What ever happened to Venetian Snares?

[Soloman Tump]

Sleep is an amazing album, and so is the "lost sleep" companion digital EP.

VSnares is the man.  Hope he drops some new bombs on us soon, but whenever he is ready.  We were spoilt for a long while so fair do if he needs to find his feet again. 

[drillkicker]

11 hours ago, Alcofribas said:

i would argue that a computer and software qualify as "gear" and are the main equipment used to make music in the 21st century. i personally think this is a kind of "gear lust." something like the notion that you can "do more," everything is "more efficient" or whatever with a computer is the dominant ideology of music-making in our time. 

to me, characterizing having an interest in non-computer technology as a kind of corrupting "gear lust" is really ignoring how beholden we are to computers. this is a something of a bugbear of mine, not meant with hostility toward you

I dont see that.  Most people who make electronic music own a computer of some form, with a DAW even.  I just add max/msp on top of that and that's all i need.  No need for continual thousands of dollars spent on modules.  I already have everything i need and ive been using the same tools (max+ableton) for the past decade or so.  Ive acquired more gear since then but none of it stuck and i always revert to the same two tools.  I use max to make the sounds and i use live intro to edit sounds into finished pieces.  That's all i need and i dont expect that will ever change.

Also, i dont think physical devices = gear lust.  As i said, i have friends who make very cool sounds with eurorack modules.  It just isnt something i can afford.  But buying modules you dont need in order to make music that could easily be made on a computer alone is annoying and irresponsible.

[Freak of the week]

gear lust is good when it allows you to make stuff like this

[o00o]

I wish he would evolve into something even more experimental but he kind of did the same thing in different colors over and over again 

[hoggy]

1 hour ago, o00o said:

the same thing

 

...?

Maybe you just don't like his music, which is fine, but I don't know how you could ask for more varied music without him being a completely different person - like the weird way hears melody has some continuity, but to me that's because he's exploring emotional territory that resonates with him personally - and me too, but maybe those types of emotion don't resonate with you personally you so they just sound "the same"? Kind of like when parents say metal is "just noise"?

4 hours ago, drillkicker said:

Also, i dont think physical devices = gear lust.

Very true

Edited August 30, 2023 by hoggy
expanding

[hoggy]

12 hours ago, Ivan Ooze said:

I tought people on drugs were gonna die

Oh my god so fucking crazy on MDMA when I saw him at Brixton Academy (I think that's where it was) when it started strobing towards the end and his looming silhouette felt like it was rapidly approaching

Though I wasn't on anything when he played electrowerks, the mosh pit was just an overwhelming mass of limbs and bodies, so good!

[thumbass]

I've always loved cavalcade, hospitality, chocolate wheelchair but his music can be a bit much sometimes. I woke up a while ago and I also suddenly wondered where he was. Whatever hes up to he's hopefully doing well!

[drillkicker]

4 hours ago, Freak of the week said:

gear lust is good when it allows you to make stuff like this

Im confused at florian hecker being included in your selection.  I don't think he even uses gear these days, so he hardly seems like a case of gear lust.

[Freak of the week]

^he used Buchla on that one 

[Alcofribas]

9 hours ago, drillkicker said:

I dont see that.  Most people who make electronic music own a computer of some form, with a DAW even.  I just add max/msp on top of that and that's all i need.  No need for continual thousands of dollars spent on modules.  I already have everything i need and ive been using the same tools (max+ableton) for the past decade or so.  Ive acquired more gear since then but none of it stuck and i always revert to the same two tools.  I use max to make the sounds and i use live intro to edit sounds into finished pieces.  That's all i need and i dont expect that will ever change.

