How does the World view America these days?

[Lane Visitor]

Frybread tho... mmm... delicious and immigrant-free.

Omg want. Just a dash of powdered sugar and ill tear through my phone screen just for that. I will literally munch on glass.

[Lane Visitor]

 

you're not doing anything but fanning the flames by being okay with singling out america. one of the biggest reasons humanity is fucking helpless with fixing our own problems and working together is because we're so goddamn addicted to pointing fingers and name calling, whether it's at others or ourselves-- both just as bad.

Why though? For real people are obsessed with money over here. I talk to people about what they're doing, about careers and it's always, I don't make enough money, I'm trying to get a better paying job, I want to get into an industry with a bigger starting salary. I bought the newer expensiver version of that thing you have, I'm buying the new iPhone as soon as it comes out, I don't buy used, I know riding the bus is better for the environment but I want to drive because I'm better than people who ride the bus, I want to eat where I can take cute selfies of my pretty food and might not even eat it, I need to see every big budget movie that comes out on opening day and I'm going to watch all the previews so I know about every other big budget movie coming out, I need the details of every single big product release, I must subscribe to every digital media service so I can watch a constant stream of new content.

 

Is it like that everywhere?

 

I didn't say shit about imperialism and all that. All's I'm sayin' is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXE_n2q08Yw

I couldn't agree with you more on all of that. But these things don't define "who we are as Americans" or are excusive to america imo. It's a product of where western civilization, technology and globalism is taking us. Because this region we call the US happens to have more money and resources (whether naturally or unnaturally acquired) than most other places on the globe, we see more of what you're describing here. It has nothing to do with our character, nationality, "culture" or identity. People who become absorbed into the whole materialist pursuit will do so no matter what region they live in, where they come from or what allegiance they subscribe to. We've seen this trait since the beginning of history. This is not to say that geopolitical and economic power structures don't have influence over greed and corruption, just that making America (or any country for that matter) the boogeyman or inheritantly "something or another" is an illusion.

[Lane Visitor]

I just think its more damagimg than we think to characterize what a nation of people represent in broad strokes or limit what it can be. For example--the freemarket system. We can absolutely have reform and limit the amount of loopholes that lend to sheer excess of the ultra-rich in this country (and we should). But what incentive is there to do so when the constant narrative is re-enforcement of the status quo. One of the many things that re-enforces that status quo is apathy. Limiting this country to how we are percieved on a global scale and amongst ourselves, a self-fulfilling prophecy. That and the fact that "well fucking America man, that's what it's all about I guess, right?" No one to tell them "NO", like the resounding demonization that topics like this thread perpetuate. For better or worse. Somewhere between battered wife syndrome and the phenomenon of how obese people often only play the comedic roles in hollywood and willingly accept the generalization that they can't be taken seriously as a people. If no one can envision a changed america, a bettered america, or highlight the good things about it, theres no incentive from within to make that change and strive to be that ideal. Nations are people--just on bigger and more complex scales. Generalizing breeds apathy, both on individual and global scales. Apathy breeds indifference, ignorance and selfishness--a vicious cycle.

[Lane Visitor]

Perfect example is the thread title -how about "How can the world encourage America?" to limit the amount of silent "fuck off, european snobs", because most of us watmmers in the us surely dont feel that way but its kinda hard not to want to take a jab back when we already damn well know that our country is a mess right now. What good does marginilizing it further do for anyone?

Edited October 5, 2017 by Lane Visitor

[zaphod]

Frybread tho... mmm... delicious and immigrant-free.

 

[goDel]

 

 

you're not doing anything but fanning the flames by being okay with singling out america. one of the biggest reasons humanity is fucking helpless with fixing our own problems and working together is because we're so goddamn addicted to pointing fingers and name calling, whether it's at others or ourselves-- both just as bad.

