Oneohtrix Point Never - R Plus Seven

[manmower]

i think it's cool that nowadays you don't have to be good at synthesis, you can just use general midi. and instead of composition chops you can just do like this: fast, unimaginative arpeggio here, followed by wacky chopped up late 90s vox here, followed by more general midi nooding, and have everything tied together with generic sustained synth vox chords. perhaps a few new age samples sprinkled in for good measure. need a video? just smoke a joint and spend your night gathering random bullshit from youtube. guess what? now you're a fucking genius.

This is like bashing modernist painting for its lack of photorealism.

[Guest jasondonervan]

I think joshuatx does a fine job of echoing many of my thoughts on this album. Personally, I don't have a strong desire to run an intellectual discourse on it, or the associated video. Conversely, I don't deny anyone else the right to do so, but in all honestly I don't have that need to disect the music I listen to in that way. I'm a meat and potatoes IDM bloke - if something sounds pleasing to my ears, I'll like it.

When I first discovered OPN through the well of tapeblogs overflowing with mediafire links, I had no idea who was making all this weird and wonderful stuff that tapped directly into my nostalgic receptors. Of the very few interviews I could track down on crude blogs, there was no highbrow discussion on what certain tracks meant, it just seemed like one guy goofing around... riffing on old genres that nobody cared for anymore. When I learned how young Daniel was, I was really quite intrigued how somebody who wouldn't have experienced a lot of the nostalgic stuff firsthand (that I had) could use its reference points and nail it so effectively. As I watched the sunsetcorp channel fill up over time, I knew he was the real deal. I couldn't buy the Memory Vague DVD/ECCOJAMS tape fast enough.

During that time, in darker quarters of the grid (not watmm, I wasn't here then) many I converesed with deemed OPN lazy. Derivative. New Age junk. Complaints of low production quality. Tarred with the Chillwave brush. Strangely, some even went so far as to put OPN side by side with BOC to compare nostalgic merit, decrying OPN of falling woefully short ("No beats, what's that all about?" *shudder* I get that it wasn't for everyone, but for a long time OPN really was out in the wilderness. Moving on, Returnal was divisive. That opening track didn't do it any favours (for the record, I liked it) but the exposure of being released on Editions Mego started to make a few heads turn ("If Rehberg digs it, perhaps I should give it a try").

Replica and R Plus 7 show a marked shift from the OPN of old. I find it refreshing that he is trying something different to those earlier years. I don't have a burning desire for 'Rifts II' - that time has passed now. Replica was received so differently to R Plus 7. It didn't have the direct backing of being on Warp (although it was published by them), but I don't see it as a massively different work, at least thematically with the focus on sampling over looper drifts. But how much difference a major (in context) label can make... interviews absolutely everywhere. A Criterion top 10 slot. At this point I wouldn't be too surprised if Daniel showed up on Jools Holland performing a rendition of Problem Areas (hell, even Grimes made it on there). As is always the case when an artist becomes noticeably more mainstream from the days of their early work, people often turn their heads backwards to see what they have missed. Replica now seems to be getting a second wind, but I question how many of those who knew of it prior to R+7 and didn't care less for it, are operating with the mindset that 'artist xyz + signed to Warp = credible'. If Daniel were signed to Warp at the time of Replica, I really do believe that a bigger PR push would have seen it regarded in a more favourable light than it originally was.

I hope that folks who are discovering OPN for the first time through Warp enjoy what they hear as they delve into his back catalogue. There certainly is plenty to enjoy, and while there are a few misses (Reliquary House wasn't my bag) you can't really go too far wrong. I'm not judging people for being late to the party. Any music can and should be enjoyed regardless of whether you were around when it was released or not. Just be mindful to forumalate your opinions independently, and don't get caught up in the journalistic ring circus. You know what? For me, the Rolling Stone 'review' is more honest than the bulk of hipster-riddled blogs clambering over each other to see who can top the word count:

On the rise from an experimental underground that prizes esoteric computer sounds and spaced-out vintage synths, Oneohtrix Point Never sounds like an electronic-music time traveler. His first LP for the modish label Warp elicits deep emotion from atmospheric riffs and samples of voices reduced to hiccups and sighs, with dollops of wholesome beauty. Warm organ sounds in "Boring Angel" suggest a futuristic church service, while sophisticated incursions of rhythm and repetition invoke avant-classical composers Philip Glass and Steve Reich. It's holy music, even if wholly weird.

[scumtron]

 

He also wrote the score for Sofia Coppola’s film The Bling Ring (2013).

 

I'm pleasantly surprised, but still puzzled by how his music suddenly is so popular.

 

I think he has a hella good agent/publicity team working for him. That's like, half the game, in my eyes.

Either you make a career out of your art, or you get a job and have a hobby that a few people pay attention to.

