Coronavirus COVID-19

[ignatius]

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[jaderpansen]

2 hours ago, dcom said:

Smallpox. Polio. Tetanus. Hepatitis B. Rubella. Hib. Measles. Whooping Cough. Pneumococcals. Rotavirus. Mumps. Chickenpox. Diphtheria.

Those have been either eradicated or driven to submission thanks to vaccines (especially if you don't know what they are), and uncountable number of humans have been spared from death or life-long suffering from debilitating diseases.

Some of them - like Measles - are coming back with a vengeance because people believe lies instead of science and don't vaccinate, and there are enough susceptible people who disseminate the fear, uncertainty and doubt sown by the liars that it's a danger to the public everywhere.

Even here on WATMM.

Vaccination causes adults. Be an adult, vaccinate.

but there are ppl making money from its production and distribution. there must be something wrong with it!!1

(oh soz thought i was still in the UNTELECTLOL thread there for a sec)

Edited April 28, 2021 by jaderpansen

[Claudius t Ansuulim]

Over 40% of adults in the united states are either reluctant on taking this vaccine or a hard “no”.  comparing the mrna vaccine to other vaccines with different mechanisms (like live attenuation) is a false equivalent; not a single drug currently on the market uses this mechanism.  acting like cunts won’t win them over. hard science might.

Also, careful with your assumptions.  While I’m not a medical doctor, I have studied molecular biotechnology, microbiology, taught university level health sciences, and generally understand enough about the sciences to be able to interpret raw data and peer review.  So plz watmm, try harder

 

[jaderpansen]

k

[Satans Little Helper]

I'm a professional typist. So anything I type, has been typed really fast! Like REALLY fast!

And btw, I know how to copy paste using the "plain text" option. As a typist, that's the least I could do, I believe. I have studied plenty so I should be able to do so. Right? RIGHT?

[dcom]

7 minutes ago, Claudius t Ansuulim said:

Also, careful with your assumptions.  While I’m not a medical doctor, I have studied molecular biotechnology, microbiology, taught university level health sciences, and generally understand enough about the sciences to be able to interpret raw data and peer review.  So plz watmm, try harder

I for one don't assume anything, but what you're doing has the of the tell-tale signs of someone who won't be budged in their scepticism: you're telling everyone else to bring you candidate falsifications of your views - you're telling people to do their own research (yes, I use that phrase with sarcastic intent) and try to counter your claims without you having to do anything except wait and refute; you're also appealing to authority by telling you know your stuff, but the general consensus is that your point of view is in the scientific minority, and generally classifiable as FUD. I don't have your degrees, but I also appeal to authority - the huge number of scientists and medical professionals saying that your expert sources are wrong. It's a simple case of statistics - if the point of view you're supporting is a statistical outlier, it is probably you're rooting for the wrong team. Hard science means there's lots of proof and lots of people supporting a particular view and while I'm not saying that your experts are wrong, it's probable that they are.

You also stated that you're "highly sceptical of all medical technologies," then later said "I’m not completely against these medical technologies." So you're fine with them if they save your relatives, but in general you're against them?

 

[brian trageskin]

hey this font size is actually pretty cool. i think imma use it from now on.

gee my balls are itchy. 

mom if you're readingthis: luv u mom

 

I am compensating for my tiny penis.  

[Claudius t Ansuulim]

“I for one don’t make assumptions, but let me go ahead and make a bunch of assumptions lol”

 

2 minutes ago, brian trageskin said:

hey this font size is actually pretty cool. i think imma use it from now on.

gee my balls are itchy. 

mom if you're reading thing this: luv u mom   

finally this thread starts to deliver

[dcom]

5 minutes ago, Claudius t Ansuulim said:

“I for one don’t make assumptions, but let me go ahead and make a bunch of assumptions lol”

Assumptions are different from description, I'm describing the modus operandi of people outing their scepticism of mainstream science. It's so prevalent nowadays that it's trivial to spot.