Also, i dont think physical devices = gear lust.  As i said, i have friends who make very cool sounds with eurorack modules.  It just isnt something i can afford.  But buying modules you dont need in order to make music that could easily be made on a computer alone is annoying and irresponsible.

what i'm focused on here is spiral's claim, with which you agreed, that getting into modular/hardware is "the death of creativity." i mean, i think it's really obvious that people make extremely beautiful and creative music with hardware so i don't think that claim has any merit whatsoever. sure, there are people who get walls of modular and make absolutely shit music but this is infinitely more true for people making music with their computers. 

i'd like to talk a bit about this idea that "all you need" is a computer and a daw and max or something like that. obviously, that's a powerful set up and if that's what you specifically are into that's lush and i don't wish to criticize that for you. there's something quite attractive about that to me, even. but i think generally speaking the computer makes us talk like this. it makes us think we need it, and it is all we need. it's both the bare minimum and the maximum. people always refer to their computer and smartphone as something they need. it's as though you're cut out of life itself without this bare minimum of a few thousand dollars of devices (and you absolutely will have to continue to spend lots of money on these over time). and there is a kind of hostility here toward other ways of doing things. it makes us think in terms of "i don't need to do something else if i can do it on my computer with ease." i think, for one thing, if we are talking about creativity this attitude is a form of laziness. since when is music making all about doing what is easiest? doing things the "hard way" is often very rewarding work. i don't use modular gear but i can imagine there is a special kind of joy in patching something up. the way it inherently makes you slow down could really help put you into a nice state for opening yourself up to music. the way you can just patch randomly and find totally unexpected sounds could really create some amazing surprises and bring the music in for you. all the tactile sensations happening, the colors, maybe even odors involved, all these can talk to your imagination. so to me it's unintuitive to say that it's "annoying" to do this or the "death of creativity" when you could more "easily" do this on a computer. especially since the computer is almost all visual, and since we use it for so many things it lacks the kind of specificity of instruments. 

i also think that this insistence on how the computer can replace everything overestimates the "ease" this technology brings to our lives. there are many angles to criticize this. for instance, specifically i think typing on a text screen is legit rubbish technology; imo autocorrect isn't correcting your mistakes it's correcting for a bad interface that makes you use your thumbs to press a visual cue the size of an apple seed on a flat piece of glass. is it truly easier to use a mouse to change a value than using a knob? is it easier to open up a softsynth than to have an actual synth in front of you? i think this stuff adds up, especially when you see how this technology encroaches on our lives so insidiously - everything must be done with the computer. so i think when we evaluate "ease" we would also want to take into account the accumulative effect of mediating so much in our life with one single technology. there's a lot of burn out here, depression, fatigue, just from constantly staring at a flat screen alone. earlier spiral directed his ire at the #analog and what is that? it's a computer phenomenon! even when you are using analog or going dawless you are compelled to represent it on social media. it's not real until it's online and be can scrolled through on a phone.

so i see this tendency to regard computers as this fundamental necessity in our lives that we basically never question. we might even have an ironic stance toward them - lots of memes for instance about phone addiction, binging on social media, stuff like that - but we never part ways with it. and with this is an antagonism to other technologies, other approaches to doing things a computer supposedly can do. and it's this kind of thing that i'm aiming my sights on. obviously, computers are an awesome technology (i am typing on one presently) and not only do i not hate computer music but i actually love what it can do (the autechre brothers are divine entities imo). but i very much encourage efforts to shut off the screen and do things "the hard way." not for you, specifically of course. but generally speaking.

 

[drillkicker]

9 hours ago, Alcofribas said:

what i'm focused on here is spiral's claim, with which you agreed, that getting into modular/hardware is "the death of creativity." i mean, i think it's really obvious that people make extremely beautiful and creative music with hardware so i don't think that claim has any merit whatsoever. sure, there are people who get walls of modular and make absolutely shit music but this is infinitely more true for people making music with their computers. 

