Russia is now bombing Ukraine

[joshuatxuk]

4 minutes ago, zkom said:

Finland not joining NATO has more to do with Finlandization, Soviet-Finnish relationship and the trauma caused by that than any kind of idealism. For example Finland could never have joined EU if Soviet Union didn't dissolve and absolve Finland from the Finno-Soviet treaties. Why Finland didn't then apply to join NATO after the Soviet Union collapsed like the Baltic countries did? I think it's more to do with the myth of neutrality created during the Soviet times. Finland used to be under a sphere of heavy Soviet influence and had very little space to move in international politics which was played out to be "neutrality" which was in turn then fed as a story to the Finnish people. Finland was "independent" and "neutral" but the USSR just happened to dictate who's the president here and what can be written in press..

Sweden was always probably more truly neutral player. But the history and geopolitical position of Sweden is very different from Finland so lumping together Finnish and Swedish foreign politics, esp. towards Russia, doesn't make much sense.

Yes sorry for lumping them together beyond their aversion to join NATO, albeit for different reasons. Same with why Norway and Denmark. I don't have much insight on the Baltic countries joining other than they lacked severely in weapons and manpower and joining was a major imperative after the USSR fell. To this day NATO countries have a rotation of fight aircraft to patrol the airspace of that region. 

[Psychotronic]

Give those klingons their neutral zone. 

[joshuatxuk]

4 minutes ago, Nebraska said:

i think that's his excuse. ukraine still cannot join NATO because it fails to meet a few of the conditions for membership; not to mention zekenskyy has said joining NATO was still "a dream" for them, so i think even he knew it was a long way off. this conflict with .ru will now only make it even more difficult and considering putin has moldovia and belarus' compliance it's really a matter of how long ukraine can hold putin back while the west keeps sanctions going. 

but my guess is that putin has calculated that measure. this would be a really good time for china to let us know where they stand, because if they decided to do their own invasion into taiwan, we're all signing up for WW3

Yeah I need to read up on those conditions not being met, I know part of the standstill was also low interest until 2014. Ukraine is unique in being a former USSR state with NATO potential versus a former Warsaw Pact member.

I think China is going to keep pushing in the Spratly Islands, I don't think they have the amphibious or air capability to assault Taiwan outright. Vietnam is very likely going to be a full-fledged US ally and cooperating in military exercises soon. Even the Philippines have stepped back a bit from their pivot to China. What happens in Ukraine ultimately is surely going to be studied intensely by all parties in Asia. 

[Nebraska]

3 minutes ago, joshuatxuk said:

I don't think they have the amphibious or air capability to assault Taiwan outright.

when putin invaded ukraine yesterday, xi jinping sent 9 chinese bad boys to see what's cooking in taipei. then today, taiwan let us know where they stand. and we (sort of?) know what china is thinking?

my guess is that while xi jinping probably doesn't care much about what's happening, i'm not sure if he can afford to do what putin is doing to his economy or maybe he hasn't talked to everyone that will be heavily impacted by his decision if he moves forward.

[beerwolf]

Been too busy the last few days to really let all this sink in, but I’m sat in my chair with a beer and getting the headline’s from (love it or hate it) BBC website and starting to feel nervous about all of this. I know it’s necessary because otherwise the whole thing will blow up, but sitting back and doing nothing while the Ukraine gets totally fucked doesn’t sit well with me. It’s an awful situation for these people and nobody is gonna help them. I know it’s plain as day but it’s also sinking in that there’s a psychopath in charge of an arsenal of a lot of nasty flying objects. His speech the other day about the worst thing in history happening instantly to those who interfere is probably the most chilling thing I’ve ever seen. Anyway Hey Ho! At least my lager is nice and cold & tastes nice

Edited February 25, 2022 by beerwolf

[Nebraska]

14 minutes ago, beerwolf said:

Been too busy the last few days to really let all this sink in, but I’m sat in my chair with a beer and getting the headline’s from (love it or hate it) BBC website and starting to feel nervous about all of this.

it's weird to see a country tweet this to it's citizens:

i can kind of understand biden's reluctance to unleash "crushing sanctions" especially considering they haven't kicked .ru out of SWIFT, but again: putin isn't a dummy and either knew this wouldn't happen or gambled (correctly) it wouldn't based on international relations. i doubt putin is going to encroach on NATO countries like .ro and .pl so-

let's hope xi jinping enters the arena otherwise it's up to biden and .de to not wait months and see if current sanctions are affecting .ru

[joshuatxuk]

3 minutes ago, Nebraska said:

i doubt putin is going to encroach on NATO countries like .ro and .pl so-

same, he's aggressive but he's shrewd, he knows his limits

same with the prospect of the U.S. invading Iran after Iraq, leaders and military tacticians know their limits, even the invasion of Ukraine itself was a risk we're now seeing unfold in terms of consequence and "success"

[ignatius]

5 minutes ago, Nebraska said:

i can kind of understand biden's reluctance to unleash "crushing sanctions" especially considering they haven't kicked .ru out of SWIFT, but again: putin isn't a dummy and either knew this wouldn't happen or gambled (correctly) it wouldn't based on international relations.

the european countries have something to say about that too.. it's not just USA making the sanctions. 