Why though? For real people are obsessed with money over here. I talk to people about what they're doing, about careers and it's always, I don't make enough money, I'm trying to get a better paying job, I want to get into an industry with a bigger starting salary. I bought the newer expensiver version of that thing you have, I'm buying the new iPhone as soon as it comes out, I don't buy used, I know riding the bus is better for the environment but I want to drive because I'm better than people who ride the bus, I want to eat where I can take cute selfies of my pretty food and might not even eat it, I need to see every big budget movie that comes out on opening day and I'm going to watch all the previews so I know about every other big budget movie coming out, I need the details of every single big product release, I must subscribe to every digital media service so I can watch a constant stream of new content.

Is it like that everywhere?

I didn't say shit about imperialism and all that. All's I'm sayin' ishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXE_n2q08Yw

I couldn't agree with you more on all of that. But these things don't define "who we are as Americans" or are excusive to america imo. It's a product of where western civilization, technology and globalism is taking us. Because this region we call the US happens to have more money and resources (whether naturally or unnaturally acquired) than most other places on the globe, we see more of what you're describing here. It has nothing to do with our character, nationality, "culture" or identity. People who become absorbed into the whole materialist pursuit will do so no matter what region they live in, where they come from or what allegiance they subscribe to. We've seen this trait since the beginning of history. This is not to say that geopolitical and economic power structures don't have influence over greed and corruption, just that making America (or any country for that matter) the boogeyman or inheritantly "something or another" is an illusion.

No. That'd mean the same would the case in EU. Which it isn't, imo. So there is an argument that this might be more an American culture thing than you'd like to admit. Imo, it's more a us-product than a western civilization product. And it's not some sort of inevitable direction the western civilization is moving towards. But I'm afraid that's hard, if not impossible, to see from a US point of view. Because to put it simply, I don't think people from the US are particularly sensitive to differences between western culture and us culture. To most americans its either the same, or something that the rest of western civilization is moving towards. Which is not the case. And to put it blunt, probably a case of us self-centeredness/ignorance. You should spend some time in canada, for instance. Or in te EU.

[Lane Visitor]

 

 

 

you're not doing anything but fanning the flames by being okay with singling out america. one of the biggest reasons humanity is fucking helpless with fixing our own problems and working together is because we're so goddamn addicted to pointing fingers and name calling, whether it's at others or ourselves-- both just as bad.

Why though? For real people are obsessed with money over here. I talk to people about what they're doing, about careers and it's always, I don't make enough money, I'm trying to get a better paying job, I want to get into an industry with a bigger starting salary. I bought the newer expensiver version of that thing you have, I'm buying the new iPhone as soon as it comes out, I don't buy used, I know riding the bus is better for the environment but I want to drive because I'm better than people who ride the bus, I want to eat where I can take cute selfies of my pretty food and might not even eat it, I need to see every big budget movie that comes out on opening day and I'm going to watch all the previews so I know about every other big budget movie coming out, I need the details of every single big product release, I must subscribe to every digital media service so I can watch a constant stream of new content.

Is it like that everywhere?

I didn't say shit about imperialism and all that. All's I'm sayin' ishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXE_n2q08Yw

I couldn't agree with you more on all of that. But these things don't define "who we are as Americans" or are excusive to america imo. It's a product of where western civilization, technology and globalism is taking us. Because this region we call the US happens to have more money and resources (whether naturally or unnaturally acquired) than most other places on the globe, we see more of what you're describing here. It has nothing to do with our character, nationality, "culture" or identity. People who become absorbed into the whole materialist pursuit will do so no matter what region they live in, where they come from or what allegiance they subscribe to. We've seen this trait since the beginning of history. This is not to say that geopolitical and economic power structures don't have influence over greed and corruption, just that making America (or any country for that matter) the boogeyman or inheritantly "something or another" is an illusion.

