Autechre Autechre - Oversteps (WARP210) [The MegaThread]

[jules]

christ, this thread should just be exploded when oversteps is released. i wish i could contribute to the oversteps discussion but i havent even heard a damn preview yet. i reeeeally hope that if it releases on march 3 in japan that bleep puts it up on 3/3 also. if this leak is the only thing on the net, then bleep arent going to release digital files early at all.

[xox]

Yes, I know... again, what is your point?.

 

This:

Whereas it is often the case that vinyl is more sympathetically mastered than cd,>>>and while a cd will have a lower noise floor, its mastering may well mean the dynamics are squashed to oblivion.

 

It's not correlated.

Cd can handle more extremes because LASER can read more accurate and faster than needle and that's way it's more appropriate for 'loudness war' not because CD has better dynamic range.

 

I think there's a language gap here.

 

CDs have a greater dynamic range, hence lower noise floor, than vinyl.

 

CD mastering often means brickwall limiting, which means the loss of one of the advantages of the CD medium, the greater range of dynamics that is allowed, although it will retain the advantage of a lower noise floor. At no point did I say the loudness war was an unavoidable consequence of the greater dynamic range of cds. The 'loudness war' started with vinyl. Please stop cutting my quotes up to imply something that I haven't said.

 

 

Again, I'm totally confused about your argument here. We were talking about the advantages and disadvantages of vinyl in the real world. From my experience, vinyl tends to be more sympathetically mastered than cd. Are you suggesting that brickwall limiting isn't a problem for cds? That I don't believe that vinyl isn't more sympathetically mastered than cd? At no point am I making any correlation between dynamic range and brickwall limiting. I am saying that brickwall limiting negates one of the adavantages of greater dynamic range.

 

 

 

IMO it's not because of 'brickwall limiting' per se...

Limiters are inevitable but they can be set to limit only like 0.01 dB if you want.

 

Amber sounds far better on Cd to me. Untilted too...even if it's somewhat overcompressed.

 

It's because of disability of the vinyl to reproduce crispy sounds with a fast attack equally good as CDs.

 

I remember watching a documentary about the Queen. One producer said that they had difficulties getting Freddie Mercury to sound good on vinyl but CD changed that completely.

 

 

I think that most of today's music is being overcompressed at mixing stage not mastering but if some mastering engineer gets an album to make a vinyl master then he must compress it MORE than for a CD because vinyl has lower dynamic rage and the needle is not quick enough and the vinyl is not thick enough for a drastic changes in loudness.

 

If some album is too much overcompressed i'm not listening it more than once...i can't! It could be pressed on the golden voyager plates. No way!

 

Like >>>>Clark<<<<< Too bad he fucked up pretty good albums! Maybe he sounds better on vinyl. ...but i'm sure not good enough.

[xox]

I wondering who was the mastering engineer on Oversteps. It sounds very interesting!

 

(Rashad Becker - my favorite mastering engineer) http://www.monolake.de/interviews/mastering.html

 

http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/london/lecture-videos/stuart_hawkes_wino_made_me_do_it

http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/london/lecture-videos/john_dent__extreme_makeover

http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/london/lecture-videos/moritz_von_oswald_early_morning_freestyles

[kaini]

darrell fitton?

[xox]

darrell fitton?

 

Heh...maybe Arovane

[locustlx]

I just discovered a link with these times

 

R Ess 4:43

Ilanders 5:24

Known(1) 4:38

Pt2ph8 4:06

Qplay 4:34

See On See 4:33

Treale 6:01

Os Veix3 4:39

0=0 4:45

D-Sho Qub 6:20

St Epreo 4:03

Redfall 3:49

krYlon 6:01

Yuop 5:50

 

What did I download because all of these times seem shorter...by the way they are 320 kbps mp3 files

[sidewinder]

christ, this thread should just be exploded when oversteps is released. i wish i could contribute to the oversteps discussion but i havent even heard a damn preview yet.

Yes! Fresh start.

[baph]

I say we take off and nuke the thread from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

 

 

[xyrofen]

I just discovered a link with these times

 

R Ess 4:43

Ilanders 5:24

Known(1) 4:38

Pt2ph8 4:06

Qplay 4:34

See On See 4:33

Treale 6:01

Os Veix3 4:39

0=0 4:45

D-Sho Qub 6:20

St Epreo 4:03

Redfall 3:49

krYlon 6:01

Yuop 5:50

 

What did I download because all of these times seem shorter...by the way they are 320 kbps mp3 files

 

These match up very well with the m4a.