Everyone and their neighbor makes music now, so how do you expect to get people's attention and time without making yourself extremely visible?

Pay to play, and if your shit is good enough, you might be able to earn a living.

 

I bet his agent is in here as well. This thread for this album is now page 34, while Tim Heckers latest is on page 4.

Does not make sense!!!

[awepittance]

all of Daniel's penis belong to us

[yshf]

Daniel's vaporshake brings all the boys to the yard

[fumi]

I've always found the Eccojams and End Of Life Entertainment Scenario stuff to be really moving for reasons I cannot explain.

However, albums like Replica and the new one just don't do anything for me.

[joshuatxuk]

 

I think joshuatx does a fine job of echoing many of my thoughts on this album. Personally, I don't have a strong desire to run an intellectual discourse on it, or the associated video. Conversely, I don't deny anyone else the right to do so, but in all honestly I don't have that need to disect the music I listen to in that way. I'm a meat and potatoes IDM bloke - if something sounds pleasing to my ears, I'll like it.

 

When I first discovered OPN through the well of tapeblogs overflowing with mediafire links, I had no idea who was making all this weird and wonderful stuff that tapped directly into my nostalgic receptors. Of the very few interviews I could track down on crude blogs, there was no highbrow discussion on what certain tracks meant, it just seemed like one guy goofing around... riffing on old genres that nobody cared for anymore. When I learned how young Daniel was, I was really quite intrigued how somebody who wouldn't have experienced a lot of the nostalgic stuff firsthand (that I had) could use its reference points and nail it so effectively. As I watched the sunsetcorp channel fill up over time, I knew he was the real deal. I couldn't buy the Memory Vague DVD/ECCOJAMS tape fast enough.

 

During that time, in darker quarters of the grid (not watmm, I wasn't here then) many I converesed with deemed OPN lazy. Derivative. New Age junk. Complaints of low production quality. Tarred with the Chillwave brush. Strangely, some even went so far as to put OPN side by side with BOC to compare nostalgic merit, decrying OPN of falling woefully short ("No beats, what's that all about?" *shudder* I get that it wasn't for everyone, but for a long time OPN really was out in the wilderness. Moving on, Returnal was divisive. That opening track didn't do it any favours (for the record, I liked it) but the exposure of being released on Editions Mego started to make a few heads turn ("If Rehberg digs it, perhaps I should give it a try").

 

Replica and R Plus 7 show a marked shift from the OPN of old. I find it refreshing that he is trying something different to those earlier years. I don't have a burning desire for 'Rifts II' - that time has passed now. Replica was received so differently to R Plus 7. It didn't have the direct backing of being on Warp (although it was published by them), but I don't see it as a massively different work, at least thematically with the focus on sampling over looper drifts. But how much difference a major (in context) label can make... interviews absolutely everywhere. A Criterion top 10 slot. At this point I wouldn't be too surprised if Daniel showed up on Jools Holland performing a rendition of Problem Areas (hell, even Grimes made it on there). As is always the case when an artist becomes noticeably more mainstream from the days of their early work, people often turn their heads backwards to see what they have missed. Replica now seems to be getting a second wind, but I question how many of those who knew of it prior to R+7 and didn't care less for it, are operating with the mindset that 'artist xyz + signed to Warp = credible'. If Daniel were signed to Warp at the time of Replica, I really do believe that a bigger PR push would have seen it regarded in a more favourable light than it originally was.

 

I hope that folks who are discovering OPN for the first time through Warp enjoy what they hear as they delve into his back catalogue. There certainly is plenty to enjoy, and while there are a few misses (Reliquary House wasn't my bag) you can't really go too far wrong. I'm not judging people for being late to the party. Any music can and should be enjoyed regardless of whether you were around when it was released or not. Just be mindful to forumalate your opinions independently, and don't get caught up in the journalistic ring circus. You know what? For me, the Rolling Stone 'review' is more honest than the bulk of hipster-riddled blogs clambering over each other to see who can top the word count:

 

On the rise from an experimental underground that prizes esoteric computer sounds and spaced-out vintage synths, Oneohtrix Point Never sounds like an electronic-music time traveler. His first LP for the modish label Warp elicits deep emotion from atmospheric riffs and samples of voices reduced to hiccups and sighs, with dollops of wholesome beauty. Warm organ sounds in "Boring Angel" suggest a futuristic church service, while sophisticated incursions of rhythm and repetition invoke avant-classical composers Philip Glass and Steve Reich. It's holy music, even if wholly weird.

 

 

Great post! That thought of OPN on Jools Holland is quite amusing. I think he is still a guy goofing around to a great extent. Personally I can't shake the feeling that he finds much of this baffling and amusing himself. He seems like he could have a dry and snarky, but well-mannered, outlook on all of this. But I'm totally just assuming things...

