melancholera Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Islamists needs a sense of humor ffs.plsyeah was gonna say... extremism =/= islam two different concepts. but this is islamic extremism, not pacifist extremism. it doesn't make sense to pretend like those are completely separate spheres. What a succinct way to put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baph Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 They should totes rebrand Islamic Extremism as "Islame" IMO amirite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Visitor Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 lol yeah cause the majority of Christians in the states don't believe that the world wasn't created by an almighty omnipotent being 7,000 years ago. Hey science, fuck you. Evolution? Go take a flying fucking leap you heathen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution#Public_support "A study published in Science compared attitudes about evolution in the United States, 32 European countries (including Turkey) and Japan. The only country where acceptance of evolution was lower than in the United States was Turkey (25%)." Wouldn't in make more sense to actually just stop believing in fairy tales? No, let's try and get 1.6 billion people to try and "re-brand" their religion, instead of denounce the tiny percentage that make up the extremists. Yeah but those "tiny extremists" have clearly created division and war between civilizations and have put the entire religion on the world stage as something they "own". Not fair or right and it sucks, but it's what the reality is. And im blasting racist bigots as much as extremists here. When moderate muslims publish responses, why do you continue to ignore their ownership of the religion? Because the majority of people on Earth are dumb, and they need it spelled out for them. Most people are not going to grasp the "complex" aspect that what these extremists and terrorists are doing and getting attention for in the name of their religion isn't actually relevant to the majority of moderate peace-loving Muslims. It's about PR. Isn't that what religion is in terms of language? A symbol and way to organize someones beliefs. Creating/preserving/improving/teaching/communicating what a religion means to someone and how those beliefs translate is what dialogue, exchange and community is all about. Look, I'm not suggesting that people abandon their faith-- quite the opposite- preserve it and stand for the good parts of it- by redefining, rebranding and reform. That's what philosophy is all about- building upon, changing words names around, like science. Sure, conservative strains of every religion are always going to stay- because theyre literal interpretations, but aint nothin wrong with honing in on specific beliefs and creating new communities within your community at large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autopilot Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Why do we still have religion apologists in 2015? Come on, people, if you're intelligent enough to be able to operate a computer you should know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braintree Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 People will dream up pretty much any reason to murder each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xox Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 but the silence of moderate communities is deafening. After every event like this there normally are a pile of condemnations from Muslim community groups, leaders, nations etc - maybe the "silence" is actually a relative lack of publicity? edit: what BCM said The silence is definitely from lack of publicity: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kamran-pasha/the-big-lie-about-muslim_b_188991.html (note this article is from 2009!) http://www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/muslims-are-speaking-out-against-isis-to-say-you-do-not-repr#.em8jNvg6W http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/08/21/muslim-leaders-have-roundly-denounced-islamic-s/200498 http://foreignpolicyblogs.com/2014/10/10/moderate-muslims-speak-out-against-terrorism/ Of course one of the issues is also that the majority of Muslims don't speak English as a first (or probably even second) language, so we don't get to hear their voices as well. Salman Rushdie got it right though: but notice what he said - "Religion is the root of the issue". Not Islam, not Christianity, not zionism, not Buddhism, but religion. And it's true, any time religion is co-opted for nationalist use, that's when it becomes a problem. Like I was mentioning in the previous post, that's encouraging and great, and yes I have seen that. But wouldn't it make sense for the majority of moderates to re-brand their religion, to diversify viewpoints, to create new communities, to change the words/symbols/names? To clearly and poignantly make major moves that help them stand out from the chaos and hijacking? This is what happened with the church in the past. How many sects of Christianity are there now? Here's the thing... Puritanical fanatical literalist beliefs of early Christians were opposed by so many moderate Christians who eventually broke tradition and said fuck this, and created their own versions of the religion by changing the names/sects. Sure, they still loosely called themselves Christians, but there was a new identity.... Doesn't that seem like a smart and healthy idea for the general Islamic populous...? please read my respond to you. you have to know more about islam. you'll see that it'd be better exact the opposite for islam. No yeah i totally saw your response, and it kinda came across as a weird attempt to try and school someone who doesn't know about religions. But this is not about what the Koran says or about prophets or verses, etc.. I'm talking about political movements. Rejecting the church to embrace secularism was a political movement. I never said that this never occurred in Islam as a whole, because I'm very sure you