the watmm GAS thread

[Flutternozzle]

1 hour ago, Bubba69 said:

Ever since hearing aphex describe how he made Fenix Funk 5…

Where?

[Bubba69]

22 hours ago, Flutternozzle said:

Where?

I think it was maybe the noizelab interview or one of those. He talked about how luke vibert didn't believe him that it wasn't a vocoder. Yeah thats where it was https://web.archive.org/web/20141103131334/http://noyzelab.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/syrobonkers-part1.html

He also posted the earlier version of it.

[TubularCorporation]

Good interview, but also funny that his writing style is a lot more like My Immortal than I expected.

[Bubba69]

It's been a while since I looked at better sequencing workflows. I have been using my octatrack for a while but feeling a little uninspired on the midi/melody side of it. I've got bitwig studio but I think I want to stick to hardware sequencing for midi, I don't really like the piano roll in bitwig. I do love it for mixing and sound design stuff though. The polyend play seems cool and might even replace the sampler part of the octatrack for me, but the midi sequencing seems like it might be kind of limited and it doesn't do CV. The Hapax seems like a powerhouse, but I'm not 100% sure thats what I want or need. The Oxi one also seems like a powerhouse as well. The generative and scale stuff doesn't matter as much to me as having a really solid core workflow that doesn't get in my way. I want to be able to very quickly build up really intricate and constantly copy/paste/evolving and arranging things, without feeling constrained by pages, parts, step resolution.

I'm probably going to go through and read the manuals on some of these but I'm curious what others have been getting into

[TubularCorporation]

Seems like I keep deliberately making my sequencing workflows worse.  This month I'm getting set up to sequence on an Atari ST that's on the opposite side of the room from my master keyboard because it was the only place I could fit a desk for it.

 

EDIT: as far as good sequencing I've still never found anything that beats the MPC2000xl for pattern based linear sequencing, and the MIDIbox SEQ for step sequencing.  Those are the two I actually use all the time.

Edited August 1, 2023 by TubularCorporation

[dcom]

18 hours ago, Bubba69 said:

I'm probably going to go through and read the manuals on some of these but I'm curious what others have been getting into

I've collected way more hardware sequencers than I need because there's usually no way to try out something unless you buy it. I've currently got (in order of acquisition) Squarp Pyramid MK3, Torso T-1, Twisted Electrons Crazy8 + Crazy8 Beats, Pioneer Toraiz Squid, and OXI One. I've also got a Polyend Tracker, which can be used as an 8-track monophonic sequencer. There are sequencers in many of my other devices, like the 1010music Blackbox.

I'd still like to try out Synthstrom Deluge, Squarp Hapax, Polyend Play, and of course a Sequentix Cirklon, but high-end means high price. Some more exotic ones are Spektro Audio's NGEN, and Sixty Four Pixels' Noodlebox. There are plenty of odd-and-not eurorack sequencers out ther, but I'm most probably not going that way. I'll maybe get an SQ-64 to try out at some point.

 

[Taupe Beats]

15 minutes ago, dcom said:

I've collected way more hardware sequencers than I need because there's usually no way to try out something unless you buy it. I've currently got (in order of acquisition) Squarp Pyramid MK3, Torso T-1, Twisted Electrons Crazy8 + Crazy8 Beats, Pioneer Toraiz Squid, and OXI One. I've also got a Polyend Tracker, which can be used as an 8-track monophonic sequencer. There are sequencers in many of my other devices, like the 1010music Blackbox.

I'd still like to try out Synthstrom Deluge, Squarp Hapax, Polyend Play, and of course a Sequentix Cirklon, but high-end means high price. Some more exotic ones are Spektro Audio's NGEN, and Sixty Four Pixels' Noodlebox. There are plenty of odd-and-not eurorack sequencers out ther, but I'm most probably not going that way. I'll maybe get an SQ-64 to try out at some point.

 

Probably gonna sound like a dick here but you need to hear this either way. Slow down. No possible way you've maxed the sequencers you've listed as currently owned. Focus on that first. At my height I owned maybe half as many hardware sequencers. Including the Squarp Pyramid. Years later and I *still* don't max the Squarp when I use it solo. 

Why I feel strongly enough to say this, is if you get full GAS with sequencers, you'll get impatient and miss a ton of potential functionality. Both you and the manufacture ultimately lose at that point. It's one thing to learn a functionality and determine it's not helpful to you. But to skip over learning something before moving on to the next thing isn't worth it for hardware.

A starting suggestion:  figure out the overlap in the sequencers you currently have. What are the similarities/quirks between the Squarp and the Torso for euclidian stuff. What does the Oxi do that the others don't, etc.

