Coronavirus COVID-19

[drome]

Lauded little vaxx man gates was buddies with high profile mega nonce jeffrey epstein. Surprise, surprise.

The sleaze of the billionaire class is off the charts.

https://www.businessinsider.com/bill-gates-jeffrey-epstein-friendship-swedish-mother-daughter-meeting-2019-10?op=1&r=US&IR=T

Edited May 19, 2021 by drome

[ignatius]

deserved or not.. the negative media attention bill gates is getting might have something to do w/his divorce and maneuvers being made for whatever reason. big time divorce can get that way. 

i'm surprised he's not been raked over the coals more for being so ruthless w/microsoft back in the day. shutting out competition.. buying people out.. dragging people to court.. he did all that shit and it was the MO of the company. he's cultivated a "gentle nerd" persona for a long time now but like a lot of big business people he was shrewd and cut throat. 

i don't know if knowing epstein is an automatic pedo label for anyone. it's not like he has 30+ sexual harassment  allegations against him.. does he? maybe he does and we've never heard about them.. 

anyway.. i tend to think his wife wants something from him and this is a tactic. perhaps it's all true or perhaps it's just talk. 

not sure what it has to do w/the covid vaccines???? or COVID in any way. 

 

[Silent Member]

Bill Gates made covid in a lab to install 5G chips in the population through mass vaccination for better mind control so we won't find out about the baby fucking lizard people that rule the world in secrete. Thankfully some people found out through reading some posts on the internet and now they're bravely trying to bring Trump back into office so he can kill all the lizard people and bring back jobs in the coal industry.

[drome]

1 minute ago, ignatius said:

deserved or not.. the negative media attention bill gates is getting might have something to do w/his divorce and maneuvers being made for whatever reason. big time divorce can get that way. 

i'm surprised he's not been raked over the coals more for being so ruthless w/microsoft back in the day. shutting out competition.. buying people out.. dragging people to court.. he did all that shit and it was the MO of the company. he's cultivated a "gentle nerd" persona for a long time now but like a lot of big business people he was shrewd and cut throat. 

i don't know if knowing epstein is an automatic pedo label for anyone. it's not like he has 30+ sexual harassment  allegations against him.. does he? maybe he does and we've never heard about them.. 

anyway.. i tend to think his wife wants something from him and this is a tactic. perhaps it's all true or perhaps it's just talk. 

not sure what it has to do w/the covid vaccines???? or COVID in any way. 

 

Not sure what this has to do with the biggest vaxx advocates out there? I tend not to trust the advice of ruthless, morally corrupt sleazesters like gates. Dunno about you...

[ignatius]

26 minutes ago, drome said:

Not sure what this has to do with the biggest vaxx advocates out there? I tend not to trust the advice of ruthless, morally corrupt sleazesters like gates. Dunno about you...

i don't associate gates w/the vaccines. just because he says vaccines are good or whatever it is he says.. doesn't make.. you know.. doctor's and infectious disease expert's opinions or advocacy work less valuable for some reason. there are doctors in the world who are self serving assholes but many are virtuous and interested in helping people and being public servants and i have no trouble taking them at face value and TRUSTING THE SCIENCE. 

but if you just do the opposite of what billionaire computer nerd bill gates suggests is a good idea then i'm sure thing'll be fine for you. 

or maybe open yourself up to nuance and shades of gray instead of just black and white. 

vaccines existed long before bill gates and will exist long after bill gates has turned to dust. 

also, worth mentioning that someone can be an asshole and still be right. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by ignatius

[drome]

25 minutes ago, ignatius said:

i don't associate gates w/the vaccines. just because he says vaccines are good or whatever it is he says.. doesn't make.. you know.. doctor's and infectious disease expert's opinions or advocacy work less valuable for some reason. there are doctors in the world who are self serving assholes but many are virtuous and interested in helping people and being public servants and i have no trouble taking them at face value and TRUSTING THE SCIENCE. 

but if you just do the opposite of what billionaire computer nerd bill gates suggests is a good idea then i'm sure thing'll be fine for you. 

or maybe open yourself up to nuance and shades of gray instead of just black and white. 

vaccines existed long before bill gates and will exist long after bill gates has turned to dust. 

also, worth mentioning that someone can be an asshole and still be right. 

Blindly trusting a corporate funded coterie of scientists?  Seems akin to religious zealotry to me.

