making funny shit again. People are free to ignore his output, or not work with him, if he continues to gross them out, but no reason to call for him to be blacklisted from the entire industry, or for all his work to be removed from streaming services, etc. (which affects everyone else who worked on those projects, not just him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcofribas Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 @ eugene you do you, man. if you can’t manage to perceive anything wrong with this dude’s behavior i’m obv not going to convince you. it should be worth noting that louis himself admitted he knew he was wrong at the time in one of his apologies, he didn’t later “become aware of the issue of power dynamics” (lmao). he said “I remember thinking what a repulsive person I was being by responding the way that I did.” to me this seems to pretty illuminating. first off the passive voice is very common in these kinds of apologies (he was “responding” badly; in his recent public announcement he “misread,” etc) but more specific to louis is the whole pathology of being a bad, gross man who can’t help but do something shameful and pathetic, particularly with respect to sex. in this light I think you have to do exactly the kind of tiresome acrobatics eugene is doing in order to see this as just some totally fine consensual act. it seems way more likely that he wanted those women to feel uncomfortable in so far as it would feed his sense of shame and pathetic transgression. it’s all over his comedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcofribas Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 @ caze yeah, maybe I shouldn’t double down on the denials necessarily. hard to say. on the one hand, to the broader public they were just rumors and for several good reasons his reaction would be normal but on the other hand within the more insular comedy environment they were more specific allegations tied to experiences he knew were true and in this respect his public denials make those women look foolish and afaik would make them feel all the more alienated and frustrated. agree with you on the reaction, especially your point on other working people being tied to those projects that have been shut down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 @ eugene you do you, man. if you can’t manage to perceive anything wrong with this dude’s behavior i’m obv not going to convince you. it should be worth noting that louis himself admitted he knew he was wrong at the time in one of his apologies, he didn’t later “become aware of the issue of power dynamics” (lmao). he said “I remember thinking what a repulsive person I was being by responding the way that I did.” to me this seems to pretty illuminating. first off the passive voice is very common in these kinds of apologies (he was “responding” badly; in his recent public announcement he “misread,” etc) but more specific to louis is the whole pathology of being a bad, gross man who can’t help but do something shameful and pathetic, particularly with respect to sex. in this light I think you have to do exactly the kind of tiresome acrobatics eugene is doing in order to see this as just some totally fine consensual act. it seems way more likely that he wanted those women to feel uncomfortable in so far as it would feed his sense of shame and pathetic transgression. it’s all over his comedy. you're mixing two different incidents together, the one he claimed he was repulsive at was the phone call incident. power dynamics had nothing to do with that. also, the word "misread" doesn't appear in his public statement either. i don't think what he did was totally ok, he's not stupid, he should have been aware that asking such a thing will in most cases create awkward vibes and discomfort and make subsequent interactions with those women pretty weird. but then again we know close to nothing about what led to this and whether there was any flirtation prior to that or anything of the kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caze Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 "misread" comes from the personal apology he made to one of the women, the one who turned him down and so he didn't do anything. he said to her that he 'used to misread people back then' (a bit of an understatement, lol). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcofribas Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 my bad about the “misread” bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcofribas Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 my bad about the “misread” bit I thought this goes without saying but “misread” is a common excuse in these kinds of incidents. see sam kriss’ public apology for a recent, less famous example. love too can’t read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caze Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 see sam kriss’ public apology for a recent, less famous example. this guy seems like a real charmer: https://pastebin.com/paWQUzCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr_Nova Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 wondering if he’s going to bust out his little sean n rob when they’re hanging out. Alco you sneaky bastard Autech're? He barely knew 're. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echolalia Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Louis should do what I do and save all his sexual aggression for when the lights go out at an autechre gig. Ive heard about smiling men on a darkened dancefloor before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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