No. That'd mean the same would the case in EU. Which it isn't, imo. So there is an argument that this might be more an American culture thing than you'd like to admit. Imo, it's more a us-product than a western civilization product. And it's not some sort of inevitable direction the western civilization is moving towards. But I'm afraid that's hard, if not impossible, to see from a US point of view. Because to put it simply, I don't think people from the US are particularly sensitive to differences between western culture and us culture. To most americans its either the same, or something that the rest of western civilization is moving towards. Which is not the case. And to put it blunt, probably a case of us self-centeredness/ignorance. You should spend some time in canada, for instance. Or in te EU.

So non-US westerners in general don't strive to climb the corporate ladder, don't display their lives on social media, don't netflix and chill or get the latest apps? Lies.

[Zephyr_Nova]

This is called a Langos, and it's of Hungarian origin.  I agree that they are delicious though.

 

Frybread tho... mmm... delicious and immigrant-free.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Zephyr_Nova

[goDel]

 

 

 

 

you're not doing anything but fanning the flames by being okay with singling out america. one of the biggest reasons humanity is fucking helpless with fixing our own problems and working together is because we're so goddamn addicted to pointing fingers and name calling, whether it's at others or ourselves-- both just as bad.

Why though? For real people are obsessed with money over here. I talk to people about what they're doing, about careers and it's always, I don't make enough money, I'm trying to get a better paying job, I want to get into an industry with a bigger starting salary. I bought the newer expensiver version of that thing you have, I'm buying the new iPhone as soon as it comes out, I don't buy used, I know riding the bus is better for the environment but I want to drive because I'm better than people who ride the bus, I want to eat where I can take cute selfies of my pretty food and might not even eat it, I need to see every big budget movie that comes out on opening day and I'm going to watch all the previews so I know about every other big budget movie coming out, I need the details of every single big product release, I must subscribe to every digital media service so I can watch a constant stream of new content.

Is it like that everywhere?

I didn't say shit about imperialism and all that. All's I'm sayin' ishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXE_n2q08Yw

I couldn't agree with you more on all of that. But these things don't define "who we are as Americans" or are excusive to america imo. It's a product of where western civilization, technology and globalism is taking us. Because this region we call the US happens to have more money and resources (whether naturally or unnaturally acquired) than most other places on the globe, we see more of what you're describing here. It has nothing to do with our character, nationality, "culture" or identity. People who become absorbed into the whole materialist pursuit will do so no matter what region they live in, where they come from or what allegiance they subscribe to. We've seen this trait since the beginning of history. This is not to say that geopolitical and economic power structures don't have influence over greed and corruption, just that making America (or any country for that matter) the boogeyman or inheritantly "something or another" is an illusion.

No. That'd mean the same would the case in EU. Which it isn't, imo. So there is an argument that this might be more an American culture thing than you'd like to admit. Imo, it's more a us-product than a western civilization product. And it's not some sort of inevitable direction the western civilization is moving towards. But I'm afraid that's hard, if not impossible, to see from a US point of view. Because to put it simply, I don't think people from the US are particularly sensitive to differences between western culture and us culture. To most americans its either the same, or something that the rest of western civilization is moving towards. Which is not the case. And to put it blunt, probably a case of us self-centeredness/ignorance. You should spend some time in canada, for instance. Or in te EU.

So non-US westerners in general don't strive to climb the corporate ladder, don't display their lives on social media, don't netflix and chill or get the latest apps? Lies.

It's not a case of either/or. It's a case of differences. A corporate ladder, for example, is really a different thing in different cultures. The difference between US companies and EU companies, for instance, should be noted. Or perhaps more important, the rights and protections of employees. Simply because people in EU have more rights, the whole corporae ladder thing turns out like a different beast. Laws have a fundamental impact on culture.

Although I can see where you're coming from, and I do admit there was a point in time where western culture was moving towards us culture (awful generalisation, but useful for the sake of the argument). But that is not te case anymore. As a metaphor you can take the paris agreement. Or, as an example privacy laws. At the moment, the case could be made that us culture and western (eu) culture are diverging, rather than converging.

