Coronavirus COVID-19

[Enthusiast]

 

[ambermonk]

Just now, chenGOD said:

Ok, what the actual fuck is going on in the US

 

Lunacy, in one word. All those armed protesters in Michigan bitching about their Constitutional rights being infringed upon whilst simultaneously ignoring the "separation of church and state" bit...the MAGA faction is more adept at hypocrisy than anyone I know.

[chenGOD]

That’s just straight up belief in the superstitious though. It’s like “science? We don’t need no stinking science!”

[Enthusiast]

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3931126

Quote

TAIPEI (Taiwan News) – Chinese leader Xi Jinping (習近平) asked World Health Organization (WHO) Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus to suppress news about the Wuhan coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak, the German intelligence agency BND found, according to a report by German magazine Der Spiegel.

During a conversation on Jan. 21, Xi reportedly asked Tedros not to announce that the virus could be transmitted between humans and to delay any declaration of a coronavirus pandemic.

It took until the end of January before the WHO declared the coronavirus outbreak needed to receive international attention. Because of China’s delay, the world wasted four to six weeks it could have used better to counter the virus from spreading, the BND concluded.

Germany’s Robert Koch Institute also said that China failed to reveal all relevant information at the outset of the epidemic, leading it to turn to the BND for advice, according to a report in the Sueddeutsche Zeitung quoted by CNA.

In a response to the German media reports, Chinese diplomats said the opposite was true, arguing that the communist country’s handling of the virus had saved time which had been wasted by governments in other countries.

 

[EdamAnchorman]

8 hours ago, dingformung said:

Absolutely, the economic effects are already bigger than those of the financial crisis of 2008. Makes you question how good our economic systems enable us to react to crises. We have some of the strongest and most efficient economies yet they fail to provide a sufficient preparation for crises times, simply because you can't make profit with that.

It's not that you can't make profit, it's that the markets don't like uncertainty.  If they know a problem is coming and can plan for it, markets don't tank as badly.  Uncertainty is their kryptonite.

[Roo]

There was an all-night house party next door last night, so I guess things are easing/loosening up here (from today QLDers can have household visits between groups of 5). Sucky for me after an all-nighter the previous night and 40 hours without sleep to have to contend with loud shenanigans until 5am but also novel in a way and felt chill about it.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Roo

[Zephyr_Nova]

I've known 4 (prob 5) people so far who have either had it, or something with near identical symptoms.  One needed a CPAP machine for a week for breathing assistance, and another still has lingering respiratory problems.  All between ages 30-40.  So to me it doesn't seem like some rare 1 in a million thing... although, statistically that's about how likely one is to get it where I am presently (pretending even half the cases are reported, which they obviously aren't).  All but one of the people I know who have (probably) had it live elsewhere in the world.

[Brisbot]

5 hours ago, randomsummer said:

Absolutely, the economic effects are already bigger than those of the financial crisis of 2008. Makes you question how good our economic systems enable us to react to crises. We have some of the strongest and most efficient economies yet they fail to provide a sufficient preparation for crises times, simply because you can't make profit with that.

I guess that is what happens when you base your economic system on basically barely fettered gambling.

[psn]

10 hours ago, Enthusiast said:

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3931126

 

 

[ignatius]

I guess that is what happens when you base your economic system on basically barely fettered gambling.

I watched The Big Short again the other day and ya just have to see it if you haven’t seen it. It’s staggering. The fraud. The big lies.

[dingformung]

8 hours ago, randomsummer said:

It's not that you can't make profit, it's that the markets don't like uncertainty.  If they know a problem is coming and can plan for it, markets don't tank as badly.  Uncertainty is their kryptonite.

A pandemic is something that can easily be planned for but maintaining a framework of security, a level of preparedness for foreseeable (little uncertainty here) crises like a pandemic, or nature catastrophes, or climate change, or whatever, is expensive and doesn't generate short term profits for investors. The market doesn't work on the principle of fulfilling demands and needs primarily, as neoliberal propaganda keeps telling us, it works solely on the principle of generating profit for capital owners. Those demands that don't generate profit aren't fulfilled by natural market mechanisms, it's a lie. The market even manages to generate demand of things that aren't needed because this generates short term profit. Only political intervention can balance the problems that arise from this situation, but politicians more often than not seem uninterested in changing said situation, sometimes because they work in the service of the profiteers, sometimes because they hope to profit, too, or because neoliberal propaganda has turned them into useful idiots. We have an economic system that isn't thought out holistically, economy isn't thought as a form of society but merely as a machine that works uncoupled from the society it should serve.

Spoiler

 

[EdamAnchorman]

I agree that the whole system nowadays is geared toward short-term profit over long term gains, but that's not quite the whole story because no two pandemics are equal.  Some hit the primarily disadvantaged like ebola, some are only transmitted through exchange of certain bodily fluids like AIDS, etc.  Even if we had a robust pandemic plan, nobody could've predicted how this virus will act:  how fast it will spread and who will be the most at risk.  I think your statement that a pandemic is something that can be easily planned for is not correct, unless you're talking about stockpiling a ridiculous amount of medical equipment and maintaining huge hospitals and spending money for a vaccine to every possible virus out there which is all unreasonable.  To correctly plan for any pandemic wouldn't just be expensive as you claim, it would be impossible.

My point is that even if we had several pandemic plans, at this point nobody knows exactly how many people will lose their jobs.  Nobody knows how long the restaurant and hospitality sector will be in ruins, and even if people will feel comfortable going back to them in the same numbers when lockdown orders are lifted.  Nobody knows how long the airline sector will be in the toilet.  All of this uncertainty causes people to sell and try to buy back lower because they're chasing short-term gains, when they could've probably made more by just holding onto it and waiting for the market to go up again.  Even if we had a COVID pandemic plan and enough hospitals and a vaccine, etc., there are still unknowns that you can never know that will cause uncertainty in the market, like how fast this thing will mutate or how effective will the vaccine be.

I agree that the market is somewhat uncoupled from the reality of the people who make up the workforce of the companies that make up the market.  With all the recent jobless claims, the market should be shitting the bed right now.  The Fed probably should've let that happen but they didn't, probably because of what you said above about who they really serve and whose interests they're really trying to protect.  That being said, it still didn't stop me from buying a buttload of index funds after the first big crash in March.

Edited May 10, 2020 by randomsummer

[EdamAnchorman]

https://www.vox.com/covid-19-coronavirus-economy-recession-stock-market/2020/5/6/21248069/stock-market-economy-federal-reserve-jerome-powell

Quote

The economy is in free fall. So why isn’t the stock market?

Everything is bad, and yet somehow the stock market is good.

 

[drillkicker]

23 hours ago, cwmbrancity said:

and your post was 23hrs before my own. 23.

 

Its been 23 hours since you posted this

[Brisbot]

12 hours ago, ignatius said:

I watched The Big Short again the other day and ya just have to see it if you haven’t seen it. It’s staggering. The fraud. The big lies.

I've seen it, though I've kinda forgotten it (besides the economic stuff which has stuck in my mind sense) so maybe it's time to watch it again!

[Soloman Tump]

Stay Alert for the invisible virus that you won't know you've got for a week!

[ignatius]

24 minutes ago, Brisbot said:

I've seen it, though I've kinda forgotten it (besides the economic stuff which has stuck in my mind sense) so maybe it's time to watch it again!

it's really entertaining. some great performances. it's a great script with clever ways of breaking down certain ideas w/use of cameos etc. and it's just flabbergasting. 

[luke viia]

On 5/5/2020 at 10:51 AM, J3FF3R00 said:

If I were you, I'd call the sheriff if I saw 4 or more people hanging out without masks. 2 people without masks is 2 too many, so 4 is a public threat, IMO.

Fuck what anyone else thinks. The fact is that you actually give a shit. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Update on our park reopening: 

It's been crazy busy. And I've only seen one family wearing masks in the last five days. Our parking lot comfortably fits about 8 vehicles (it's a small park). On Saturday there were 27 vehicles here at one point, double parking, some rolling up through the grass field to get a spot. Through most of the day it was 14-16 cars. Didn't see a single mask. Mostly families. Way too many people are using the restroom (porta-potty thing) - there is no hand sanitizer (stolen at the beginning of the pandemic, I'm sure), it's basically just a disease box. I watched a woman with five kids head in there, come out, immediately wipe her nose with her hand, then walk up to one of her little boys and playfully grab both his hands. If there was a way to lock that thing, I would, but short of hauling it away there isn't much I can do.

27 cars is busier than usual for this time of year. It was well over 50 people. Thing is, it was a bunch of small groups, not an organized event, so the law says it's okay afaik. I asked our managers what the "crowds close parks" sign means in practice, and I was told it's just a slogan, that I shouldn't worry about it too much. 

Considering the sling of stories about people in the US being shot, stabbed and spit on for trying to enforce social distancing, I'm apprehensive about trying to intervene or approach anyone. I basically have to keep the blinds closed so I don't have an anxiety attack looking at the mass of parkgoers. Like I mentioned in my last post, I have no real authority here. I took pictures of the crowd yesterday, maybe I just need to send them to the governor's office... 

My girlfriend went to a little store downtown yesterday to pick up some stuff she's been putting off buying. She said the streets were full of people, and she was the only one with a mask. I'll be shocked if there isn't a spike in cases this month. 

It's difficult to come to any conclusion other than that humanity is too impatient and stupid to survive. 

update: there are over 30 vehicles here now. I called the PD for guidance...waiting for a call back.

edit: 40 vehicles now. the cops basically shrugged, they aren't moving people. cool. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by luke viia

[zkom]

I just had a 6 hour train ride with every seat booked even in the first class. RIP me.

[ghsotword]

40 minutes ago, luke viia said:

update: there are over 30 vehicles here now. I called the PD for guidance...waiting for a call back.

edit: 40 vehicles now. the cops basically shrugged, they aren't moving people. cool. 

Could you play music that would drive the people away? Like a 30 second Christmas song snippet on loop for the whole day. You'd have to have noise cancelling headphones for yourself of course

[ghsotword]

or earplugs or something

[sweepstakes]

That's disappointing. That's kind of what I'm seeing over here, too, though. Is there a way to shock or disgust people into looking after their own interests? I hate to take a cue from this guy, but there was an obnoxious pro-life protester who used to come to my college's campus with giant photos of aborted fetuses. Then again, all it really did was gross people out and piss them off. Hm.

[ignatius]

6 minutes ago, sweepstakes said:

That's disappointing. That's kind of what I'm seeing over here, too, though. Is there a way to shock or disgust people into looking after their own interests?

sadly i think when a person or persons they know get sick and or die they'll wake up a little but that's not even a guarantee. 

it seems pretty certain that there will be a bi gspike in cases here in theUSA w/more hospitalizations and deaths. the protests alone will be responsible for more cases.. all it takes is one or two asymptomatic people, or people infected but unaware, in the mix and poof.. another cluster of cases. 

[luke viia]

3 hours ago, ghsotword said:

Could you play music that would drive the people away? Like a 30 second Christmas song snippet on loop for the whole day. You'd have to have noise cancelling headphones for yourself of course

i actually thought about this, lol. Was thinking of some polka or zydeco, but xmas tunes would do the trick. or maybe merzbow. I've got a 3hr set around here somewhere...

topped out at 42 cars in the lot today. covidiot party. 

[ignatius]

Ding ding ding