could inform me that it did on hundreds of occasions. I'm strictly talking creating a brand new sect of beliefs under the branch of Islam that purposely takes out lines from the Koran, changes things, adds things and then empowers the people to OVERTHROW oppressive regimes indefinitely and makes those new reformations a reality to the point when an Islamist extremist murders a classroom full of children in Nigeria, there is zero debate about Islam is this or Islam is that.. because in this hypothetical movement and revolution and age of reform, it's equivalent to the way the world reacts when we see Christian Identity or KKK or Westboro Baptist church in the headlines... people clearly laugh away acts that those said groups get away with because other moderate demoninations (aka the majority of modern day Christians) have CLEARLY distanced from the barbaric aspects of their religion as a whole through..... REBRANDING. but you can find racist lines in the bible, where are those in quran? where does it says in the quran to kill innocent ppl or ppl of other race or religion except in an self-defense war? and still it says to stop the war if the opponent wants that no matter what. i'm telling you, you don't know enough about islam nor about other religions enough to judge correctly and i'm sorry if this offenses you but lies are what bothers this world the most. every evil in the world so far came from lies. those extremists believe in lies and see what happened. if violence is in the roots of any big religion it would be eradicated by now cause people would change it or abandoned it, cause majority of people are peaceful and good. but of course, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melancholera Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 i'm afraid the stupid few have tarnished islam to the point of it now unfortunately being the problem. it's not the fault of islam or the vast majority of it's followers, but islam is the one common denominator in all of this...it's been ruined for the majority by the violent minority. maybe this was the plan all along...i do think that there has not been enough publicised detraction of any of these acts by the moderate islamic community however...had they been more vocal (or had their detractions been more widely publicised perhaps) from the beginning of all this, then i think more people would view islam in a kindly light. You never see moderate Islam protests in the street against this kind of thing. Funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xox Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Because the majority of people on Earth are dumb and terrorists are the dumbest faks in the known universe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Visitor Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 but the silence of moderate communities is deafening. After every event like this there normally are a pile of condemnations from Muslim community groups, leaders, nations etc - maybe the "silence" is actually a relative lack of publicity? edit: what BCM said The silence is definitely from lack of publicity: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kamran-pasha/the-big-lie-about-muslim_b_188991.html (note this article is from 2009!) http://www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/muslims-are-speaking-out-against-isis-to-say-you-do-not-repr#.em8jNvg6W http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/08/21/muslim-leaders-have-roundly-denounced-islamic-s/200498 http://foreignpolicyblogs.com/2014/10/10/moderate-muslims-speak-out-against-terrorism/ Of course one of the issues is also that the majority of Muslims don't speak English as a first (or probably even second) language, so we don't get to hear their voices as well. Salman Rushdie got it right though: but notice what he said - "Religion is the root of the issue". Not Islam, not Christianity, not zionism, not Buddhism, but religion. And it's true, any time religion is co-opted for nationalist use, that's when it becomes a problem. Like I was mentioning in the previous post, that's encouraging and great, and yes I have seen that. But wouldn't it make sense for the majority of moderates to re-brand their religion, to diversify viewpoints, to create new communities, to change the words/symbols/names? To clearly and poignantly make major moves that help them stand out from the chaos and hijacking? This is what happened with the church in the past. How many sects of Christianity are there now? Here's the thing... Puritanical fanatical literalist beliefs of early Christians were opposed by so many moderate Christians who eventually broke tradition and said fuck this, and created their own versions of the religion by changing the names/sects. Sure, they still loosely called themselves Christians, but there was a new identity.... Doesn't that seem like a smart and healthy idea for the general Islamic populous...? please read my respond to you. you have to know more about islam. you'll see that it'd be better exact the opposite for islam. No yeah i totally saw your response, and it kinda came across as a weird attempt to try and school someone who doesn't know about religions. But this is not about what the Koran says or about prophets or verses, etc.. I'm talking about political movements. Rejecting the church to embrace secularism was a political movement. I never said that this never occurred in Islam as a whole, because I'm very sure you could inform me that it did on hundreds of occasions. I'm strictly talking creating a brand new sect of beliefs under the branch of Islam that purposely takes out lines from the Koran, changes things, adds things and then empowers the people to OVERTHROW oppressive regimes indefinitely and makes those new reformations a reality to the point when an Islamist extremist murders a classroom full of children in Nigeria, there is zero debate about Islam is this or Islam is that.. because in this hypothetical movement and revolution and age of reform, it's equivalent to the way the world