 

I think, for the sake of the argument, it's useful to take the local laws as a driver for the cultural phenomena we're observing. Different laws imply different cultures, to say the least. And the irony is that the current anti-globalism movement, especially in te us (note the discussion about the transatlantic agreements) helps creating this diversion in western cultures.

[Rubin Farr]

Can't aliens invade already??

 

[Leon Sumbitches]

Well said, goDel

[Amen Warrior]

Americans still don't "get" Intelligent Dance Music, even now 25 years after we created it. Even the ones that think they "get" it (ie the ones on this site) don't really get it. Hopeless.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Amen Warrior

[hello spiral]

Well said, amen warrior

[goDel]

Nicely put, spiral

[usagi]

well shat, godel

[cwmbrancity]

 

 

We are all fucking worse off for having participated in this discussion. Nationalism is bullshit, fuck being proud of your country.

 

 

i'll quote this the next time Inglan are in a footy tournament  ;)

 

to refine that line of criticism, most nationalism is based around 3 concepts - land, genetics & language

 

the Nazis were "blut und boden", the US Alt-Right recently quoted those very same lines etc

 

from that you get the obvious divergence between conservatives who are uber paranoid about closed borders etc and liberals veering towards open systems....see Brexit as a classic clusterfuck along these lines just like US repubs love the whole "build the wall" rant

 

the aspect i was trying to tease out thru alluding to archaeology and didnt emphasize enough while batting off the piss taking childrens, was something more nuanced that has nothing to do with nationalism or exclusion = a love of places, of local environments specifically national parks near here, local beaches, nearby mountain ranges, places i try & get into as much as possible to get away from people and de-stress, walk, take the shoe eating k9 out up on the escarpments, climb, equally the drive to & from with some good tunes on, simple pleasures

 

i dont see any issue with that & most mental health professionals advocate similar patterns of exploration as a way to de-stress, a similar approach even cropped up in the "1st world problems" thread when Ms Chaoz was considering moving to Scotland

 

did i see or appreciate these privileges when i was younger? fuck no, i couldnt WAIT to leave and move to Inglan (is a bitch), get that valleys meathead mindset out of my system & acid house def helped there

 

you wouldnt dismiss a 1st Nation indigenous American about their relationships to the natural world, it locations, places, mythologies, archaeology etc, so why is it any different for a European who loves their own environment, its myths and the deep time frames of its archaeology?

 

it really has fuck all do with nationalism, i felt the same way about the Shenandoah valley, Great Falls, Harpers Ferry et al, incredible mind expanding locations, even if i wasnt a citizen of that nation or an indigenous American who'd been separated from it thru European expansion, but get back in the city & you'd be back in the $$$-swamp which was & remains something altogether different & alien to life here

 

 

 

 

 

you're not doing anything but fanning the flames by being okay with singling out america. one of the biggest reasons humanity is fucking helpless with fixing our own problems and working together is because we're so goddamn addicted to pointing fingers and name calling, whether it's at others or ourselves-- both just as bad.

Why though? For real people are obsessed with money over here. I talk to people about what they're doing, about careers and it's always, I don't make enough money, I'm trying to get a better paying job, I want to get into an industry with a bigger starting salary. I bought the newer expensiver version of that thing you have, I'm buying the new iPhone as soon as it comes out, I don't buy used, I know riding the bus is better for the environment but I want to drive because I'm better than people who ride the bus, I want to eat where I can take cute selfies of my pretty food and might not even eat it, I need to see every big budget movie that comes out on opening day and I'm going to watch all the previews so I know about every other big budget movie coming out, I need the details of every single big product release, I must subscribe to every digital media service so I can watch a constant stream of new content.

Is it like that everywhere?