[Bubba69]

29 minutes ago, dcom said:

I've collected way more hardware sequencers than I need because there's usually no way to try out something unless you buy it. I've currently got (in order of acquisition) Squarp Pyramid MK3, Torso T-1, Twisted Electrons Crazy8 + Crazy8 Beats, Pioneer Toraiz Squid, and OXI One. I've also got a Polyend Tracker, which can be used as an 8-track monophonic sequencer. There are sequencers in many of my other devices, like the 1010music Blackbox.

I'd still like to try out Synthstrom Deluge, Squarp Hapax, Polyend Play, and of course a Sequentix Cirklon, but high-end means high price. Some more exotic ones are Spektro Audio's NGEN, and Sixty Four Pixels' Noodlebox. There are plenty of odd-and-not eurorack sequencers out ther, but I'm most probably not going that way. I'll maybe get an SQ-64 to try out at some point.

 

What do you like working with the most? Any of those feel like the ones you want to keep? I'm sort of thinking of just getting a hapax and seeing what I gel with the workflow.

[dcom]

50 minutes ago, Taupe Beats said:

A starting suggestion:  figure out the overlap in the sequencers you currently have. Wyhat are the similarities/quirks between the Squarp and the Torso for euclidian stuff. What does the Oxi do that the others don't, etc.

That's what I'm doing, like I wrote the problem is that reading manuals, watching tutorial videos, and pondering my orb doesn't give me what getting hands on with the kit does. It's also about the workflow, the affordances, ease of use, muscle memory even - I come from an Amiga tracker background, via Music-X as a MIDI sequencer, then there was a long hiatus where I concentrated on DJing, then got back to making music with Fruityloops (w/ lifetime upgrades I now have FL Studio upgraded to the max), then a hiatus again, and now I'm doing DAWless. I know what I'm doing, I really need to get my hands on the kit and work them to really know what I'll keep, it's not an abstract academic exercise.

40 minutes ago, Bubba69 said:

What do you like working with the most?

I think OXI One is the one (pun intented), it has the best balance of complexity, features, UI/UX, and workflow compared to the others; I also like the immediacy and speed of working with the Torso T-1. Then again, I love to have alternatives, and completely disrupt my ways of doing things, so I will probably keep what I've hoarded; although I listed things I'd still like to try, it doesn't mean that I will.

Edited August 1, 2023 by dcom

[Bubba69]

2 hours ago, dcom said:

That's what I'm doing, like I wrote the problem is that reading manuals, watching tutorial videos, and pondering my orb doesn't give me what getting hands on with the kit does. It's also about the workflow, the affordances, ease of use, muscle memory even - I come from an Amiga tracker background, via Music-X as a MIDI sequencer, then there was a long hiatus where I concentrated on DJing, then got back to making music with Fruityloops (w/ lifetime upgrades I now have FL Studio upgraded to the max), then a hiatus again, and now I'm doing DAWless. I know what I'm doing, I really need to get my hands on the kit and work them to really know what I'll keep, it's not an abstract academic exercise.

I think OXI One is the one (pun intented), it has the best balance of complexity, features, UI/UX, and workflow compared to the others; I also like the immediacy and speed of working with the Torso T-1. Then again, I love to have alternatives, and completely disrupt my ways of doing things, so I will probably keep what I've hoarded; although I listed things I'd still like to try, it doesn't mean that I will.

Do you happen to to do a lot of modular? Seems like the oxi is good for cv connectivity.

[auxien]

i've learned more and more that at least for me, it's not about trying to do exactly what you want to do (i need a sequencer that does x, y, z, q, r, s, t, and also a, b, c, d, and e! anything less is useless!) but just finding something that does what it does well. it needs to be consistent and powerful enough to handle a bare minimum, but beyond that, creativity and wonder is often tied directly to the 'limits' in front of me.

i've got Ableton (using a variety of stock + 3rd party sequencing devices) and a Hapax and use both for sequencing their respective realms, and the most interesting stuff (to my ears at least) is when i've got very little programmed/designed/planned. usually some little thing in the jamming/experimenting/writing process turned into some magic that triggered some other idea and lead to a track.

[dcom]

8 hours ago, Bubba69 said:

Do you happen to to do a lot of modular? Seems like the oxi is good for cv connectivity.

I don't, but I do have a bunch of semimodulars I put into cases to reduce the number of wall warts, so I added a few utilities as well. I've been thinking of getting an OXI Pipe to minimise patch cable mess, and I'll probably remove the Twisted Electrons Crazy8 Beats from the case and replace it with something else, haven't yet thought about it too much.