Edited April 29, 2021 by dcom

[Claudius t Ansuulim]

yes I am a sceptic, a trained sceptic at that, as any good scientist should be. was just checking to see if there was anybody willing to actually engage with the science on this topic; so far dan is the only one to do so (and I thank him again for it, I will genuinely try my best to follow up with the information he provided).  The rest of you may go back to sleep now. thanks.

[dcom]

12 minutes ago, Claudius t Ansuulim said:

yes I am a sceptic, a trained sceptic at that, as any good scientist should be. was just checking to see if there was anybody willing to actually engage with the science on this topic; so far dan is the only one to do so (and I thank him again for it, I will genuinely try my best to follow up with the information he provided).  The rest of you may go back to sleep now. thanks.

Since you're a good scientist, you most probably understand why I'm talking about statistics and that they're part of the discussion about science, probability, validity and falsifiability. 

Spoiler

Telling people to go back to sleep (even without adding "sheeple") is also part of the MO I'm describing.

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by dcom

[Amen Warrior]

1 hour ago, Claudius t Ansuulim said:

I’m not a medical doctor

 

Oh cool me neither

[Satans Little Helper]

1 hour ago, Claudius t Ansuulim said:

Over ... So plz watmm, try harder

Plz try harder yourself.

What are you arguing? People are right to be reluctant? MRNA vaccines are bad?

Thing is, apart from a scientific discussion, this is also a political issue. Besides scientific uncertainties, there's also the societal impact of not taking a vaccine which should be taken into account. What's the impact of that? And how does that risk relate to these scientific uncertainties (like long term effects of MRNA - or rather the odds of there even being long term effects)? If you want to assume the worst, lets do it in all directions. What's the worst that could happen if people do not get vaccinated? How many maligne mutations can we expect in that scenario? What are the long term effects of societies not being vaccinated?

Also note that for most new treatments (say biologicals) in general there are no long term effects being researched. Is that an issue as well? And do you also have issues with kids taking ADHD medication, for instance? Or kids taking biologicals of sorts? Medicines for kids is not a well researched subject in general, right? 

Going into whataboutism territory here. But for good reason, imo. Just to check how sceptical you are wrt health sciences in general. And where this general scepticism is wrt to your scepticism towards these vaccines. As a science-savy person like yourself, you'd also appreciate this comparison to have some idea of a baseline. I mean, if you're very sceptical wrt health sciences in general this discussion is basically over, isn't it? In that case these new MRNA vaccines are just another example of many, many others. And the discussion becomes an entirely different beast.

Also, LOL for expecting a scientific discussion on a forum about music making. You're such a troll. ;D

 

[Claudius t Ansuulim]

hey thanks for the honest reply!  No troll here, I realize the potential pitfalls of asking a music making community about medical science, but if anything I’m venting frustration over a few things:

1) No long term science is performed on drugs that make it past the phase iii clinical trials and licensure by the fda. this is a HUGE mistake.  After the clinical trials for vaccines the drug companies offer every participant the drug and don’t follow up on any of the participants that refuse (most do not).

2) these are drugs in phase iii clinical trials (where theoretically you start to gather long term data).  We’re already mandating it in some instances for travel, school, and work. Too soon?

3) The science and politics have become intertwined as both you and I have stated already, and I would add that the major media outlets are all acting as corporate mouthpieces for the drug manufacturing companies.  I’m not going full Zeff and saying that making money is bad, what I’m saying is that I don’t trust any of them for dissemination of factual information anymore.  CNN’s technical director was recently caught undercover talking about how they are actively engaged in propaganda, falsifying information, selectively reporting stories that support their agenda, etc.  Think it an isolated incident?

So when I petition an unlikely source as this place for good information (some has been provided already, so not a fully futile gesture), I’m really just trying to get good information.  The algorithms have changed, censorship of ideas has begun, and anybody that questions the “mainstream narrative” gets demonized, demonetized, deplatformed, or outright banned and their content scrubbed.  People have been backing up content provided by seemingly good faith actors just trying to reach their own objective conclusion about What the Hell is Going on in This World.  If this isn’t concerning to you then 

[brian trageskin]

just who the fuck edited my post??? wtf?? 