I didn't say shit about imperialism and all that. All's I'm sayin' is

I couldn't agree with you more on all of that. But these things don't define "who we are as Americans" or are excusive to america imo. It's a product of where western civilization, technology and globalism is taking us. Because this region we call the US happens to have more money and resources (whether naturally or unnaturally acquired) than most other places on the globe, we see more of what you're describing here. It has nothing to do with our character, nationality, "culture" or identity. People who become absorbed into the whole materialist pursuit will do so no matter what region they live in, where they come from or what allegiance they subscribe to. We've seen this trait since the beginning of history. This is not to say that geopolitical and economic power structures don't have influence over greed and corruption, just that making America (or any country for that matter) the boogeyman or inheritantly "something or another" is an illusion.

No. That'd mean the same would the case in EU. Which it isn't, imo. So there is an argument that this might be more an American culture thing than you'd like to admit. Imo, it's more a us-product than a western civilization product. And it's not some sort of inevitable direction the western civilization is moving towards. But I'm afraid that's hard, if not impossible, to see from a US point of view. Because to put it simply, I don't think people from the US are particularly sensitive to differences between western culture and us culture. To most americans its either the same, or something that the rest of western civilization is moving towards. Which is not the case. And to put it blunt, probably a case of us self-centeredness/ignorance. You should spend some time in canada, for instance. Or in te EU.

 

 

 

i forgive the non Twin Peaks love, articulate, concise & above all accurate

[auxien]

 

Yeah but what is American music? Cinema? Food?

Mostly the work of immigrants.

And that's why I'm glad to be American. We're a nation of many. E pluribus unum, bitches. 

 

At the same time I can be ashamed at its history, its very existence, that destroyed so many cultures. And I can be ashamed at the continuing horrors done in the name of the country. National pride is fine, imo, if it's balanced and realistic. 

[goDel]

Australia? Immigrants. Canada? Immigrants. South America? Also plenty of immigrants. South Africa? Yeah, immigrants! Hell, even Europe can be seen as a melting pot of cultures/immigrants. Really depends on where you pick your start of history, though.

 

You just keep on loving the US. It's all fine. Just put a little more thought into why you love it though. Lots of civilisations are the work of immigrants. 

[sweepstakes]

So there is an argument that this might be more an American culture thing than you'd like to admit. Imo, it's more a us-product than a western civilization product. And it's not some sort of inevitable direction the western civilization is moving towards. But I'm afraid that's hard, if not impossible, to see from a US point of view. Because to put it simply, I don't think people from the US are particularly sensitive to differences between western culture and us culture. To most americans its either the same, or something that the rest of western civilization is moving towards. Which is not the case. And to put it blunt, probably a case of us self-centeredness/ignorance. You should spend some time in canada, for instance. Or in te EU.

I even see the differences between Europeans and Americans culture on this site. If I may generalize, the Europeans are more even-tempered, less prone to getting defensive about perceived attacks on their identity. Their criticism is less directed at a perceived "other" and more open to anything - they seem to get more riled up when they think particular things are shite than someone saying their own (or their country's) stuff is shite. They are a bit more emotionally detached in discussions and provide more intellectual and historical arguments to back up their opinions rather than appeals to emotion or identity. Americans do seem generally more enthusiastic/passionate but it's often misdirected energy. Europeans also seem more empathic and less entitled in general; it often seems like Americans eschew empathy when it's inconvenient to their worldview and get angry when you express  empathy for "bad guys".

 

The thing about law/government having an impact on culture is a big one too. Sometimes the topic of the social safety net in Scandinavian countries will come up in offline discussions. The people I tend to align with politically will point out how much more happiness and quality of life they report, how their health care and social systems take care of their people. Others will point out that they're taxed 50% of their income to pay for this. Also some of my company's clients do international business and have to comply with EU privacy standards, and whenever that topic comes up I think gee, wouldn't it be nice if we had assurance that Facebook and the NSA didn't get to hang onto our mine-able data for all eternity?

