Russia is now bombing Ukraine

[Silent Member]

2 hours ago, eye said:

what are you guys even talking about

A country is being bombed to bits while it's people are being slaughtered, and this one guy in here is worried about Nazis.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Silent Member

[Rubin Farr]

3 minutes ago, Silent Member said:

A country is being bombed to bits while it's people are being slaughtered, and this one guy in here is worried about Nazis.

He obviously does nat-zi the problemo 

[chenGOD]

1 hour ago, Rubin Farr said:

He obviously does nat-zi the problemo 

Time for your meds dad. 

[usagi]

lol

[ignatius]

2 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Time for your meds dad. 

Time for your meds dad  Vlad.

ftfy

[usagi]

Media Watch is a long running media analysis program that over the years has presented some of the best objective coverage, at least here in Australia, of what's happening in the media landscape. this recent episode from them is exactly what I trying to say earlier itt re information warfare:

it is apparently quite hard for many people to comprehend the idea that this is an available tool that can and will be used by everyone regardless of their moral standing in a conflict. it's also, I feel, a dangerous thing to overdo or fuck up lest you smear yourself as a perpetual liar. Russia is already addicted to lying as a strategy well beyond the point of no return, no sane/non-brainwashed person would take anything said by Russian officials at face value. but I think there's a risk that the Ukrainians playing with the same fire could get burned in a way that might ultimately hurt them in this war.

this is maybe the fifth or sixth time I've brought up Syria but again, it's because all the precedents were there: the fog of deliberate misinformation in that war grew so impenetrable that even humanitarian organisations like the White Helmets trying to save lives were being called rebel fronts. with the Azov types in the mix on the Ukrainian side now, there is the potential, if the misinfo similarly grows out of hand, that it'll be further fuel for people (such as our esteemed comrade zeff) to delegitimise the Ukrainians wholesale. in spite of the fact that in overall terms they are clearly justified in defending themselves against a plain aggressor.

meanwhile, quite apart from the abstract of who is spinning what stories, civilians continue to be killed and cities continue to be ground down to rubble. Mariupol has gone very quickly to hell, they've started using mass graves there. I thought it would take months before we'd see this kind of thing but it's been just two weeks.

[chenGOD]

10 hours ago, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

i have no idea, i never met any of them. canada definitely has nazis though.

yikes:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/03/free-m03.html

That article is hilarious for so many reasons:

"Slava Ukraine" (Glory to Ukraine) by itself is not a fascist slogan - it needs to be in conjunction with another phrase meaning "Glory to the Heroes". That's my understanding based on a little bit of research and asking some Ukraine friends.

It goes on to say: " As Deputy Prime Minister, she [Minister Freeland, in her role as Minister of Finance is what they actually mean]  has unveiled many of the brutal sanctions adopted by Ottawa against Russia, which amount to economic warfare and will have their most devastating impact on the lives of ordinary people." Most of Canada's economic sanctions are against Russian oligarchs and their assets in Canada, as well as entities they control.

Additionally, Canada-Russia bilateral trade is so little, any other economic sanctions will have no impact - they are a show of political solidarity in the face of an act of war conducted by Russia.

The article also says: "...the Canadian ruling class is clearly attempting to exploit this outrage, together with widespread political confusion about the background to the conflict, to marshal support for NATO’s proxy war against Russia." NATO was not engaged in a proxy war with Russia. NATO expansionism has already been addressed in this thread - but I will add a PDF that explains this in IR terms.

It next goes on to say: "Ukrainian nationalism firmly established itself in Canada after 1945, when the Liberal government of Prime Minister Louis St. Laurent undertook to admit tens of thousands of Nazi collaborators from Ukraine and other Eastern European countries. The established communities of Eastern European immigrants in Canada prior to the war had been politically dominated by socialists and the left. St. Laurent was determined to provide them with new leadership."

Which explains of course why every single National Socialist or Nazi party in Canadian history has been led by former Germans, and not a single member of a Nazi-related party has ever been elected to Canadian parliament. Canada additionally has a strong history of arresting and jailing Nazis and fascists or deporting them. (PDF link)

It then concludes its' fantasy by saying "Far-right Ukrainian nationalists are now at the very center of Canada’s foreign policy." Which is so far-fetched I can't even begin to address the inane nature of the statement.

