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TWIN PEAKS

Candiru

By Candiru
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cichlisuite Grand Master

cichlisuite

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the gloved boy wonder. such a cop out. one of many, imo. but hey, lynch's genius and all. it got people wondering what the fuck was going on, so it must be genius, right?

 

to me it looked like a bunch of half developed ideas, with an attempt to make it interesting by mixing different timelines and dream vs. reality scenarios. i'm sure it's going to make more sense when you can tell which scenes belong in which timeline, or which reality. like in mulholland drive. but there's so much inconsequential stuff going on, i'm not even interested anymore. the couple of drug addicts sitting at the huge tree, where the guy put a bullet in his brain, for instance. completely inconsequential characters. no emotional connection whatsoever. should i root for them? does the scene have a deeper meaning? (and by deeper, i mean deeper than the "history repeating itself in different generations" motive)

 

or the poor attempts of tarantino dialogues with the tim roth/jennifer jason leigh characters. poor execution, imo. lynch used to be better at dialogues. this was just bland and inconsequential. 

 

sometimes even blatant fan-service. perhaps by intention. but really, does intent make up for execution? i wonder.

 

sure, it was tv like nothing else. but being different doesn't make it good. the acting was often piss poor. the shots were beautiful at times though. i'll give it that. that 8th episode was noteworthy and as far as i'm concerned well executed. even though the novelty is debatable. in the end you'd be better off with kubrick's 2001, imo. so if it's "like nothing else" depends mostly on your frame of reference.

 

the sound design was a strong point. to the point where it could almost carry the story. if not for the cringeworthy acting/dialogues. 

 

the most novel thing about the return was the meta thing where the 4th wall was kind of broken due to actors being actually near the end of their lives. creating a mix of reality and fiction. sometimes making you wonder whether people were commenting on eachother on a different level than the fictional story.

 

creative? sure! well executed? i think not. sorry. i didnt fall for its charm. and feel lynch used to be better at this. i recognise the effort that went into stringing together the different timelines/realities. and i'm sure a second viewing will improve when you know which scene belongs where. but i'm fairly certain that wouldn't make up for the execution, or the last minute efforts to converge the story "hey albert, you know about that thing a kept from you from the last 25 years? well, i tell you now and it's important so there...here's your story out of nowhere". in other words: another green glove falling out of the sky into the story. this hasn't got anything to do with missing a logical storyline. this is similar to telling a superhero story where each new problem is solved by introducing a new superpower. there comes a point where you can expect the proverbial rabbit out of the hat at any twist and turn. it kills any tension. (wanna arm-wrestle with bad coop? oooh exciting! i wonder what will happen....surprise!!!)

 

sorry for my rant (yeah that fucking guy again). suck it fanbois.

 

I appreciate you elaborated you view, you rant is substantiated. There were some weird holes that weren't very clear. However, what I got out of it, was probably only due to literature I've been studying in the last couple of years which kind of explained to me certain scenes. I'm not saying there is some intellectual prerequisite needed in order to understand, it's just that since I've been into that, a lot more things make sense to me in life (basically everything people think or do). So, my view here might be biased, as was confirmed by several talks with people IRL about TwinPeaks that are unable to share my views, exclusively, unfortunately, because of the fact that this is supposed to be a mainstream work (of art) and shouldn't be so obscured. I tend not to agree on that (as it's not even a point to make, although I let them go with it) simply because there is way too much holding hands of viewers in general, particularly when it comes to films (or series). ((yeah I know, they have to make money)) However, you don't seem to have this sort of watering down when it comes to paintings for instance. An abstract painting is there, and its up to its viewer whether he/she likes it or not. And you don't have to explain it either, because it evokes certain feelings inside you that are your own, and by all means don't explain them, for they lose their substance trying to describe it with words. Now that is only an analogy to support my point.

 

What I believe Lynch tried to achieve here was to convey fundamental feelings and concepts of fear, love, attraction, friendship, death, life, hate, etc... And they are all there. The characters themselves inhibit all of them (Gordon, Cooper) and some of them have only bad concepts in order to convey what happens when you let go of your purpose and you lose your inner compass so to speak. They are all present in our society. Some go live that road right down to the end (Roth and Leigh characters, Richard Horne), some are aware of their past and make the best out of it (brothers Horne), some are right at the doorstep but lack the strength and guidance (the meth-head young couple), some are bright and childish and make use of whatever means to enjoy social respect and power (Mitchum brothers), etc etc. Now the foremost characters here are Cooper, who is basically going through all the processes, is able to see things as they are, and is willing to explore them: he is a sort of Odysseus in this, he is the vehicle for the plot, he is able to choose. The other one is Hawk. Now here, unfortunately, he is not as a developed character as he could be, but he is there, and he understands. He has that perfect courage. He is wise. What happens is that Cooper was afraid in the lodge (previous seasons) and that had its consequences. He did not face his fear completely. He giant is the dweller on the threshold who tries to influence the events out of white lodge, there is also the long-nosed creature who is similar, but tries to influence out of the black lodge. The giant saw the irrepairable happening: namely Cooper could go down the 'dark' path or 'white' path. And he did both, in fact. So his dark side materialized as Bad Cooper, but his 'remains' were captured in the lodge, and the giant further influenced the events by taking another vehicle for him (Dougie) and the rest is known. A lot of Jungian stuff is here, basically all of his subconscious concepts are here, and I believe it was one of the main subjects Lynch worked out of. His form might be complicated, but that is what he chose. And since you kind of compared it to Kubrick's 2001, these are similar things indeed. However, Kubrick was more general and addressed the species of mankind and its one-sided development (technology), and Lynch is going more into the meat of it; the everyday person. These two views are the same, just as nature is in terms of fractals (things look similar if you map them across scales and dimensions).