[thehauntingsoul]

I just discovered a link with these times

 

R Ess 4:43

Ilanders 5:24

Known(1) 4:38

Pt2ph8 4:06

Qplay 4:34

See On See 4:33

Treale 6:01

Os Veix3 4:39

0=0 4:45

D-Sho Qub 6:20

St Epreo 4:03

Redfall 3:49

krYlon 6:01

Yuop 5:50

 

What did I download because all of these times seem shorter...by the way they are 320 kbps mp3 files

The one I have is 320kbps mp3s. Someone post that link to the samples, I'm too lazy but it's been bumped several times. Compare your mp3s to the sample clips to see if you have the legit version.

 

edit: I overcame my laziness http://www.normanrecords.com/records/113468

 

You wanna know how far back I had to search for that shit? All the way to page 236 ffs!

Edited February 19, 2010 by thehauntingsoul

[kaini]

real watmmers use 50 posts per page

 

damn straight fellow page 75er

[oscillik]

Yes, I know... again, what is your point?.

 

This:

Whereas it is often the case that vinyl is more sympathetically mastered than cd,>>>and while a cd will have a lower noise floor, its mastering may well mean the dynamics are squashed to oblivion.

 

It's not correlated.

Cd can handle more extremes because LASER can read more accurate and faster than needle and that's way it's more appropriate for 'loudness war' not because CD has better dynamic range.

 

I think there's a language gap here.

 

CDs have a greater dynamic range, hence lower noise floor, than vinyl.

 

CD mastering often means brickwall limiting, which means the loss of one of the advantages of the CD medium, the greater range of dynamics that is allowed, although it will retain the advantage of a lower noise floor. At no point did I say the loudness war was an unavoidable consequence of the greater dynamic range of cds. The 'loudness war' started with vinyl. Please stop cutting my quotes up to imply something that I haven't said.

 

 

Again, I'm totally confused about your argument here. We were talking about the advantages and disadvantages of vinyl in the real world. From my experience, vinyl tends to be more sympathetically mastered than cd. Are you suggesting that brickwall limiting isn't a problem for cds? That I don't believe that vinyl isn't more sympathetically mastered than cd? At no point am I making any correlation between dynamic range and brickwall limiting. I am saying that brickwall limiting negates one of the adavantages of greater dynamic range.

 

 

 

IMO it's not because of 'brickwall limiting' per se...

Limiters are inevitable but they can be set to limit only like 0.01 dB if you want.

 

Amber sounds far better on Cd to me. Untilted too...even if it's somewhat overcompressed.

 

It's because of disability of the vinyl to reproduce crispy sounds with a fast attack equally good as CDs.

 

I remember watching a documentary about the Queen. One producer said that they had difficulties getting Freddie Mercury to sound good on vinyl but CD changed that completely.

 

 

I think that most of today's music is being overcompressed at mixing stage not mastering but if some mastering engineer gets an album to make a vinyl master then he must compress it MORE than for a CD because vinyl has lower dynamic rage and the needle is not quick enough and the vinyl is not thick enough for a drastic changes in loudness.

 

If some album is too much overcompressed i'm not listening it more than once...i can't! It could be pressed on the golden voyager plates. No way!

 

Like >>>>Clark<<<<< Too bad he fucked up pretty good albums! Maybe he sounds better on vinyl. ...but i'm sure not good enough.

 

while your point about vinyl playback not being able to handle sudden and extreme changes in volume is pertinent from a physics standpoint, the fact still remains that CDs are mastered a certain way that causes digital clipping of the original waveforms. you only have to open up a recent Depeche Mode CD in a waveform editor to see the plateau effect. Yes, vinyl may be mastered so that there are less extreme dynamic changes in a short space of time, but at least you don't get digital crunch at the waveform peaks.

 

also, lol at The Queen

Edited February 19, 2010 by oscillik

[Guest Calx Sherbet]

i keep forgetting to listen to this lol

[baph]

I deleted it, because I want to still be in the honeymoon period when it is released I download it again in three days.

[six]

I say we take off and nuke the thread from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

 

 

 

They mostly post at night. Mostly.

[TwiddleBot]

the fact still remains that CDs are mastered a certain way that causes digital clipping of the original waveforms.

 

i think you're talking about limiters that boost the signal and cut it above a certain threshold. cds don't have to be mastered this way. anyway a good chunk of vinyl is mastered digitally as well, they have been pretty much for decades (unless you can afford to get your stuff pressed by abbey road, afaik they are the only studio in the world able to do analogue straight from start to finish). What i think you're getting at is just the subjectively pleasant sound of vinyl. btw, there are mastering engineers who don't use limiting..