Edited August 2, 2023 by dcom

[Bubba69]

I feel like thats sort of the direction I'm heading in. Been using a set of gear for years, mostly focused around the octatrack, I feel like I finally got pretty good at doing what I wanted to do with it. I really want to get back to the kind of sequencing I used to do via the energyXT piano roll and have struggled with some workflow things after completing my last album. I'm really excited by some of the mixing techniques I've been employing ITB but I don't like sequencing there still. One thing I don't like about working with the octatrack is that midi sequences are tied pretty closely to the drum sequences/samples, and then the patterns are synced with the a4 and those are also tied 1-1, I use the a4 for cv sequencing. Additionally, I have to tie two patterns together to get longer than four bar loops, which I often want (it's fine it's just yet another thing to keep track of and remember to hold pattern and press two buttons instead of one). What appeals to me about the Hapax, for example, is being able to treat it as an external machine that I can trigger drum break loops from separately from a longer melodic structure, seems the patterns can be quite long and I can send program changes quite easily within a track. Having more centralized sequencer for melodies and tying everything together feels like the right move for me to achieve the kind of creative bliss I yearn for.

 

Oh yeah but back to my original point, I like the idea of semi modulars in cases. I may also go down that route especially if I pick up a hapax.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Bubba69

[Stock]

I am suddenly having a very, very hard crisis of GAS for the Polyend Tracker Mini. I have been using the Tracker as my studio's brain for 2 years now and can't get tired of it. The portability of the Tracker Mini would be great for making music without feeling the guilt of leaving the missus alone on the couch. I am afraid I might miss the Tracker later on, but it is awfully tempting.

(will probably report again in 2 weeks after receiving my paycheck lol)

[Bubba69]

26 minutes ago, Stock said:

I am suddenly having a very, very hard crisis of GAS for the Polyend Tracker Mini. I have been using the Tracker as my studio's brain for 2 years now and can't get tired of it. The portability of the Tracker Mini would be great for making music without feeling the guilt of leaving the missus alone on the couch. I am afraid I might miss the Tracker later on, but it is awfully tempting.

(will probably report again in 2 weeks after receiving my paycheck lol)

Wanna buy my m8?

[Stock]

22 minutes ago, Bubba69 said:

Wanna buy my m8?

Thanks for the offer but I don't think it's up my alley!

However if you want to buy a nice condition 2nd hand Tracker ...

[Bubba69]

I'm thinking about retiring my analog four, as cool as it's sequencer is.

I was looking at the melbourne instruments nina since they seem to be $600 off msrp in a lot of shops right now, they seem to be very cool and have a morphing function, and 4 part multi-timbral with individual outs if you want so in some ways similar to the a4 but just a much cooler powerhouse of a synth. That unfortunately leads to another quagmire, I ran out of inputs on my audio interface (focusrite 18i8). One of the nicest thing about elektron is being able to use overbridge to get audio data into your daw without messing with audio drivers. How do people deal with so many instruments, I guess I need some kind of ADAT pre-amp to add more channels?

[auxien]

6 minutes ago, Bubba69 said:

I'm thinking about retiring my analog four, as cool as it's sequencer is.

i've been saying i was going to do the same for the past....two years? barely used it. it's obv very good but it's not something that i've found incorporating well in the tunes i've been making in the last couple years, despite a few attempts. honestly just need to spend some time making some new patches probably, but the Elektron interface of the Mk1 blackboxes are just a pain for trying to program in a complex synth patch. works great for the Rytm imo, but for synth sounds i prefer others...

don't think i've looked at the Nina, is that a modular?

[Bubba69]

17 minutes ago, auxien said:

i've been saying i was going to do the same for the past....two years? barely used it. it's obv very good but it's not something that i've found incorporating well in the tunes i've been making in the last couple years, despite a few attempts. honestly just need to spend some time making some new patches probably, but the Elektron interface of the Mk1 blackboxes are just a pain for trying to program in a complex synth patch. works great for the Rytm imo, but for synth sounds i prefer others...

don't think i've looked at the Nina, is that a modular?

No it's a crazy fixed arch synth but is has a good mod matrix. It is a poly analog desktop synth that has mechanical keyboard switches and motorized faders, 4 layers, 12 voices, 4 outputs, MPE support. 2 VCOs and a wavetable osc. It's only got a single moog-style lowpass VCF though, so somewhat limited there. Stupidly expensive, I probably shouldn't buy one.