Edited May 19, 2021 by drome

[drome]

On 5/18/2021 at 8:08 AM, dcom said:

This is why I get vaccinated: I really don't care that much about myself, which means that I'm prepared to take whatever side-effects - if any, adverse or mild - so I can protect the people around me, known and unknown. Not getting vaccinated against respiratory infections is not an option for me, as my significant other has asthma - I'm primarily protecting her, but I get the rest of humanity as a bonus. The Finnish vaccination program is awesome - like me, our son got his first jabs at around two months, and has received more and boosters after that. You can always decline, but it's a statistically insignificant fraction of parents who don't participate in the program - so there's herd immunity for a lot of nasty things here by default (check the list from the link above) - and it's free. COVID-19 is currently a special case, so it's not in the program, but if boosters are going to be needed, it will be matter-of-factly added to the program, perhaps even included in the annual influenza jabs. I think the COVID-19 (and other infectious disease) deniers and anti-vaxxers are a more acute danger to humanity as solipsist infection vectors than the minuscule amount of adverse side-effects from the vaccinations - real or imaginary, present or future. Whether you understand this or not, you need to get vaccinated.

 

You’re a pusher, a peddler. Pushing experimental drugs on the world populace for likes and validation in the face of sky high survival rates. Disgraceful.

On 5/15/2021 at 11:12 AM, dcom said:

Would you care to elaborate on that, what are they doing? This is a serious question, I would like to understand what you're talking about - I know Tories are British conservatives, but I'm not following the UK that closely.

Oh, mandating hugging for instance. That’s probably completely normal to a cold fish like you.

[dcom]

4 minutes ago, drome said:

You’re a pusher, a peddler. Pushing experimental drugs on the world populace for likes and validation in the face of sky high survival rates. Disgraceful.

Oh, mandating hugging for instance. That’s probably completely normal to a cold fish like you.

[Rubin Farr]

15 hours ago, drome said:

There’s a big push in the media to guilt trip people into having the vaccine. If you don’t have it, they say you are selfish. It is in-fact SELFISH to PRESSURISE people to have an EXPERIMENTAL vaccine, created in a matter of months. Who knows what impact this rushed vaccine will have on us. Don’t bow to this abusive coercion, masquerading as kindness.

Have you been in a cave for the past year? FFS

[dcom]

[zkom]

17 hours ago, drome said:

It is in-fact SELFISH to PRESSURISE people 

[BCM]

drome has many completely valid points and is right to be concerned. there is no reason to castigate and vilify him as some kind of "UNBELIEVER!!" (pitchforks out). why are you so against a healthy debate and sharing of ideas and concerns? surely it's OK to question this? like, does none of it seem just a leeetle bit suspicious to the fervent vaccine proponents? you can't see anything in all of this that makes you slightly worried? i mean, jesus christ guys, i thought this place was supposed to be frequented by free thinkers? something very very odd is happening to lots of you - e.g. many of you would associate with the left side of politics and would position yourself as generally against big business, hyper-capitalism and government control etc. but by and large you're pushing for everyone to imbibe a product produced in a novel way, sidestepping many of the usual checks and balances, by big pharma, which is going to hugely increase their revenue and power. do none of you see the hypocrisy in this? i feel like i'm taking fucking crazy pills!

[zkom]

8 minutes ago, BCM said:

drome has many completely valid points and is right to be concerned.

The Epstein-Gates connection is a valid point against vaccinations? I don't care if Bill Gates is against or for the vaccine. I'm trusting the scientists behind this.

[BCM]

jesus fucking christ there's no hope. listen to what you just said - read it back in your head. fuck me... anyway, good luck to all.

Edited May 19, 2021 by BCM

[user]

15 minutes ago, BCM said:

drome has many completely valid points and is right to be concerned. there is no reason to castigate and vilify him as some kind of "UNBELIEVER!!" (pitchforks out). why are you so against a healthy debate and sharing of ideas and concerns? surely it's OK to question this? like, does none of it seem just a leeetle bit suspicious to the fervent vaccine proponents? you can't see anything in all of this that makes you slightly worried? i mean, jesus christ guys, i thought this place was supposed to be frequented by free thinkers? something very very odd is happening to lots of you - e.g. many of you would associate with the left side of politics and would position yourself as generally against big business, hyper-capitalism and government control etc. but by and large you're pushing for everyone to imbibe a product produced in a novel way, sidestepping many of the usual checks and balances, by big pharma, which is going to hugely increase their revenue and power. do none of you see the hypocrisy in this? i feel like i'm taking fucking crazy pills!

I don't agree with drome and I think you're making a couple leaps of logic in your post but that of course doesn't mean that there's no truth in what you say. I do however fully agree with you that the way some people like to show their socially desired behaviour, unyielding faith in all kinds of institutions and shout down those that do not align is embarrassing. Personally lost all interest in having any debate about this when I realised that every time it basically boils down to either an expert level discussion on disease, biology, medical science or becomes a metaphysical discussion on what is real and when something is actually really true or not.

[Rubin Farr]

31 minutes ago, BCM said:

drome has many completely valid points and is right to be concerned. there is no reason to castigate and vilify him as some kind of "UNBELIEVER!!" (pitchforks out). why are you so against a healthy debate and sharing of ideas and concerns? surely it's OK to question this? like, does none of it seem just a leeetle bit suspicious to the fervent vaccine proponents? you can't see anything in all of this that makes you slightly worried? i mean, jesus christ guys, i thought this place was supposed to be frequented by free thinkers? something very very odd is happening to lots of you - e.g. many of you would associate with the left side of politics and would position yourself as generally against big business, hyper-capitalism and government control etc. but by and large you're pushing for everyone to imbibe a product produced in a novel way, sidestepping many of the usual checks and balances, by big pharma, which is going to hugely increase their revenue and power. do none of you see the hypocrisy in this? i feel like i'm taking fucking crazy pills!

No one is vilifying anyone if they don't get one of the vaccines (that is their choice, whether foolish & dangerous or not), but his attitude and approach came off as ignorant and full of himself, not like that's unique to that member, by a longshot. But trying to frame coronavirus vaccines as some kind of "experimental drug" or lacking peer reviewed trials and studies, is just misinformation. Suspicion of these vaccines is unwarranted, and speaks to the base human nature of fear. No vaccine or medication is 100% effective on all humans 100% of the time, that's just not the way medicine and biology work. Increased worldwide public education of what fights the vaccine, and what doesn't is what's needed.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact

[Soloman Tump]

The "indian" variant is starting to take hold here in the UK in a number of towns - although since a majority of adults are now vaccinated it should have minimal effect on the general populous.  Waiting to see full results from the labs on how this variant reacts with the jabs on offer.

What has become clear though is that the majority of patients hospitalised with this variant in areas like Bolton and Bradford (and London!) are unvaccinated, and have recent links to travel to India / Pakistan.  Why we have allowed open travel to/from India for so long is anyones guess - I could have bought a ticket to travel to India but technically not been allowed to drive to Wales!

Its a tricky political / racial card - but it is becoming increasingly clear that the certain ethnic groups who are staying clear of the vaccine (for the many different reasons) will bare the full force of whatever this variant brings to the uk. 

 

Vaccines are readily available to EVERYONE in the areas affected now, so if you don't want the jab but are happy for the NHS to bail you out, that is selfish.

[BCM]

Vaccines are readily available to EVERYONE in the areas affected now, so if you don't want the jab but are happy for the NHS to bail you out, that is selfish.

so we do actually PAY for the NHS you know. i pay around £600 per month in national insurance. that's a whole lot more expensive than a private health care plan would be, and you don't get the choice to opt out. so it's not selfish to fucking use a service you have paid for (and paid a lot) for many years.

also, thankfully for the vast majority of people, the disease is mild and will not require any medical intervention. so i agree that those with co-morbidities, the vulnerable and elderly should be vaccinated, but it's still got to be a choice. how can you argue against someone having a choice as to what to do with their own body? i bet a lot of you agree with the right to die/euthanasia for those with debilitating conditions etc - those people should have a choice what to do with their own body and life. how is this different?

[jaderpansen]

ya heard? divorced childfucker gates had frozen pizza yesterday! never gonna touch dat shit again!

52 minutes ago, BCM said:

anyway, good luck to all.

you'll need more of that if you reject the vaxx, believe me. i don't see why knee-jerk scepticism against everything remotely "mainstream" would be considered more "free" of a thinking than the opposite. now if you please im gonna enjoy this O2.

2 minutes ago, BCM said:

i bet a lot of you agree with the right to die/euthanasia for those with debilitating conditions etc - those people should have a choice what to do with their own body and life. how is this different?

covid-19 is infectious.

[Rubin Farr]

21 minutes ago, Soloman Tump said:

It’s a tricky political / racial card - but it is becoming increasingly clear that the certain ethnic groups who are staying clear of the vaccine (for the many different reasons) will bare the full force of whatever this variant brings to the uk.