[Claudius t Ansuulim]

send my regards to Karen

[dcom]

53 minutes ago, Claudius t Ansuulim said:

So when I petition an unlikely source as this place for good information (some has been provided already, so not a fully futile gesture), I’m really just trying to get good information.  The algorithms have changed, censorship of ideas has begun, and anybody that questions the “mainstream narrative” gets demonized, demonetized, deplatformed, or outright banned and their content scrubbed.  People have been backing up content provided by seemingly good faith actors just trying to reach their own objective conclusion about What the Hell is Going on in This World.

You're following the exact script others have done before you, even in this same discussion thread (which you didn't read because it's 230 pages). You are not one of the select few who have gotten a glimpse of the man behind the curtain, who have found the knowledge THEY don't want anyone to find out about, what THEY'RE censoring, what THEY'RE repressing, how THEY'RE taking away your freedom of speech. When you're talking about algorithms, censorship, good faith, objective conclusions, demonization, demonetization, and deplatforming in the above manner I know exactly where you're coming from - especially the use of "actors" betrays your ideological heritage.

Edited April 29, 2021 by dcom

[Claudius t Ansuulim]

more assumptions lol.

I’ve read through just about all of the content in this thread as it was happening, watmm is one of the few places I visit regularly (and have been since way back when, joyrex.com and such)

[Extralife]

I just thoroughly enjoy reading @dcomin any debate in here. Well done, sir.

[zero]

44 minutes ago, Claudius t Ansuulim said:

So when I petition an unlikely source as this place for good information (some has been provided already, so not a fully futile gesture), I’m really just trying to get good information. 

well if you ask me, you could have gone about this a more congenial way. you seemingly popped up here out of nowhere and dropped an obnoxiously large fonted post, with an in your face message that vaccines are bad, and that you are right and we are all wrong. and it really came off that part of your determination that vaccines are bad, was acquired by watching some youtube videos. your intention to engage in some sort of open discourse regarding the validity of vaccines did not come off as entirely genuine, and followed all the hallmarks of someone that is looking to troll. now it seems the impetus is on us to prove you wrong, which I don't feel is really necessary here, because, y'know, science has already done that for us. and yes, I do trust in science and scientists because they are the experts, and I am not. 

[Claudius t Ansuulim]

dcom has provided nothing substantive in my opinion thus far, and surely you could say the same of me. the large font was a copy and paste phenom I wasn’t aware of at first until I hit “post”. I ran with it because it seemed to bunch some panties. If that’s a troll move then surrender your kittens!

honestly though, I’m not trying to change anybody’s opinion on this.  The concerns I listed above are genuine, and if you can’t realize that a significant portion of the population has similar sentiments then we are headed for some rocky waters.  Also the only reason I bring up my background is bc I’ve heard the argument “trust the science” and “trust the scientists” before, and hey! I happen to be a scientist, not specialized in virology per se but well versed enough to be able to formulate my own conclusions based off of evidence.

This is clearly not the place for such a debate though, which is why I’m fully willing to tip my hat and bid adieu

[Claudius t Ansuulim]

howdy pardner

[Alcofribas]

1 hour ago, Claudius t Ansuulim said:

going full Zef

lush

[dcom]

19 minutes ago, Claudius t Ansuulim said:

dcom has provided nothing substantive in my opinion thus far

Thank you, I aim to please.

[Wunderbar]

I wouldn't advise anyone to take the vaccine. I got my shot yesterday from some guy off the street. When i got home i just started shitting blood like unbelievable amounts of blood. That was yesterday and im still a bit leaky now.  I REGRET NOT DOING MY RESEARCH WAKE UP PEOPLE THEY ARE COMING AFTER YOUR RECTUM.