10 hours ago, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

i haven't seen a single characterization like that in this thread or anything negative said towards any civilians.  anyway ukraine has a severe nazi problem

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

in fact so many nazis in its military that western media keeps accidentally getting Nazis stuck in their photo ops

https://imgur.com/a/6RbDgjc

 

As has been pointed out several times, the Azov battalion makes up approximately 2~3%  of Ukranian forces fighting against the Russian invaders.

That is a gallery with 3 photos in it. Out of the thousands of photos coming out of the invasion, you found 3. Well done.

9 hours ago, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

azov is only one neo-nazi group.  there are more

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector

and since zelensky started handing out weapons to anyone who asked for them you can bet every single fascist is armed, assuming they weren't to begin with

For clarity - Right Sector is a political party, not an armed group. In 2015, they had 2 nominal representatives (members who ran as independents and not on the party platform) in the Ukrainian parliament. In the 2019 election, they won none. In fact - "In the 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election, Right Sector took part on a united radical right nationwide-party list with the Governmental Initiative of Yarosh, National Corps, and Svoboda. This combination won 2.15% of the nationwide election list vote and no seats.^[38] This election the party did not win a single-mandate constituency parliamentary seat."

So they ran a united radical right nationwide party - and won 2.15% (in keeping with the proportion of the Azov battalion to total fighting forces), with NO parliamentary seats - or in other words, support declined.

Are Nazis bad? Of course they are. Does the Ukraine have a SEVERE Nazi problem? Not really. They exist and are bad. Why you're trying to obfuscate the issue here with this whole "Nazis are taking over" rhetoric is completely unclear, except for it provides you a vehicle to mouth off at NATO and through that, "the evil imperialists".

I fucking promised myself I wouldn't engage with you, but goddamn, this is almost as dumb as your previous statements under your incarnation as a red-pill MRA warrior. I won't repeat them, because as you have rightfully pointed out, you made them, learned, and changed your perspective. Much respect for that. However, it's also worse, because you're insulting the hell out of Ukraine and Russian citizens (the ones who keep getting arrested for protesting the war) who are suffering for Putin's hubris.

IR Theory Guide to Ukraine's War - (Walt - FP 2022).pdf

[zlemflolia]

39 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

That article is hilarious for so many reasons:

"Slava Ukraine" (Glory to Ukraine) by itself is not a fascist slogan - it needs to be in conjunction with another phrase meaning "Glory to the Heroes". That's my understanding based on a little bit of research and asking some Ukraine friends.

It goes on to say: " As Deputy Prime Minister, she [Minister Freeland, in her role as Minister of Finance is what they actually mean]  has unveiled many of the brutal sanctions adopted by Ottawa against Russia, which amount to economic warfare and will have their most devastating impact on the lives of ordinary people." Most of Canada's economic sanctions are against Russian oligarchs and their assets in Canada, as well as entities they control.

Additionally, Canada-Russia bilateral trade is so little, any other economic sanctions will have no impact - they are a show of political solidarity in the face of an act of war conducted by Russia.

The article also says: "...the Canadian ruling class is clearly attempting to exploit this outrage, together with widespread political confusion about the background to the conflict, to marshal support for NATO’s proxy war against Russia." NATO was not engaged in a proxy war with Russia. NATO expansionism has already been addressed in this thread - but I will add a PDF that explains this in IR terms.

It next goes on to say: "Ukrainian nationalism firmly established itself in Canada after 1945, when the Liberal government of Prime Minister Louis St. Laurent undertook to admit tens of thousands of Nazi collaborators from Ukraine and other Eastern European countries. The established communities of Eastern European immigrants in Canada prior to the war had been politically dominated by socialists and the left. St. Laurent was determined to provide them with new leadership."

Which explains of course why every single National Socialist or Nazi party in Canadian history has been led by former Germans, and not a single member of a Nazi-related party has ever been elected to Canadian parliament. Canada additionally has a strong history of arresting and jailing Nazis and fascists or deporting them. (PDF link)

It then concludes its' fantasy by saying "Far-right Ukrainian nationalists are now at the very center of Canada’s foreign policy." Which is so far-fetched I can't even begin to address the inane nature of the statement.

As has been pointed out several times, the Azov battalion makes up approximately 2~3%  of Ukranian forces fighting against the Russian invaders.

That is a gallery with 3 photos in it. Out of the thousands of photos coming out of the invasion, you found 3. Well done.