reacts when we see Christian Identity or KKK or Westboro Baptist church in the headlines... people clearly laugh away acts that those said groups get away with because other moderate demoninations (aka the majority of modern day Christians) have CLEARLY distanced from the barbaric aspects of their religion as a whole through..... REBRANDING. but you can find racist lines in the bible, where are those in quran? where does it says in the quran to kill innocent ppl or ppl of other race or religion except in an self-defense war? and still it says to stop the war if the opponent wants that no matter what. i'm telling you, you don't know enough about islam nor about other religions enough to judge correctly and i'm sorry if this offenses you but lies are what bothers this world the most. every evil in the world so far came from lies. those extremists believe in lies and see what happened. if violence is in the roots of any big religion it would be eradicated by now cause people would change it or abandoned it, cause majority of people are peaceful and good. but of course, IMHO. You can find violent, racist, hateful, misogynist, sexist and all kinds of horrible disgusting language in all of the holy texts of the 3 main world religions, you can also find beautiful things in all of them.. that proves or disproves nothing... it's about actions more so than words, it's about how those aspects can be used to better or worsen the world... religious texts are like knives- can be used for cooking the most delicious healthy meals and for creation and building, or it can be used for destruction and chaos. aaaand.. what reform in religion does is highlight specific lines in those said holy texts that are beautiful and shrugs off other lines of text that are less favorable and passes them off as antiquated and no longer relevant in a modern world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xox Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 but the silence of moderate communities is deafening. After every event like this there normally are a pile of condemnations from Muslim community groups, leaders, nations etc - maybe the "silence" is actually a relative lack of publicity? edit: what BCM said The silence is definitely from lack of publicity: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kamran-pasha/the-big-lie-about-muslim_b_188991.html (note this article is from 2009!) http://www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/muslims-are-speaking-out-against-isis-to-say-you-do-not-repr#.em8jNvg6W http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/08/21/muslim-leaders-have-roundly-denounced-islamic-s/200498 http://foreignpolicyblogs.com/2014/10/10/moderate-muslims-speak-out-against-terrorism/ Of course one of the issues is also that the majority of Muslims don't speak English as a first (or probably even second) language, so we don't get to hear their voices as well. Salman Rushdie got it right though: but notice what he said - "Religion is the root of the issue". Not Islam, not Christianity, not zionism, not Buddhism, but religion. And it's true, any time religion is co-opted for nationalist use, that's when it becomes a problem. Like I was mentioning in the previous post, that's encouraging and great, and yes I have seen that. But wouldn't it make sense for the majority of moderates to re-brand their religion, to diversify viewpoints, to create new communities, to change the words/symbols/names? To clearly and poignantly make major moves that help them stand out from the chaos and hijacking? This is what happened with the church in the past. How many sects of Christianity are there now? Here's the thing... Puritanical fanatical literalist beliefs of early Christians were opposed by so many moderate Christians who eventually broke tradition and said fuck this, and created their own versions of the religion by changing the names/sects. Sure, they still loosely called themselves Christians, but there was a new identity.... Doesn't that seem like a smart and healthy idea for the general Islamic populous...? please read my respond to you. you have to know more about islam. you'll see that it'd be better exact the opposite for islam. No yeah i totally saw your response, and it kinda came across as a weird attempt to try and school someone who doesn't know about religions. But this is not about what the Koran says or about prophets or verses, etc.. I'm talking about political movements. Rejecting the church to embrace secularism was a political movement. I never said that this never occurred in Islam as a whole, because I'm very sure you could inform me that it did on hundreds of occasions. I'm strictly talking creating a brand new sect of beliefs under the branch of Islam that purposely takes out lines from the Koran, changes things, adds things and then empowers the people to OVERTHROW oppressive regimes indefinitely and makes those new reformations a reality to the point when an Islamist extremist murders a classroom full of children in Nigeria, there is zero debate about Islam is this or Islam is that.. because in this hypothetical movement and revolution and age of reform, it's equivalent to the way the world reacts when we see Christian Identity or KKK or Westboro Baptist church in the headlines... people clearly laugh away acts that those said groups get away with because other moderate demoninations (aka the majority of modern day Christians) have CLEARLY distanced from the barbaric aspects of their religion as a whole through..... REBRANDING. but you can find racist lines in the bible, where are those in quran? where does it says in the quran to kill innocent ppl or ppl of other race or religion except in an self-defense war? and still it says to stop the war if the opponent wants that no matter what. i'm telling you, you don't know enough about islam nor about other religions enough to judge correctly and i'm sorry if this offenses you but lies are what bothers this world the most. every evil in the world so far came from lies. those extremists believe