i'd like to talk a bit about this idea that "all you need" is a computer and a daw and max or something like that. obviously, that's a powerful set up and if that's what you specifically are into that's lush and i don't wish to criticize that for you. there's something quite attractive about that to me, even. but i think generally speaking the computer makes us talk like this. it makes us think we need it, and it is all we need. it's both the bare minimum and the maximum. people always refer to their computer and smartphone as something they need. it's as though you're cut out of life itself without this bare minimum of a few thousand dollars of devices (and you absolutely will have to continue to spend lots of money on these over time). and there is a kind of hostility here toward other ways of doing things. it makes us think in terms of "i don't need to do something else if i can do it on my computer with ease." i think, for one thing, if we are talking about creativity this attitude is a form of laziness. since when is music making all about doing what is easiest? doing things the "hard way" is often very rewarding work. i don't use modular gear but i can imagine there is a special kind of joy in patching something up. the way it inherently makes you slow down could really help put you into a nice state for opening yourself up to music. the way you can just patch randomly and find totally unexpected sounds could really create some amazing surprises and bring the music in for you. all the tactile sensations happening, the colors, maybe even odors involved, all these can talk to your imagination. so to me it's unintuitive to say that it's "annoying" to do this or the "death of creativity" when you could more "easily" do this on a computer. especially since the computer is almost all visual, and since we use it for so many things it lacks the kind of specificity of instruments. 

i also think that this insistence on how the computer can replace everything overestimates the "ease" this technology brings to our lives. there are many angles to criticize this. for instance, specifically i think typing on a text screen is legit rubbish technology; imo autocorrect isn't correcting your mistakes it's correcting for a bad interface that makes you use your thumbs to press a visual cue the size of an apple seed on a flat piece of glass. is it truly easier to use a mouse to change a value than using a knob? is it easier to open up a softsynth than to have an actual synth in front of you? i think this stuff adds up, especially when you see how this technology encroaches on our lives so insidiously - everything must be done with the computer. so i think when we evaluate "ease" we would also want to take into account the accumulative effect of mediating so much in our life with one single technology. there's a lot of burn out here, depression, fatigue, just from constantly staring at a flat screen alone. earlier spiral directed his ire at the #analog and what is that? it's a computer phenomenon! even when you are using analog or going dawless you are compelled to represent it on social media. it's not real until it's online and be can scrolled through on a phone.

so i see this tendency to regard computers as this fundamental necessity in our lives that we basically never question. we might even have an ironic stance toward them - lots of memes for instance about phone addiction, binging on social media, stuff like that - but we never part ways with it. and with this is an antagonism to other technologies, other approaches to doing things a computer supposedly can do. and it's this kind of thing that i'm aiming my sights on. obviously, computers are an awesome technology (i am typing on one presently) and not only do i not hate computer music but i actually love what it can do (the autechre brothers are divine entities imo). but i very much encourage efforts to shut off the screen and do things "the hard way." not for you, specifically of course. but generally speaking.

 

I dont think ive ever dissed physical gear (since i use mixing board and effect pedals at live shows often) but i do really dislike the way it's fetishized.  People seem to think that spending more money on more gear will give them more ability to do more things with sound when really that's just a waste of money and space.  To me it feels much easier to make weird sounds with hardware than with software because of the tactile response and the money that you invested to get the thing, but the vast majority of people who use this hardware, i suspect, don't actually know whats going on behind the faceplate.  They wouldnt be able to visualize what the devices are doing to the waveforms that are being put into them.  So the machines make it feel like they can do more but really it's just because they dont have to learn as much background knowledge than they would need in order to do the same thing on their computer.  My hot take is that using tools like max or supercollider force you to learn a thing or two about audio signals and i think learning to use these is a very helpful tool to become an adaptable musician, producer, or sound engineer.  Knowing how to process your inputs in order to create a certain effect opens up many more ways to experiment with these processes.

That's not to say that physical gear doesn't have its valid applications, it definitely does.  Being able to control multiple things at a time with both hands is a massive advantage over just using a mouse.  The physical objects are also less distracting than a bunch of stuff cluttered together and compartmentalized on a single screen, and placements of your gear can also be used creatively.  Also, and most importantly for me, the chemical properties of analog circuits cant be modelled on a digital system.  This is the sole reason why i own gear at all.  I cant make a no-input feedback loop on a computer without adding some sort of artificial buffer somewhere in the loop, and it also wouldn't account for the heating and cooling of different circuits which lead to unpredictable results.  Things like this are the actual reasons to use physical gear, but just buying things to make up for your lack of ability is a bad habit imo.