For clarity - Right Sector is a political party, not an armed group. In 2015, they had 2 nominal representatives (members who ran as independents and not on the party platform) in the Ukrainian parliament. In the 2019 election, they won none. In fact - "In the 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election, Right Sector took part on a united radical right nationwide-party list with the Governmental Initiative of Yarosh, National Corps, and Svoboda. This combination won 2.15% of the nationwide election list vote and no seats.^[38] This election the party did not win a single-mandate constituency parliamentary seat."

So they ran a united radical right nationwide party - and won 2.15% (in keeping with the proportion of the Azov battalion to total fighting forces), with NO parliamentary seats - or in other words, support declined.

Are Nazis bad? Of course they are. Does the Ukraine have a SEVERE Nazi problem? Not really. They exist and are bad. Why you're trying to obfuscate the issue here with this whole "Nazis are taking over" rhetoric is completely unclear, except for it provides you a vehicle to mouth off at NATO and through that, "the evil imperialists".

I fucking promised myself I wouldn't engage with you, but goddamn, this is almost as dumb as your previous statements under your incarnation as a red-pill MRA warrior. I won't repeat them, because as you have rightfully pointed out, you made them, learned, and changed your perspective. Much respect for that. However, it's also worse, because you're insulting the hell out of Ukraine and Russian citizens (the ones who keep getting arrested for protesting the war) who are suffering for Putin's hubris.

IR Theory Guide to Ukraine's War - (Walt - FP 2022).pdf 129.77 kB · 1 download

>The red and black banner and its slogan are associated with the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), the military arm of the OUN, the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists. The pro-Nazi OUN is drenched in the blood of thousands of innocent Poles and Jews massacred by its members during German imperialism’s war of annihilation against the Soviet Union.

literally an OUN flag lol

[chenGOD]

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2022/03/02/the-controversy-over-chrystia-freeland-and-the-ukrainian-scarf-explained.html

Quote

 

Although historians debate the UPA’s precise role in the Second World War — it fought at different times against the Soviets and the Germans — they have long accused the organization of collaborating with the Nazis during the Holocaust, and massacring tens of thousands of ethnic Poles.

However, the same colours have for centuries been linked to Ukrainian history and culture, explains Jars Balan, director of the Kule Ukrainian Canadian Studies Centre at the University of Alberta. The UPA did fly a red and black flag, he said, but the same colour scheme appears in literature and art from the 12th century on.

“Taras Hryhorovych Shevchenko, the most important poet to rise from Ukraine in the 19th century, incorporated those colours in a number of his works. They are the colours that are used in the embroidery of the Poltava region of Ukraine, which is the wellspring … of the Ukrainian literary language,” he said. “The colours were adopted in 1941, and during the Second World War by the UPA, because they were drawing on this tradition and Ukraine’s struggle for independence.”

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army

Quote

The OUN's stated immediate goal at the time of the German invasion of the Soviet Union was the re-establishment of a united, independent, German-aligned, mono-ethnic national state on the territory that would include parts of modern-day Russia, Poland, and Belarus.^[6] Violence was accepted as a political tool against foreign as well as domestic enemies of their cause, which was to be achieved by a national revolution led by a dictatorship that would drive out what they considered to be occupying powers and set up a government representing all regions and social groups.^[10] The organization began as a resistance group and developed into a guerrilla army.^[11] In 1943, the UPA was controlled by the OUN(B),^{[citation needed]} and included people of various political and ideological convictions. Furthermore, it needed the support of the broad masses against both the Germans and the Soviets. Much of the nationalist ideology, including the concept of dictatorship, did not appeal to former Soviet citizens who had experienced the dictatorship of the Communist Party. Hence, a revision of the OUN(B) ideology and political program was imperative. At its Third Extraordinary Grand Assembly on 21–25 August 1943, the OUN(B) condemned "internationalist and fascist national-socialist programs and political concepts" as well as "Russian-Bolshevik communism", and proposed a "system of free peoples and independent states [as] the single best solution to the problem of world order." Its social program did not differ essentially from earlier ones but emphasized a wide range of social services, worker participation in management, a mixed economy, choice of profession and workplace, and free trade unions. The OUN(B) affirmed that it was fighting for freedom of the press, speech, and thought. Its earlier nationality policy was encapsulated in the slogan "Ukraine for Ukrainians"; in 1943, the most extreme elements of it were officially abandoned, although the actual policy of the OUN(B) had not changed significantly, and the UPA undertook ethnic cleansing in 1943.^[6]

During its existence, the Ukrainian Insurgent Army fought against the Poles and the Soviets as their primary opponents, although the organization also fought against the Germans starting from February 1943, with many cases of collaboration with the German forces in the fight against Soviet partisan units. From late spring 1944, the UPA and Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists-B (OUN-B)—faced with Soviet advances—also cooperated with German forces against the Soviets and Poles in the hope of creating an independent Ukrainian state.^[12] The OUN also played a substantial role in the ethnic cleansing of the Polish population of Volhynia and East Galicia,^{[13][14][15][16][17]} and later preventing the deportation of the Ukrainians in southeastern Poland.^[18]

Not so black and white as you would have it.