[auxien]

2 hours ago, Bubba69 said:

No it's a crazy fixed arch synth but is has a good mod matrix. It is a poly analog desktop synth that has mechanical keyboard switches and motorized faders, 4 layers, 12 voices, 4 outputs, MPE support. 2 VCOs and a wavetable osc. It's only got a single moog-style lowpass VCF though, so somewhat limited there. Stupidly expensive, I probably shouldn't buy one.

oh the one that moves the knobs! yeah the interface looks pretty good, love those big buttons too. haven't looked into it cause i know it's fuckin expensive ($3k ain't insane but it's sure damned up there) but it does seem to make some nice sounds....watching the Loopop video on it rn, not bad. morphing is cool. sounds awfully surgical, perhaps a touch sterile? maybe just needs to get deeper than he's going to get richer sounds tho. Loopop is great at info/explanation but he's not making great patches/sounds very often. first impressions are it's a very DAW-like hardware synth, for better or worse.

[Bubba69]

yeah tbh it's probably foolish and not what I want or need right now, more than I paid for my OB6. If I'm going to pay that much, should consider a Waldorf kyra (or m or iridium), or get into eurorack, or get a microwave xt, or a tooro (this might be the ticket), or a million other things.

[auxien]

oh yeah the Waldorf M sounds amazing, but fucker's pretty weird....i've kept up with pretty much the entire Gearspace thread (240+ pages now) and there's a ton of stuff that's just....strange. the main developer Vladi has been discussing and updating the firmware regularly, and it seems a little haphazard. i don't own one so i'm not experienced with it obv but from shit that it's designed to do and then bugs reported, it seems to give off almost amateur vibes. but that said, SO much of what i've heard out of it is just truly unique and super weird. 

Kyra and Iridium seem alright but both give me a bit of rompler vibes (not knocking them, def more to them than that but still).

[Taupe Beats]

14 hours ago, Bubba69 said:

No it's a crazy fixed arch synth but is has a good mod matrix. It is a poly analog desktop synth that has mechanical keyboard switches and motorized faders, 4 layers, 12 voices, 4 outputs, MPE support. 2 VCOs and a wavetable osc. It's only got a single moog-style lowpass VCF though, so somewhat limited there. Stupidly expensive, I probably shouldn't buy one.

It looked cool in the demos but sounded meh. Any synths got its sweet spots though so ymmv.

Also, between that and the Motor synth, I'm curious about lifespans. I know the NINA's using drone engines for the knob mods, and I think the Motor synth is using them for the oscillator discs. How long will those last before they start going out? Is it comparable to components in existing synths over the last few decades? If so, that's pretty cool.

[TubularCorporation]

1 hour ago, Taupe Beats said:

It looked cool in the demos but sounded meh. Any synths got its sweet spots though so ymmv.

Also, between that and the Motor synth, I'm curious about lifespans. I know the NINA's using drone engines for the knob mods, and I think the Motor synth is using them for the oscillator discs. How long will those last before they start going out? Is it comparable to components in existing synths over the last few decades? If so, that's pretty cool.

So they're using brushless DC motors as encoders like this? And simultaneously using them for mechaical feedback (i.e. turning knobs to match preset values)?  That's a good (expesive) idea, and I'd expect the lifespan of any half-decent brushless motor would be WAY beyond even a high quality pot or encoder.

 

EDIT: wrong link

Edited August 21, 2023 by TubularCorporation

[Bubba69]

Warning, totally longer than intended rambling rant about my setup below, I started typing and couldn't stop. No need to read this:

 

I've come to the conclusion I'm going to sell my A4 and model d and sequence plugins instead for a while until I decide I actually think I want to treat myself to something else new. I already just bought some new stuff recently, going to see how far I get with that with a few plugins to fill it out. diva still sounds better than the a4, and phaseplant can do all the wavetable/fm stuff I want. Then throw a couple real analog bits in there and call it a day. Also, I did end up buying the hapax and do not regret my decision, and I've already tried sequencing plugins with it and it works fine. have a weird-ass crazy hybrid studio setup but it's actually pretty cool, though some workflow stuff still needs to be practiced.

 

My daw is the clock and transport control, but I'm using a faderport 8 (I like them motorized controls) and I can use that to control my DAW when I'm next to my hardware, rough leveling, arming tracks to record, jump between cue markers. Then I can us my hapax to sequence and automate everything I want (including plugins sometimes), it's following the clock and transport too. Everything routes in through the audio interface and I can multitrack and use ITB effects for everything and automate lots of stuff. Really kind of a new workflow because typically I came from a purely daw world where everything was in one place, and then for the last few years made a drastic switch to pure hardware, which was incredibly enlightening from a creative standpoint to learn new ways of doing things and realizing it both limited me but also created new ways of working I'd never considered (tactile sequencing and p-locks, knob twiddling, analog mixing, live pattern changing). Now going back to a DAW partially, and it's again incredibly enlightening, working with audio instead of a piano roll and focusing more on mixing and effects than I ever did before while maintaining the kind of hardware-based approach to sequencing and building tracks that I developed over the years. The music I've been able to make on this kind of setup is some of my favorite I've done since I started making music.