in lies and see what happened. if violence is in the roots of any big religion it would be eradicated by now cause people would change it or abandoned it, cause majority of people are peaceful and good. but of course, IMHO. You can find violent, racist, hateful, misogynist, sexist and all kinds of horrible disgusting language in all of the holy texts of the 3 main world religions, you can also find beautiful things in all of them.. that proves or disproves nothing... it's about actions more so than words, it's about how those aspects can be used to better or worsen the world... religious texts are like knives- can be used for cooking the most delicious healthy meals and for creation and building, or it can be used for destruction and chaos. aaaand.. what reform in religion does is highlight specific lines in those said holy texts that are beautiful and shrugs off other lines of text that are less favorable and passes them off as antiquated and no longer relevant in a modern world. well, i'm pretty sure those terrorists haven't read quran nor anything muhammed has said. that's the problem, not the other way around. they have been poisoned by someone evil enough. "evil never sleeps!" - g.w.bush ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Visitor Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 ^ im pretty sure extremists and terrorists are quite the opposite and are mostly the way they are due to an extreme overdose of religious scripture in the most fanatical literal interpretation possible, so yes, im pretty sure they have read the quaran quite a few times. of course, they havent gotten anything meaningful or "true" out of it, just the dark and violent sides. like the way a mentally unstable person reciting scripture on a street corner sure as hell knows his verses IN DEPTH. doesn't mean he understands how to extrapolate the positive meaningful fruitful parts of his holy book. he's probably using it to curse homosexuals and cast out sinners lol.. same with Islamic extremists and terrorists.. It is sure as hell religion-related-- extremism is like religion on steroids- lots of it. praying day and night, reciting verses, brainwashing others with scriptures and laws and rules. so this whole thing that is has nothing to do with religion is the most preposterous, surreal, absurd and straight up reality-denying lol-able position to hold. now, of course it's not ONLY about religion.. AND it's not about religion in general.. it's about fanatical ideology existing within specific religious culture- which currently, Islamic extremism is a major contributor of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCM Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 i think this thread has many interesting viewpoints which has given me a lot of food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 lol yeah cause the majority of Christians in the states don't believe that the world wasn't created by an almighty omnipotent being 7,000 years ago. Hey science, fuck you. Evolution? Go take a flying fucking leap you heathen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution#Public_support "A study published in Science compared attitudes about evolution in the United States, 32 European countries (including Turkey) and Japan. The only country where acceptance of evolution was lower than in the United States was Turkey (25%)." Wouldn't in make more sense to actually just stop believing in fairy tales? No, let's try and get 1.6 billion people to try and "re-brand" their religion, instead of denounce the tiny percentage that make up the extremists. Yeah but those "tiny extremists" have clearly created division and war between civilizations and have put the entire religion on the world stage as something they "own". Not fair or right and it sucks, but it's what the reality is. And im blasting racist bigots as much as extremists here. When moderate muslims publish responses, why do you continue to ignore their ownership of the religion? Because the majority of people on Earth are dumb, and they need it spelled out for them. Most people are not going to grasp the "complex" aspect that what these extremists and terrorists are doing and getting attention for in the name of their religion isn't actually relevant to the majority of moderate peace-loving Muslims. It's about PR. Isn't that what religion is in terms of language? A symbol and way to organize someones beliefs. Creating/preserving/improving/teaching/communicating what a religion means to someone and how those beliefs translate is what dialogue, exchange and community is all about. Look, I'm not suggesting that people abandon their faith-- quite the opposite- preserve it and stand for the good parts of it- by redefining, rebranding and reform. That's what philosophy is all about- building upon, changing words names around, like science. Sure, conservative strains of every religion are always going to stay- because theyre literal interpretations, but aint nothin wrong with honing in on specific beliefs and creating new communities within your community at large. What do you think those links I posted are all about? Moderates distancing themselves from the extremists - highlighting the beautiful parts. i'm afraid the stupid few have tarnished islam to the point of it now unfortunately being the problem. it's not the fault of islam or the vast majority of it's followers, but islam is the one common denominator in all of this...it's been ruined for the majority by the violent minority. maybe this was the plan all along...i do think that there has not been enough publicised detraction of any of these acts by the moderate islamic community however...had they been more vocal (or had their detractions been more widely publicised perhaps) from the beginning of all this, then i think more people would view islam in a kindly light. You never see moderate Islam protests in the street against this kind of thing. Funny. Did you bother reading the links I posted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perezvon Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 