 

The only other thought I had about OPN since last night, which I think is related to his sudden uptake in attention and acclaim, is this idea that certain artists are chosen to become a "narrative" for music journalists. That's fine to a certain extent, but the problem is when they try to couple it with innovation progression within music as a whole. He's been framed as someone who is breaking ground with his music, not just a talented producer who happens to be making good music. That's simply not the case with 99.9% of musicians out there (insert mention of postmodernism here) because there's never going to be an equivalent, at least in this state of music making, of innovative figures like Brian Eno or Frank Zappa or John Cage or Raymond Scott or anyone else like that because they are tied to novel historical developments and movements we all acknowledge or utilize now.

 

There are plenty of other electronic producers I can think of, most of whom I actually like, that have been seemingly groomed and thrust into fame: James Blake, the "big" chillwave and witch-house acts, Flying Lotus, Nicolas Jaar, Andy Stott, The Field, Grimes, etc. Sometimes they seem like actual hunches (James Blake was getting a lot of hype long before he even put out anything with his vocals) but other times I can't help but conclude payola and PR was involved. It's something I'm mindful of but in most cases tolerate with a shoulder shrug. It's certainly annoying, if not infuriating, to many others.

[Alcofribas]

 

i think it's cool that nowadays you don't have to be good at synthesis, you can just use general midi. and instead of composition chops you can just do like this: fast, unimaginative arpeggio here, followed by wacky chopped up late 90s vox here, followed by more general midi nooding, and have everything tied together with generic sustained synth vox chords. perhaps a few new age samples sprinkled in for good measure. need a video? just smoke a joint and spend your night gathering random bullshit from youtube. guess what? now you're a fucking genius.

This is like bashing modernist painting for its lack of photorealism.

definitely not. all I'm really saying is i think this record is a cheap thrill.

[ascdi]

Good posting lately in this thread. Here's what I think:

 

wattem readers are an inherently conservative bunch, musically. The music we like is inherently conservative music—it's full of references to and reverence for the past, for one thing.

 

A lot of what people argue about on here is whether or not tools we are all familiar with are deployed `properly` or for the `right reasons`. A lot of what people argue about on here is whether or not a certain sound is being used in an `impure` or `trend-chasing` way, for example. This whole idea that the potency of a sound can be depleted or that overuse of a sound is to be avoided—that is inherently a conservative, preservationist idea.

 

But if you think about it, all these things are just constructs. For example, one big thing that happened to me is that something snapped a while ago and I no longer experience the feeling that certain sounds are `too cheesy` to enjoy. When I thought about it, I realized that `cheesy` is TOTALLY a construct that has way more to do with me than it has to do with the sound in question. So, in my opinion, judgments of cheesyness really become statements about yourself or what you think music `OUGHT` to be in order to be `SERIOUS`, which is inherently a conservative idea.

 

Like, people here treasure '94 jungle or whatever, and it was SUPER HARDCORE at the time to play music that was WAY too fast, WAY too aggressive, WAY TOO mnml or whatever, right? Well guess what, playing ENYA LOOPS to the IDM kids who only want to pogo or beard stroke or whatever is CONFRONTATIONAL and PERVERSE in exactly the same way, it's just that the vocabulary has changed now. The pendulum swings, and all that.

 

I'm not against conservatism btw, I love minimal techno, acid, all this stuff we all love, which is all music that has distinct limits and is supposed to be made for certain reasons and used in certain situations. These are all ideas with deep roots that draw from an APPRECIATION FOR MUSIC HISTORY and a HIERARCHY OF AESTHETIC VALUES and literally the reason we are all here on the same message board is that we all have a shared history and lexicon of these subtextual `requirements` for how electronic music should work.

 

As someone mentioned (too afraid to scroll up now), early 0PN was nostalgic synth jams, and was largely appreciated as HEAVILY referential throwback music, hence right in a lot of IDM / quasi-BoC wheelhouses. To me, the latest 0PN stuff comes from a place polar opposite to that and is more related to a tradition of COLLAGE or POSTMODERNISM or something, where you deliberately discard the deep, perhaps subliminal `requirements` that we all hold in our heads for how music should function and instead try and `flatten` everything onto a perfectly level playing field free of rules or references.

 

You could argue that this leads to an even deeper, weirder nostalgia, like the X-Files theme song, or The Host-style 90s webring nostalgia, but the point is, have you ever REALLY listened to an Enya loop? ARE YOU SURE??

 

Anyway, that's how I think of it. I can't believe people are forming opinions of this album already. It's going to take me like 20 listens to even deprogram myself enough so I can actually hear it. Lush packaging, anyway.

[Alcofribas]

good post. however, I completely disagree with you lol. I think I specifically take issue with how conservative and cheap this record is. it's fashionable nostalgia, it's not perverse in the least. in fact, maybe I'm specifically annoyed that it doesn't go far enough into that confrontational perversion you speak of and merely hints at it while remain too cool for school.