Personally i dont have the money or the space for more than a few pieces of gear, and travelling to shows frequently means i have to trim down my tools to the bare minimum that i need, so i dont bother with a lot of stuff.  Even when i have had synthesizers and semimodular things i realized that i could do more interesting things on my computer but with fewer limitations so i got rid of most of it.  I love that i can just work for hours without ever encountering a roadblock.  I never find myself running out of cables or not being able to use the same effect multiple times and that allows me to do much more with the time that i have to work.

It seems like youre arguing with more people than just me which idk anything about.  Im used to being around people who are all about gear so im usually the one with the unpopular opinion about this, so maybe im just not hip to the mainstream conversation.  This is just what ive come to think my living and making sounds.

[zazen]

guys, guys, check this out:

In 2005 I bought VS 'Defluxion' from Bleep (labelled as Untitled 7", originally dated 2001 ) and it was a reallly chilled track and I've always loved it and I was coming to post it in this thread as an example of Venetian Snares doing something chill and low key for a change. But then I find the youtube link and on youtube its a completely different track and its all breakcore??

This is not the Defluxion I bought in 2005:

But I bought my track from Bleep, this isn't some Limewire labelling fuckup. The mp3 still has the bleep tags. But the version on Bleep today is also breakcore. So Bleep must have sent me a track by someone completely different 18 years ago labelled as Venetian Snares and ever since its been my favourite snares track.

So can someone ID this please, who is this?

Extract:

edit: Thanks cern, looks like the Bleep tombola actually gave me o9 - No Delay For Days

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by zazen
dates

[cern]

 

 

https://www.discogs.com/release/23454-Various-The-Cosmic-Forces-Of-Mu

[hoggy]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

Venetian Snares doing something chill and low key for a change

A few I can think of, there are probably more here and there

[hello spiral]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

guys, guys, check this out:

In 2005 I bought VS 'Defluxion' from Bleep (labelled as Untitled 7", originally dated 2001 ) and it was a reallly chilled track and I've always loved it and I was coming to post it in this thread as an example of Venetian Snares doing something chill and low key for a change. But then I find the youtube link and on youtube its a completely different track and its all breakcore??

This is not the Defluxion I bought in 2005:

But I bought my track from Bleep, this isn't some Limewire labelling fuckup. The mp3 still has the bleep tags. But the version on Bleep today is also breakcore. So Bleep must have sent me a track by someone completely different 18 years ago labelled as Venetian Snares and ever since its been my favourite snares track.

So can someone ID this please, who is this?

Extract:

 

 

 

 

 

P Mu got form this shit lol

I listened to the Ambulance album via AM for the first time, one of my fave Mu albums that I used to own on CD.

My fave track on there was not the right track, turned out to be another track by a completely different Mu artist. I tweeted sunken foals guy (ex-Ambulance) about it and he was like "have they still not fixed that yet?!"

[zazen]

oh yes Hiszekeny is great, I'd forgotten that one

[hoggy]

18 minutes ago, zazen said:

oh yes Hiszekeny is great, I'd forgotten that one

I like Hiszenkeny melodically but I feel like he got better at the physical sound of the orchestral stuff later. My fave of those tracks is Aaron, something trippy and empty about it. Would be nice if he did a fully ambient album, I feel like he could explore more in that area - it might add another dimension his work overall, like I feel like drukqs wouldn't be the same if Aphex hadn't made SAW2. We can only hope though. I heard he did a quiet set once, would be curious if there's more material we've not heard, or he used other versions of the hardcore stuff

edit: actually listening to Hiszenkeny again, I really like it more than I remember

Edited August 31, 2023 by hoggy
second thought

[Freak of the week]

On 8/31/2023 at 10:52 AM, zazen said:

Venetian Snares doing something chill and low key for a change

[cern]

I wish he could continue with his Last Step project. 

Very low-key and different from his ordinary Breakcore diarrhea that is just getting annoying to listen to. 

No this is the shit!
 

 

[silentvision]

Heard he got into the hot sauce game.

[hoggy]

On 9/6/2023 at 1:25 PM, cern said:

ordinary Breakcore diarrhea

ok dude

[o00o]

https://microsauceriepikopeppers.com/products/vsnares-special-sauce