Religion, a mediaeval form of unreason Fucking hell, stop telling people who have belief that they're backward. Just stop. You're the one being fucking mediaeval here saying that kind of bullshit. People live their lives as they wish, and that includes respecting a few guidelines that are written in some old books that are not shameful in any way. I'm not religious myself yet I find this kind of remarks makes of atheists the most arrogant pricks ever. Most religious people are more respectable than we are. Anyway that's it. I've been waiting for some time for the sparkle that would trigger the moment when we all fight each other. It has been brewing for some time, now it has started for good. For now people here gather and act as if they all loved each other in that awful moment but I know for sure that deep inside they already hate muslims. The seed has been planted. The future scares me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autopilot Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Anyone who needs a thousand-of-years-old book or a man on a podium to tell them not to kill or rape is an idiot and should probably be pre-emptively locked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Visitor Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 lol yeah cause the majority of Christians in the states don't believe that the world wasn't created by an almighty omnipotent being 7,000 years ago. Hey science, fuck you. Evolution? Go take a flying fucking leap you heathen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution#Public_support "A study published in Science compared attitudes about evolution in the United States, 32 European countries (including Turkey) and Japan. The only country where acceptance of evolution was lower than in the United States was Turkey (25%)." Wouldn't in make more sense to actually just stop believing in fairy tales? No, let's try and get 1.6 billion people to try and "re-brand" their religion, instead of denounce the tiny percentage that make up the extremists. Yeah but those "tiny extremists" have clearly created division and war between civilizations and have put the entire religion on the world stage as something they "own". Not fair or right and it sucks, but it's what the reality is. And im blasting racist bigots as much as extremists here. When moderate muslims publish responses, why do you continue to ignore their ownership of the religion? Because the majority of people on Earth are dumb, and they need it spelled out for them. Most people are not going to grasp the "complex" aspect that what these extremists and terrorists are doing and getting attention for in the name of their religion isn't actually relevant to the majority of moderate peace-loving Muslims. It's about PR. Isn't that what religion is in terms of language? A symbol and way to organize someones beliefs. Creating/preserving/improving/teaching/communicating what a religion means to someone and how those beliefs translate is what dialogue, exchange and community is all about. Look, I'm not suggesting that people abandon their faith-- quite the opposite- preserve it and stand for the good parts of it- by redefining, rebranding and reform. That's what philosophy is all about- building upon, changing words names around, like science. Sure, conservative strains of every religion are always going to stay- because theyre literal interpretations, but aint nothin wrong with honing in on specific beliefs and creating new communities within your community at large. What do you think those links I posted are all about? Moderates distancing themselves from the extremists - highlighting the beautiful parts. Protests and gatherings are great, but I want to hear the phrase Islam come up more often in the media, my community, the communities around me, as it relates to a new a vision of religious reform, revolution, of fighting intolerance and oppression and creating new paradigms. I want to see Wikipedia articles/pages called "Reform Islam" or other similar terms with super lengthy pages- rather than this one small page of a few general reform movements i just found: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_movements_within_Islam I want mates like xox or chen to hear when i say the phrase "reform" to think of it as a positive thing for the religion as a whole. Every major religion has had their reform movements of epic proportions. Why should one religion be exempt? It's not a bad thing, it would improve the conditions of followers of the Muslim faith, as well as the general understanding from the rest of the world if there was more debate, innovation, and wiggle room for creativity. Why do I feel like I'm proposing something ignorant by saying this? Doesn't the aspect of progressive thought, liberalism and secularism resonate with human connection and society of the modern age? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitze Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 This shit is getting darker and darker day by day and it needs stamped out. Are these scuzballs so well organized that they can commit murders in daylight on a weekly basis then disappear as if nothing has happened? Yes It appears so. They are getting away with it, i'm sure intelligence is being gathered and the brave men of the Navy Seals will try and snap this evil off at the root, but how long will that take? These lowlifes need wiped off the face of the fucking planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubin Farr Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Islamists needs a sense of humor ffs.plsyeah was gonna say... extremism =/= islam two different concepts. but this is islamic extremism, not pacifist extremism. it doesn't make sense to pretend like those are completely separate spheres. Islamists and Muslims are two different things to me. Muslims love peace, and their god. They recognize Abraham, Moses and Jesus as prophets as well. These aren't Muslims, they are bastardizing that religion for their own purposes. Just like Westboro Church aren't Christians, they're Fundamentalist Extremists. But we can play semantics and terminology games all day. And the gun man left his ID in the getaway car? That's some good planning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logakght Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Why do we still have religion apologists in 2015? Come on, people, if you're intelligent enough to be able to operate a computer you should know better. I get angry when people try to justify this kind of attacks with "everybody should respect religions". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 can't wait for the brave souls like Matt and Trey Parker who protest against Islam to feel all self righteous and heroic again for a little bit edit: but it's truly fascinating to watch the Generation Vice folks hysterical over ISIS chiming into this thread with virtually identical talking points to washington DC think tanks. *slow clap* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 woah dewd they're refusing to show the cartoons on foxnews! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Mughnus Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 woah dewd they're refusing to show the cartoons on foxnews! why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitze Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 truly fascinating to watch the Generation Vice folks hysterical over ISIS chiming into this thread with virtually identical talking points to washington DC think tanks. *slow clap* If you were sitting in Washington right now how would you deal with this? Play the waiting game? Or negotiate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logakght Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 believe me we have to fix the problems in our society before we can even think about messing with another even more. we all live on the same planet and the issue of jihadist extremism is very closely related to how we treat the rest of the world. most people in america, uk, europe...hell everywhere...they want good things for others. most people in the world want peace. the people we foolishly elect are often part of the minority who believe peace is a hippy dippy concept and we have 'real issues' to deal with. they only want more for themselves, and they rise to positions of power because that attitude drives the actions that land them in powerful places in the first place. it's no coincidence that all the people who should be in politics get scared out within the first few years. once people finally wise up to how they are lied to and exploited by their own representatives we can take more control and work on establishing better connections with the rest of the world. the solution is not for the western world to mess with the middle east more and more. it's tricky because i am all for defending civilians in that region from isis but i can only imagine the strategy the us is taking is one of extreme self interest... exactly the sort of thing i am talking about oh yeah, don't think i'm not mad at the fucktards who did this either. i would love to do all sorts of horrible things that i won't post here, but it wouldn't be a very constructive use of time. I think that's impossible. It's human nature, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Visitor Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Islamists needs a sense of humor ffs.plsyeah was gonna say... extremism =/= islam two different concepts. but this is islamic extremism, not pacifist extremism. it doesn't make sense to pretend like those are completely separate spheres.Islamists and Muslims are two different things to me. Muslims love peace, and their god. They recognize Abraham, Moses and Jesus as prophets as well. These aren't Muslims, they are bastardizing that religion for their own purposes. Just like Westboro Church aren't Christians, they're Fundamentalist Extremists. But we can play semantics and terminology games all day. And the gun man left his ID in the getaway car? That's some good planning! thank you for saving me the time. stop tarring everyone with the same brush. it misses how diverse the issues of our world out. it's taking the the easy way out to just say 'islam is the problem and we need to reform it' how about we reform the society that treats a war based on a lie as something you can get away with. it blows my mind that the status quo is so unbelievably right wing and hawkish that cheney is a free man. all you need to do is look at how he was the former ceo of a company that benefitted hugely from the iraq war. that is corruption, no ifs and no buts. never mind the torture (sorry, enhanced interrogation) and all that. that fact alone is enough to land you in jail with some giant dude balls deep in your tiny white cowardly crack. but nope, it's all okie doke and we're going to allow it. just like we'll allow reagan to fund violent viking like rapists because they hate the commies too. maybe we need to reform the people that think islam is the root of the issue. Not sure if that was related to my posts but i never said islam is the root of the issue... I said or at least implied that radical Islam is a major factor of extremism & terror. Radical forms of Islam & extremists are certainly separate from Islam as a whole and most Muslims... (Man it gets tiring typing that over and over , having to assure ppl that im not an ignorant fuck)... Cant it be said that certain cultures or the religious infrastructure of certain societies could benefit from change, progress, reform or liberal political movements? I find it funny that the world can lambast and utterly destroy the image of say Christianity as a WHOLE and mock Christians on a daily basis and thats shoulder-shruggable but I cant even mutter a word about an abstract notion of liberal reform as a suggestion in strict Islamic cultures without a knee jerk defensive response. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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