[chenGOD]

Lavrov is a total piece of human garbage:

 

[thefxbip]

Seeing shit like this, and remembering the whole Trump admin debacle, i hope it remind us the importance of simply speaking the truth. 

When pure lies become the norm shit go south real quick.

 

[thefxbip]

Let's have it:

''In an ever-changing, incomprehensible world the masses had reached the point where they would, at the same time, believe everything and nothing, think that everything was possible and nothing was true… The totalitarian mass leaders based their propaganda on the correct psychological assumption that, under such conditions, one could make people believe the most fantastic statements one day, and trust that if the next day they were given irrefutable proof of their falsehood, they would take refuge in cynicism; instead of deserting the leaders who had lied to them, they would protest that they had known all along that the statement was a lie and would admire the leaders for their superior tactical cleverness.''

'' “being made to repeat an obvious lie makes it clear that you’re powerless.” 

''The result of a consistent and total substitution of lies for factual truth is not that the lie will now be accepted as truth and truth be defamed as a lie, but that the sense by which we take our bearings in the real world—and the category of truth versus falsehood is among the mental means to this end—is being destroyed.''-Hannah Arendt

Edited March 10, 2022 by thefxbip

[EdamAnchorman]

25 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

Seeing shit like this, and remembering the whole Trump admin debacle, i hope it remind us the importance of simply speaking the truth. 

When pure lies become the norm shit go south real quick.

 

 

[dcom]

 

[Enthusiast]

 

[Alcofribas]

3 minutes ago, Enthusiast said:

 

*jots it down*

[beerwolf]

Anthrax Infected Bat

[chenGOD]

19 minutes ago, beerwolf said:

Anthrax Infected Bat

Better or worse than COVID Infected Bat? AIB v CIB cage match.

[zlemflolia]

54 minutes ago, Enthusiast said:

 

at this point any mention of "anonymous" should just be read as "US intelligence agencies"

[cern]

Russia Says Injured Pregnant Woman Is a Crisis Actor. She’s Actually a Pregnant Blogger.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russia-says-injured-pregnant-woman-is-a-crisis-actor-shes-actually-a-pregnant-blogger

[zlemflolia]

2 minutes ago, cern said:

Russia Says Injured Pregnant Woman Is a Crisis Actor. She’s Actually a Pregnant Blogger.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russia-says-injured-pregnant-woman-is-a-crisis-actor-shes-actually-a-pregnant-blogger

ya, pregnant women just love travelling to active warzones to take weird staged photos with fake blood on them. for some reason i suspect even if you offered money youd be told to fuck off

[Nebraska]

1 hour ago, Enthusiast said:

 

they really need to get their stories straight because according to this tv host, they're actually "fascist scum" not "nazis disguised as pregnant women"

 

[zazen]

I like Edward Snowden, he took real risks leaking what he did, and what he revealed did lead to a lot of changes (a complete change to the way people thought about snooping on the internet, like pretty much every website being ssl now). He had to go on the run, via Hong Kong. Didn't intend to end up in Russia but thats where he ended up ("exile was not a choice")

In the run up to the invasion of Ukraine he was skeptical of Biden. Maybe that was being forced, or maybe its just what he thought...

Then when Putin made his speech on the 21st about recognising Donetsk etc

Then on the 27th, three days into the invasion:

And nothing since. Nothing from his wife either. They've got a little kid and another one on the way. Maybe he's lying low, maybe he's trying to get out?

I mean I know its just one small detail of this massive crisis thats affecting millions, but still.

Edited March 10, 2022 by zazen

[usagi]

5 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Lavrov is a total piece of human garbage:

 

he's like some cardboard cutout from the Soviet era.

[zlemflolia]

civilians complaining about ukrainian military setting up howitzers in residential areas, this video being posted by a major open source intelligence twitter profile "asbmilitary" got their entire profile banned: