AE_Live 2022

[jaderpansen]

whatever happened to everyone just listening to what they enjoy and leaving the rest? jeesh.

50 minutes ago, dcom said:

That "leave it for a year" quip is condescending bullshit, elitist truehead bragging that you "get it" while others don't ("I didn't mean it like that" defence notwithstanding). You can habituate and acclimate to anything with enough repetition; I know this because I've done it numerous times, and some of it has been Autechre - but it doesn't mean that I actually like something, it's just become familiar enough for me not to dislike it.

actually kinda* agree, on the other hand there's no need to get pompous about being among the chosen few who "get" stuff's actually crap and everyone else is just fooling themselves (not pointed at you directly).

(*i like to compare the matter to differing opinions in general: you're more inclined to give second thoughts about something you disagree with coming from someone you're on the same page on usually. that kinda "vertrauensvorsprung" in itself isn't autosuggestive imo)

there's more than enough ae tracks i don't like, like fermium and flh, i just think they're a bit on the goofy side. so what.

[dcom]

38 minutes ago, jaderpansen said:

whatever happened to everyone just listening to what they enjoy and leaving the rest?

If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all? On a discussion site about music?

Edited September 23, 2023 by dcom

[auxien]

just here to see if Wurst has another breakdown about not liking some AE and throws a tirade and quits WATMM again

jkjk Wurst i hope you just yknow, don't listen to it. if you don't like something or think it sucks, go off about it that's cool, who cares. AE aren't a golden cow for worship. i still think elseq was 90% blah. 

anyway i'm still loving the 2022 live sets i think they're fuckin stellar. can see criticisms tho, and it's sure as shit not for everyone.

[IOS]

there is nothing condescending or pompous about ignatius' "leave it for a year" suggestion, I am sure of it. It's what I also do when I listen to something I'm not "used to" e.g., I might play Bach fugues/sonatas on the harpsichord/piano, or Schoenberg atonal stuff, Nancarrow, Tristan Murail, Gerard Grisey etc, you get the point. After a few minutes I might think "let's leave this on the side for the time being". I'm not jumping into "i like this / I don't like this" conclusions, neither do I feel the urgency or obligation to formalise a judgement/reaction.

 

[decibal cooper]

That's interesting to mention Shoenberg. I never could find enjoyment in his music but his writings on music and harmony are wonderful, with a lot of fun philosophical musings couched between the stuff about technique. He talked about how the first harmony in ancient times was just people singing in unison, and gradually the octave, then fifths, then thirds and finally more dissonant tones are introduced to the harmony, but when the dissonances first appear it gives listeners pause and time is needed before their ears can get used to it. Of course they may very well still dislike it once there is familiarity, but I have had similar thoughts with Autechre's music. This is speaking beside the point of value judgements for the new live material, but in the past I have given their music good faith listens, knowing at the outset that I would not enjoy it as much as music I already love, with the ulterior motive that exposure to the sounds would broaden and perhaps change my perception of rhythm and harmony.

[cern]

20 minutes ago, auxien said:

if you don't like something or think it sucks, go off about it that's cool, who cares

Yeah this, but somehow it is still pretty okay to talk about it that Is why this sub-forum exists and since everyone is having an opinion it is cool. 
It is interesting when smart asses speculate around mathematical terms and algorithms connections with Ae's music 

[jaderpansen]

1 hour ago, dcom said:

If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all? On a discussion site about music?

naaaah, hate that "good vibes only" mindset, shat all over "all end" myself when it came out eg, also discussed how PLUS felt like an outtake collection to me etc.

i have no problem with stating unpopular opinions whatsoevs, what i meant is the tendency to read more into it than being just that: opinions. like it's "objectively" wrong to like or dislike this or that because it's "unsound" in some psychological way, y'know "if you weren't delusional you'd see my opinion is actually right blah".

i mean it's fucking music, not maths or ethics or whatever. dunno.

do go on.

40 minutes ago, auxien said:

i still think elseq was 90% blah.

fuck off!

[Ivan Ooze]

[IOS]

Meanwhile, in a not so distant universe:

 

[Satans Little Helper]

On 9/21/2023 at 9:07 PM, dcom said:

2022 Helsinki was my third Autechre in-person live gig, and I've been a fan for 30 years, but I think it's starting to fade in a very similar way - but for different reasons - my RDJ fandom began to shrivel not long after Analord. I do love Autechre and they've been the longest constant in my extrapersonal music life; SIGN and PLUS are amazing and brought their more contemporary output back to focus for me, but I have so much other music in my life that I can't be arsed to listen to things that require way too much repetition for me to acclimate to. Don't get me wrong, I (mostly) prefer musical complexity over naivete (which minimalism is not), but I've never liked pseudorandom rhythmic noise. I'm glad that there are people who do.

This worries me a bit because the last time I went to AE-gigs (around 2005) those experiences helped me appreciate their then-current music more. Untilted is one of those albums. Listening to Untilted at home initially, I thought it was a bit dry. It was AE going techno. But after seeing them live, I started to appreciate it more. In a live setting, it has a different impact. The context changes the music.

But reading your experiences, I wonder whether I'll be able to appreciate these live sets more. Because I kind of agree with you. These sets don't click with me. There are some bits and pieces I can enjoy, but only for a short amount of time. After a while, the music starts to become obnoxious and annoying. It's very demanding without a reward. And I simply have to skip. And if having listened to them live doesn't help, I don't know what will.

[dcom]

1 hour ago, jaderpansen said:

naaaah, hate that "good vibes only" mindset

I was yanking your chain with that, but I'm also peeved that there isn't any balance between appreciative and critical views, it's mostly just us fans going bonkers over everything that the canonical WATMM artists put out; but then again, WATMM is grounded in our fandom of these artists, so no surprises there - but with the overall level of intelligence and rhetorical ability I'm always expecting more than just "ooh did you hear that."

Edited September 23, 2023 by dcom

[dcom]

3 hours ago, IOS said:

there is nothing condescending or pompous about ignatius' "leave it for a year" suggestion, I am sure of it.

I meant to criticize the notion in general without pointing a finger at anyone in particular, as it was echoed by others, too. I also stated that I'm very familiar with acclimatizing to things with repetition, and I know it works, but advising others to do it is easily interpreted as condescending, especially within the context of a highly specialized discussion forum like WATMM. A lot of music we listen to and discuss can be considered difficult enough to warrant repeated exposure, so doling it out as advice is, well, duh.

Based on that, yes, I coulda shoulda woulda taken the quips in good faith, but that ship's sailed now.

Edited September 23, 2023 by dcom

[ignatius]

6 hours ago, dcom said:

That "leave it for a year" quip is condescending bullshit, elitist truehead bragging that you "get it" while others don't ("I didn't mean it like that" defence notwithstanding). You can habituate and acclimate to anything with enough repetition; I know this because I've done it numerous times, and some of it has been Autechre - but it doesn't mean that I actually like something, it's just become familiar enough for me not to dislike it.

nah man.. not being condescending.. i've left shit for a year or two before because i didn't get it. 

i did that w/Draft 7.30.  at first i was into bits of it but then not so much. .it didn't click for me and like 2 years later i remembered i hadn't listened to it in a long time so put it on and it was just the thing i needed and it made sense to me then. 

so, not being pompous.. just saying that some times it's not the right time for a release and maybe at another point in your life it will make more sense. this has happened to me with different releases from different artists over the years... Ornette Coleman for example. his shit can be wild af or super lush. a track or two got me into him and checking out things but then years later i put it on and it all kinda came together and made sense to me or something. 

and i'm not discounting the fact that maybe someone just doesn't like a thing and that's all there is to it.. but being here on watmm amongst autechre fans it seems a missed opportunity to say "maybe it'll be better in a year" and not to give up because you're obviously an astute listener and i hate to think of people missing out on something they might enjoy.... 

only good intentions.. not being smug and didn't mean for it to come off that way. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by ignatius

[dcom]

1 minute ago, ignatius said:

only good intentions.. not being smug and didn't mean for it to come off that way. 

See above.

[ignatius]

2 hours ago, IOS said:

Meanwhile, in a not so distant universe:

 

that looks like a demanding piece for the players. intense. 

[toaoaoad]

5 hours ago, auxien said:

just here to see if Wurst has another breakdown about not liking some AE and throws a tirade and quits WATMM again

Lmao 

[danshoebridge]

I don't think saying 'give it some time and it might grow on you' (or words to that effect) is condescending at all.