 

The form Lynch decided to take was quite spot on, although cryptic. There is a lot of staring blankly for instance. But these are (I believe) moments when a person is deeply in connection with his subconscience, when he is judging good or bad, dealing with feelings, trying to comprehend some inner jitters or whatever. You have seen it and experienced it, if not, you must be some kind of android:) There are forces of nature involved which are fascinating to science and spirit and are building blocks of either (electricity)....

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goDel Grand Master

goDel

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thanks godwin, thats actually a good response. will think about it.

 

 

 

so lynch has become the new george lucas indeed. just enjoy the prequels for what they are.

 

dont remember older lynch stuff having swiss cheese level plotholes. plotholes in the previous tp seasons? second season went of the trial for a bit. but that's different to plot holes. i dont remember many plotholes in the first season of tp. nor do i remember lynch needing his characters to have superpowers to keep a story going.

 

guess my conclusion is that lynch went down the lucas hole and turned tp into a superhero franchise.

 

Remember the fake soap opera in the original series? And how events in it were sometimes in parallel with events taking place in the show?

Are you aware this was included because at the time Soap Operas ruled TV Land.

 

What currently rules film and TV land?

 

 

remember how that soap opera wasn't actually part of the story, but was mostly used to set the tone and gave a sense of where lynch was coming from with tp? it brought a sense of irony. but not to the extent that the story itself became obsolete.

 

tp3 went three steps further by actually drawing the hulk into the seasons finale (ok it was the 17th episode, but arguably the finale). those soap opera clips didn't involve the plot, right? now the plot seems largely driven by superhero's (super evil coop, gloved hulk, evil sarah and some good coop coming out of some proverbial coma in a way such that it was all planned out). i think that's a big difference. and, imo, a serious issue.

 

but that's just repeating myself. i guess i get the impression a lot of you just assume i'm scared of black boxes or don't understand art or something. well, i guess that means there's no room to argue at all, isn't it? that means any criticism has become invalid.

 

and that's exactly why i appreciate godwin's response, btw. we don't have to agree. but at least there's more to it than: "well, you just don't understand."

 

i did appreciate the 18th episode more than the 17th btw. the 18th was more close to the lynch i expected. the 17th episode was useless sell out stuff. (lucy shooting evil coop out of nowhere and hey, did frank's hat blocked evil coops bullet or something?)

 

you can interpret it like those soap opera snippets from the initial series, but that's really stretching it, imo. if that's the case, you could edit tp3 back to 8 episodes and actually have a good tp3 without all the inconsequential crap. because lets just admit it: those soap snippets actually were inconsequential in the original series.

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QQQ Mentor

QQQ

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All of you people who keep saying how the show is bad, etc... I don't think you've ever seen a David Lynch film before.

 

You may have watched a David Lynch film, but you haven't seen a David Lynch film.

 

You're watching it wrong.

LOL

 

way to stink up the thread with an elitist attitude guys

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Dpek Mentor

Dpek

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As much as I really enjoyed the whole season 3, I agree that there were some deus ex machina moments, especially with the Green Glove guy. But I think this is why the last two episodes are so important - all neatly planned plots are connected in E17 for the final showdown and then Lynch and Frost say: ok, this is what all TV shows try to do, connect everything in a final showdown with deus ex machina moments, but this is all fiction ("We live in a dream") and bam! - we get E18 of pure confusing reality without resolutions.

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MadameChaos Grand Master

MadameChaos

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I've found two very much opposed viewpoints on the series, both well thought out and and reasoned through.

 

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/7/17/15980296/twin-peaks-episode-10-recap-the-return-misogyny

 

http://www.refinery29.uk/2017/07/163907/twin-peaks-misogyny-sexist-richard-part-10

 

do you guys have any thoughts on these? i'm leaning towards the vox view.

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eugene Grand Master

eugene

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the vox article i'm not sure about, i don't think that twin peaks is really consciously concerned about anything socially relevant. you do get to see some cynicism here and there about the state of the world, but i really doubt lynch is interested in making some kind of social statement about violence against women.

the refinery article is just fucking dumb. nevertheless, it's easy to see that lynch does use this "damsel in distress"/violence against women trope very often, without realizing it and without realizing the possible repercussions i think. that video series anita sarkeesian did around the whole gamergate thing about gender tropes in video games was very good (at least the few videos i've watched) and i think it would be a much more fitting gender related critique for recent twin peaks as well. 

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