 

Anyway as far as vinyl degrading, i have to say bollocks to that as well. have had a good chunk of my records for 10+ years now, and i do clean them often, usually brush them before every play. can't say i've noticed any perceivable change in their quality. most of them still hardly have a pop or click.

Edited February 19, 2010 by TwiddleBot

[khov]

i had mixed thought about getting vinyl instead of cds (with good headphones, cds are great for details) with strictly digital music. like Alva Noto, Hecker. indeed, i got them on vinyl but often thinks that beside the sentimental aspect (artwork, holding a big physical objet, design) its a bit ridiculous. also, i'm considering buying the latest SND record : dunno if i should wait for the forthcoming SD card version (96khz 24bit) or just get the plain cd version & shut the fuck up with those placebo audiophile bullshit.

[TwiddleBot]

(96khz 24bit) or just get the plain cd version & shut the fuck up with those placebo audiophile bullshit.

 

i personally usually find it pretty easy to hear the difference between 44.1 and anything above 44.1 (48/96). there's a sheen and warmth that's just not present at 44.1. (Of course that could have something to do with the conversion process too..) but as for 24 bit, for his music, i highly doubt it makes any perceivable difference.

[xox]

 

while your point about vinyl playback not being able to handle sudden and extreme changes in volume is pertinent from a physics standpoint, the fact still remains that CDs are mastered a certain way that causes digital clipping of the original waveforms. you only have to open up a recent Depeche Mode CD in a waveform editor to see the plateau effect. Yes, vinyl may be mastered so that there are less extreme dynamic changes in a short space of time, but at least you don't get digital crunch at the waveform peaks.

 

also, lol at The Queen

 

 

 

''digital crunch at the waveform peaks'' is audible only if track is badly overcompressed and if there are some problems with intersample clipping. Not always! Some tracks are mastered with an RMS of -8 dBFS and still i can't hear any clipping. With some i can hear clipping at -14 dBFS.

There are tens of reasons why clipping may occur.

But what about vinyl side effects like clicks, pops, crackling...They're audible, aren't they?

...and there are several reasons why clicks and pops may occur. I know! I know!

 

If Depeche Mode CD is overcompressed then i would buy the vinyl if it's better...ASAT

And yes, i agree...most today's music on CDs is squashed...but what if is not? What about older albums like Amber on CD? Or Sun Electric - 30.7.94?

Or what about new Kraftwerk remastered CDs? They sound OK to me!

[xy_politics]

vinyl is my format of choice, i love vinyl, i have thousands, but i would never try to claim that it is a more accurate recording medium than 44.1Khz/16bit digital, never mind higher resolutions. it simply isn't. mastering issues notwithstanding, of course.

 

however, more accurate doesn't necessarily mean better.. that's why i'll enjoy playing oversteps on vinyl much more than the super-fidelity 24-bit wavs. simply put, it's just a more interesting experience.

[xox]

I say we take off and nuke the thread from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

 

 

 

They mostly post at night. Mostly.

 

LOL

 

[BobDobalina]

(96khz 24bit) or just get the plain cd version & shut the fuck up with those placebo audiophile bullshit.

 

i personally usually find it pretty easy to hear the difference between 44.1 and anything above 44.1 (48/96). there's a sheen and warmth that's just not present at 44.1. (Of course that could have something to do with the conversion process too..) but as for 24 bit, for his music, i highly doubt it makes any perceivable difference.

This is exactly the placebo audiophile bullshit you need to shut up about.

 

In the respectable scientific audio community if you want to make a dubious claim, like it's easy to differentiate between 16/44 and higher res audio, you need to be able to back it up with proof that you can actually hear a difference (ABX test results). Sheen and warmth are bullshit audiophile terms. If you tried to spout this nonsense at hydrogenaudio you'd be mocked if not banned.

 

/rant

[Mika Technika]

[youtubehd]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfuOjvAMaE8&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfuOjvAMaE8&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/youtubehd]

[jules]

wow. um. wow ok, so i caved and listened to the sampler. holy shit this needs to release! i think i understand the reference to the enso on the cover. lots of stuff sounded very asian influenced. i listened to that sampler and yelled bonsai! i need to hear this fucker now. damn it bleep!!!!

[Guest Glass Plate]

wow I want to hear the whole thing oh my goodness.ssss