[Nebraska]

1 hour ago, zkom said:

Finland not joining NATO has more to do with Finlandization, Soviet-Finnish relationship and the trauma caused by that than any kind of idealism. For example Finland could never have joined EU if Soviet Union didn't dissolve and absolve Finland from the Finno-Soviet treaties. Why Finland didn't then apply to join NATO after the Soviet Union collapsed like the Baltic countries did? I think it's more to do with the myth of neutrality created during the Soviet times. Finland used to be under a sphere of heavy Soviet influence and had very little space to move in international politics which was played out to be "neutrality" which was in turn then fed as a story to the Finnish people. Finland was "independent" and "neutral" but the USSR just happened to dictate who's the president here and what can be written in press..

Sweden was always probably more truly neutral player. But the history and geopolitical position of Sweden is very different from Finland so lumping together Finnish and Swedish foreign politics, esp. towards Russia, doesn't make much sense.

putin just put a stop to all this:

 

[zkom]

5 minutes ago, Nebraska said:

putin just put a stop to all this:

 

If you know Finnish-Russian relationship this is basically something that happens regularly. Sometimes it's more "Finland can decide for it's own membership " and the next time it's "there will be severe consequences if Finland joins NATO! " depending on which Russian politician is talking. So few people takes this seriously over here.

[Nebraska]

1 minute ago, ignatius said:

the european countries have something to say about that too.. it's not just USA making the sanctions. 

correct. and i believe that was part of putin's gamble that he can outlast (survive) any sanctions imposed by this attack. 

 

1 hour ago, Psychotronic said:

Give those klingons their neutral zone. 

[Nebraska]

3 minutes ago, zkom said:

If you know Finnish-Russian relationship this is basically something that happens regularly. 

glad they were able to keep this friendly banter going even during a war 

[SeparateHold]

hating reality

[joshuatxuk]

34 minutes ago, Nebraska said:

glad they were able to keep this friendly banter going even during a war 

As a geek about military equipment this is def reflected in their weapons. German made tanks, American fighter jets, and standard issues made locally but based off the AK-47 platform. Beyond India I can't think of another country that had a mix of Soviet and NATO aircraft in their inventory in the 1960s and 1970s.

 

[Nebraska]

NATO is activating the response force for the first time EVER. i wonder if putin had/has anticipated this play

also: my boy g kasperov (who had a few games with deep blue before getting his ass handed to him) says he's got the full proof plan to cool putin's heels:

maybe someone can assemble deep blue together and see if "they" concur 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Nebraska

[chim]

@Nebraska 

Deploying where? Also Kasparov beat the first DB, against version 2 he was fucked over by IBM sleazebags every step of the way. Moore's law would've made a loss inevitable eventually but it wasn't a fair match at the time. 

[Nebraska]

4 minutes ago, chim said:

@Nebraska 

Deploying where? Also Kasparov beat the first DB, against version 2 he was fucked over by IBM sleazebags every step of the way. Moore's law would've made a loss inevitable eventually but it wasn't a fair match at the time. 

according to the secretary general, "on land, at sea and in the air". my guess is that is code for "somewhere close to the border of ukraine near poland"

also: was jk about kasparov and deep blue. i remember they kept asking for re-matches despite him kicking it's ass a few times but i think everyone had it against him or something

[ignatius]

49 minutes ago, SeparateHold said:

hating reality

 

[YangYing]

5 minutes ago, ignatius said:

 

 

[cichlisuite]

oh boy

 

[xy_politics]

 

 

[SeparateHold]

42 minutes ago, ignatius said:

 

there is no respite . entering my misanthropic era

[YangYing]

I'm ignoring this thread

better for my health

[chim]

 

[joshuatxuk]

27 minutes ago, MIXL2 said:

I'm ignoring this thread

better for my health

Good call, no one should subject themselves to perpetual anguish over things they cannot control. Shikata ga nai.