 

last post

[ascdi]

Haha, fair point. Honestly, it will take me many more listens before I can decide if I agree with you or not.

[Guest zaphod]

i think far side virtual was a much better album in terms of "confronting nostalgia". tim hecker's new album is a much better example of an artist shifting stylistically into a more aggressive, avant garde mode.

[joshuatxuk]

good post. however, I completely disagree with you lol.

 

Haha, fair point. Honestly, it will take me many more listens before I can decide if I agree with you or not.

 

This is the point of the discussion in a nutshell. The artistic merits are arguable. The emotional response to this will vary completely from person to person. Also, fuck music journalism and their general self-importance.

[joshuatxuk]

i think far side virtual was a much better album in terms of "confronting nostalgia".

 

agreed - that's also why far side virtual would not (and should not) have ever been released on a label as big as WARP

 

that's part of the reason truly experimental and fringe releases will always exist and outlets like bandcamp, tape runs, and niche labels will always be important - the bigger the label the lower the chance of an artist not being compelled to persuaded to change his or her music, and that includes many of the "indie" record labels and distributors

 

...i bet one could come up with a rough formula that shows how exponentially smaller the chances are of someone releasing an album with 100% creative control based on the size and scope of the label they are on, it's a rare feat and most artists can't have it both ways without dumb luck - (obviously we can't go into the hearts and minds to assume how much they factor success into their musical production but one can always guess and that's an endless debate)

[Candiru]

Mining sounds from your childhood to create a perpetual state of Peter Pan syndrome. Generation Y bitches.

[joshuatxuk]

Mining sounds from your childhood to create a perpetual state of Peter Pan syndrome. Generation Y bitches.

 

Boards of Canada? You could say the same about Gen X.

[joshuatxuk]

I'm Gen Y (quick google check) and right now Gen Z (born in late 90s/early 00s) is in the making and these are the individuals who DON'T remember the 80s or 90s but find the aesthetic so appealing.

 

They are more often than not the ones appropriating and re-hashing the culture and aesthetics in a superficial and flippant manner on tumblr and buzzfeed and every other social media platform. The ones who are perfectly content with youtube VEVO streams and corporate promos of "indie" and "underground" culture. That's what concerns me. Some will ride it out and triumph as thoughtful and independent people but many won't, and it'll be to an extent we've never seen before.

[Guest zaphod]

i think with gen z and onwards the whole notion of "selling out" and all the baggage attached to it has disappeared. and the peter pan thing exists for every generation. baby boomers have been forcing their late 60s/early 70s golden age of culture down everyone's throats for the last thirty years.

[spptrl alt del]

last word in the liner notes is: "s o r r y"... i wonder if it's just one big piss-take. that would be something

[ascdi]

I think in order to make judgments like `selling out` you have to be aware of the context of whatever you're talking about. So like, soulful John Mayer singing on the new Ae ep would be selling out because we have a preconceived notion of what `pure` electronic music should be, and also we have a preconceived notion that John Mayer is typically a commercial, pandering thing.

 

I think recent gens Y & Z etc. don't necessarily have less judgmental baggage, but they have way less contextual baggage—where because of YouTube or the Internet in general they see trends, sounds, whatever in more of an `eternal present` than as belonging to particular eras or being `for` particular things or whatever.

 

So I really do think calling stuff like this `ironic` or `hipster` sampling is missing the point. It really is just doing whatever you want with genuinely less concern for any subtextual `rules` about how to build music. Like when Rihanna uses a rave siren or whatever. I really don't think the youngsters hear that as a reference to a past ANYTHING.

[ascdi]

Every time I hear the Amen in some Dodge truck commercial I'm like ARGHH SO ANGRY WHYYY

[awepittance]

last word in the liner notes is: "s o r r y"... i wonder if it's just one big piss-take. that would be something

lol

[Alcofribas]

I will say that I think it's cool that music like this has become relatively popular. I may have my own issues with the album but overall I like the idea of wacky "experimental" instrumental electronic music having this kind of heyday.

 

it is also worth mentioning that it's cool how this album has all our gears turning, couldn't say the same for soooo many other new electronic releases.

 

but yeah fuck this album lol

[joshuatxuk]

it is also worth mentioning that it's cool how this album has all our gears turning, couldn't say the same for soooo many other new electronic releases.

 

but yeah fuck this album lol

 

It's nice and refreshing huh? Beats browsing through the ass-kissing and circle-jerking I usually see, especially when I listened to future garage and beat scene stuff a lot a year or so ago. Something about seeing someone simply write "tune" and it having 100+ likes is kind of infuriating.

[Alcofribas]

yeah it's cool to see us all unpacking our interpretations here. i feel like I only ever see that in the ae sub forum lol