We've all been there. Some stuff I was initially bitterly disappointed by ended up amongst my absolute favourite music ever.

[chronical]

what ae album would trigger the biggest fistfight if watmm was a bar? the most abstract one? makes u think 

[d-a-m-o]

3 minutes ago, chronical said:

what ae album would trigger the biggest fistfight if watmm was a bar? the most abstract one? makes u think 

 

[chronical]

 

next album comes with a handjob so you'll be sure to release endorphins no matter if u harmonise with the artist or not

[cern]

Yes they are super demanding these live-sets.. Roller Coaster high level 

Now I only listen to all the Live-sets being split up into separate tracks by some chick.. 
If someone have more info on all material she done or where she uploading the tracks? Please send info here! 

[Draft78]

1 hour ago, cern said:

Yes they are super demanding these live-sets.. Roller Coaster high level 

Now I only listen to all the Live-sets being split up into separate tracks by some chick.. 
If someone have more info on all material she done or where she uploading the tracks? Please send info here! 

I tried to download the files, but the first time I couldn't, and the second time I downloaded non-encodable files, anyway, the stuff is here

he playlist on yt too:

In my opinion the first half of the set has moments that were not fully captured, but the second half was recomposed in an excellent way

[WurstPLUS]

17 hours ago, Draft78 said:

this is more or less what I often heard back in the days of confield, then draft, then until Ted. Now it's tt2's turn.
This is also a recognizable, non-stochastic pattern

I was thinking about that when writing. Yes of course, we're adults, right? Have heard all sides of discussion and were probably even part of different sides.

IDK. I hope they'll just come up woth stuff I like, that's probably what it's about. 

Thx guys for pointing to that Reddit guy. 

Edited September 24, 2023 by WurstPLUS

[kirm]

Personally the 22 live sets have rekindled my love for Autechre!

The 2016/18 live sets & to a lesser extent sign /plus never fully gelled with me as much as previous stuff & i hadn't been listening to the back catalogue much either last few years.

Thought it was me to be honest & my tastes had changed a little and although would still count them as top tier felt like my obsessive love for them had dropped off...

But yeah these sets got me fully back in!...love them so much & from that been re exploring everything else Ae. Going to give the 2016/2018 sets another go next me thinks.

I don't think saying take a little break & come back to it a bad thing to say at all..reckon we have all had the experience with them that some stuff we didn't like at 1st later became a fav (the classic for me was chiastic slide, didn't get on with it at all when first heard it, but would now consider it up there with their best)

Edited September 24, 2023 by kirm

[Draft78]

6 hours ago, WurstPLUS said:

I was thinking about that when writing. Yes of course, we're adults, right? Have heard all sides of discussion and were probably even part of different sides.

IDK. I hope they'll just come up woth stuff I like, that's probably what it's about. 

Thx guys for pointing to that Reddit guy. 

I profit from the topic of what we really like and what is a consequence of the fact that we start influenced by the notion that it is autechre to add a third possibility:
there are cases in which knowing that a song is theirs helps me "understand" it. or simply to find it beautiful. An example: if I hadn't listened extremely carefully to all the previous material, TBM2 would probably mean little to me, a simple beat with some interesting sounds underneath. Nothing more. Yet after several listens, I really like TBM2. It's because that network of barely breathed sounds hints at a melody that reminds me of other characteristic Ae harmonies. But the melody is so lightly hinted at, and cut off, that it is the exclusive task of my unconscious to give it a shape. In this case, knowledge of the previous material gives me a key to access that I otherwise wouldn't have, and my imagination wouldn't have the tools to compose a frame of reference that gives the piece a unique look. In this, perhaps. my listening is "elitist", because I know that I for one, without a whole series of previous experiences, would not be able to find that nuance that gives TBM2 its specificity. So it's not a question, I suppose, of trying to find everything that S&R play is beautiful, but rather it's a question of having a point of view on a context that in some cases is so hidden or barely suggested that one cannot expect anyone who doesn't has chewed years of this thing can grasp with equal ease. And, at the same time, my sense of beauty is significantly conditioned by previous experience, which deflects my objectivity.

Then, well, there are many cases in which things don't work for me either... I opened a thread some time ago, for the pieces that don't click. Yes, it happens ... 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Draft78