[marf]

you have like 3 good idm producers in the uk, always have, and they lifted it from Detroit. So don't give me that shit

Edited October 5, 2017 by marf

[marf]

brits also think they invented punk rock which thy didn't. You have a rivalry with a country that doesn't care about u

[Lada Laika]

I'm not even proud to be a human, much less a citizen of the U.S.

[zaphod]

I'm not even proud to be a human, much less a citizen of the U.S.

 

now we're talkin

[auxien]

 

I'm not even proud to be a human, much less a citizen of the U.S.

 

now we're talkin

 

yeah okay so that's fair too lol

[cwmbrancity]

 

So there is an argument that this might be more an American culture thing than you'd like to admit. Imo, it's more a us-product than a western civilization product. And it's not some sort of inevitable direction the western civilization is moving towards. But I'm afraid that's hard, if not impossible, to see from a US point of view. Because to put it simply, I don't think people from the US are particularly sensitive to differences between western culture and us culture. To most americans its either the same, or something that the rest of western civilization is moving towards. Which is not the case. And to put it blunt, probably a case of us self-centeredness/ignorance. You should spend some time in canada, for instance. Or in te EU.

I even see the differences between Europeans and Americans culture on this site. If I may generalize, the Europeans are more even-tempered, less prone to getting defensive about perceived attacks on their identity. Their criticism is less directed at a perceived "other" and more open to anything - they seem to get more riled up when they think particular things are shite than someone saying their own (or their country's) stuff is shite. They are a bit more emotionally detached in discussions and provide more intellectual and historical arguments to back up their opinions rather than appeals to emotion or identity. Americans do seem generally more enthusiastic/passionate but it's often misdirected energy. Europeans also seem more empathic and less entitled in general; it often seems like Americans eschew empathy when it's inconvenient to their worldview and get angry when you express  empathy for "bad guys".

 

The thing about law/government having an impact on culture is a big one too. Sometimes the topic of the social safety net in Scandinavian countries will come up in offline discussions. The people I tend to align with politically will point out how much more happiness and quality of life they report, how their health care and social systems take care of their people. Others will point out that they're taxed 50% of their income to pay for this. Also some of my company's clients do international business and have to comply with EU privacy standards, and whenever that topic comes up I think gee, wouldn't it be nice if we had assurance that Facebook and the NSA didn't get to hang onto our mine-able data for all eternity?

 

 

 

the US might be too large a population to match Scandi-models & Republicans would sooner die with their cold dead fingers on rifles than such insane socialist pinko provocation, maybe @ state level although your basic income tax rate is about 30% from memory? thats an awful lot of tax revenue/disposable govt income, at least Barry tried to shift the healthcare paradigm & move funds from the public purse toward those needs (even while perpetuating drone warfare on Pakistan etc)

 

the social security net of specific benefits def helps, particularly when the world is only just recovering from the 2008 crash, and that might play a significant role in shaping US financial logic....it was quoted to me in terms of "why should i pay my neighbour's mortgage?"....how can you counter that kind of entrenched perspective?

 

equally, there is a "benefits culture" that has developed in Britain since the 70's, might not be the most popular opinion & there will be those that associate such an opinion with Tory politics because they've taken a hatchet to our welfare system, people end up getting caught in the middle with benefit sanctions, bs Jobs Club attendances, the rise in food banks being accessed.....its a complex problem because key regions here have been genuinely scarred by post-industrial decline & no political representation has managed to resolve this endemic problem beyond wanky proclamation's like Gideon Osborne's "Northern Power-House" scheme or the uber expensive and unproven HS2 rail upgrade planned for the midlands and northern cities

 

its proper funny though, being cat-called as a nationalist because of a fondness for home & its environment, all because identifying money worship with a specific nation is disagreeable to some, so thank-you for the level-headed & thoughtful sound-boarding on this subject which at least some US citizens can identify with, the youlube tunes were just for the craic

 

ps: trade you a parcel of Bob Evans b&g portions for, errrrr, uggghhhhh, errrrrm, some stale cold fish & chips & a few Coil rarities