I’m afraid after analyses are done, we’ll find that happened in areas of the US as well, but the racial politics here are so inflamed currently, journalists can only use language like “the virus disproportionately affects minority communities”

[dcom]

I'm absolutely not advocating for mandatory vaccinations to get to herd immunity (for COVID-19 or anything else). I'm trying to make it explicitly clear that I think it's definitely not smart - and yes, even selfish - to decidedly avoid getting vaccinated. Recommending and advocating for vaccinations is regularly blatantly and incorrectly conflated with the idea of supporting and advocating for them to be mandatory or even forced; this is not true, plain and simple. I'm happy that vaccines are available and that I have the option of having them (which I do with gusto, because science); I'm happy to pay the taxes to fund them -  but I would resist, too, if they were mandatory or forced. Being smart has always been optional, and more and more people are choosing not to be smart but smart-asses about it.

Edited May 19, 2021 by dcom

[auxien]

41 minutes ago, BCM said:

how can you argue against someone having a choice as to what to do with their own body? i bet a lot of you agree with the right to die/euthanasia for those with debilitating conditions etc - those people should have a choice what to do with their own body and life. how is this different?

not to speak for Soloman or anyone else, but this is different because it's a contagion. if a person doesnt want cancer treatment, they're effecting only themselves and their immediate loved ones, if any. that's it. not getting vaccinated against a contagion (that can potentially become a debilitating/deadly condition itself) is potentially increasing the likelihood of variants over time, infecting some immunocompromised persons, or possibly even down the way infecting those who've been vaccinated (if long term evidence shows some possibility of the vaccines losing effect after time....no clue if this is likely or even possible, but i've heard it discussed).

that said, i'm not going to advocate forcing a vaccine on anyone really, except possibly children. but a rational adult who wants to abstain from the vaccine? go for it. what the fuck ever. make sure and tell people is all i say, as a courtesy so those around you know where you stand.

1 hour ago, BCM said:

drome has many completely valid points and is right to be concerned. there is no reason to castigate and vilify him as some kind of "UNBELIEVER!!" (pitchforks out). why are you so against a healthy debate and sharing of ideas and concerns? surely it's OK to question this? like, does none of it seem just a leeetle bit suspicious to the fervent vaccine proponents? you can't see anything in all of this that makes you slightly worried? i mean, jesus christ guys, i thought this place was supposed to be frequented by free thinkers? something very very odd is happening to lots of you - e.g. many of you would associate with the left side of politics and would position yourself as generally against big business, hyper-capitalism and government control etc. but by and large you're pushing for everyone to imbibe a product produced in a novel way, sidestepping many of the usual checks and balances, by big pharma, which is going to hugely increase their revenue and power. do none of you see the hypocrisy in this? i feel like i'm taking fucking crazy pills!

what do you actually think is happening? are you full bore on the conspiracy theories or what? like, being a little suspicious is healthy imo, regarding basically anything, but i haven't seen you say what you think is really going on (i've not kept up terribly ITT tho so direct me to your thoughts elsewhere if they've been posted).

Edited May 19, 2021 by auxien

[Soloman Tump]

39 minutes ago, jaderpansen said:

ya heard? divorced childfucker gates had frozen pizza yesterday! never gonna touch dat shit again!

you'll need more of that if you reject the vaxx, believe me. i don't see why knee-jerk scepticism against everything remotely "mainstream" would be considered more "free" of a thinking than the opposite. now if you please im gonna enjoy this O2.

covid-19 is infectious.

Agreed. Euthanasia is a personal choice. It does affect your friends and family but it doesn't kill them too. 

Non covid vaccination then infection and subsequent spread because you haven't done everything possible to limit spread is selfish. 

 

I pay taxes too! The NHS is there for many reasons as well as covid, and I hope they can get back to concentrating on other things very soon once the preventable spread of covid is under control. 

hope there's a jab for cure to cancer soon! Sign me up! 

[thefxbip]

If you get a headache will you not get a tylenol?

If you get AIDS will you not get antiviral?

If you get Cancer will you not get treatment?

If you get bitten by a cobra will you not get antidote?

If you get old school plague, ebola will you not get a vaccine?

All of these are provided by pharmacentical by the way.The anti big pharma narrative is non-sense.You may as well never get any medical treatment or support ever.

[Thu Zaw]

Having been raised in parts of Asia where TB, Malaria, Japanese encephalitis, Leprosy, Dengue Fever and Meningitis are rife and take 10,000s lives a year, I'm really happy that vaccines exist and I had access to them. Clever researchers and developers. Well done.

I don't really get where all this suspicion about this particular vaccine has come from. It seems to me like a snowballing wave of mass hysteria and conspiracy theory.